What's the deal with criticism of women's bodies here?

[SarahB]

There's either the (I'm simplifying this highly I realize):"Women with big boobs are fake, slutty, and stupid" threads or "Skinny chicks suck. Give me a woman with meat on their bones" threads.

I'm sorry, but give me a f*cking break. Just because a women is built in a certain way doesn't mean she's fake. If she is, why is it such a big deal? It's the same thing with slimmer women because some people just have a metabolism that burns things off quickly and there's not much they can do. Seem to me in terms of women, there are too many men here who can't say they appreciate what they appreciate without insulting someone who looks different.

I have an idea. How about those of us who like men can pick a particular feature about them and insult those who are different? We can start with hairy chests. If you like hairy chested men, you can call non-hairy chest men "bald chested freaks" and if you don't like hairy chested men, you can call the ones with hairy chests "monkey-like freaks". How's that for a start? Would men like this? (Oh, I guess I should take a joke, right?)

I'm just fed up with continually seeing the bodies and body parts of my gender (all body types) analyzed and picked apart. I'm not uptight or a prude by any stretch of the imagination. I love it when a man finds me physically attractive especially if I have feelings for the guy on other levels. There's just a point sometimes when I think men just don't get it.

[sendero]

1. Men say...

.... lots of things on a message board that they would never say in real life.

I don't make a habit of commenting in those threads, but sometimes I do. When it is a celebrity, I enjoy taking a potshot because IMHO 99% of them deserve to be taken down a notch or two. THEY set themselves up as standards of beauty, THEY "invest" billions on plastic surgery, why can I not critique the result?


It's not intended to be directed at you or women in general in any way.

Oh, and as for your idea about men's appearance, by all means. I'm certainly not going to take it personally, you've never met me :)

[liontamer]

10. "Men say

.... lots of things on a message board that they would never say in real life. "

That may be true, but a lot of men do judge and demean women in the exact same way in "real life"

I know the message board isn't the same forum as dinner with your mother, but the fact that people say these things here at all is still a real issue

[sendero]

12. It might be ...

... more effective for one to reply to offensive posts directly, these blanket indictments are pretty hard to answer because there is little specificity.

However, folks who hope to participate in a message board or real life and never hear anything that offends them are well beyond unreasonable.

[rene moon]

2. I nominate this as post of the day

I am in 100% agreement.

[smbolisnch]

3. Right on sister ;)

:yourock: Kicked and nominated, damnit!

[plcdude]

4. It is has been my

practice to withhold evaluation of another individual in terms of attractiveness or not until I have had the chance to listen to them talk. It is surprising how some of the so-called traditionally attractive people upon opening their mouths become not so attractive.

[sendero]

13. Let's not forget..

... vice versa :)

[plcdude]

16. agreed

some people I find very attractive would not be deemed physically attractive by superficial standards

[Amaya]

5. 100% Agree!

Men equate a woman's worth by what her tits and ass look like. I'm not saying ALL men, but A LOT do. It's a sad reality.

[sendero]

15. If we're going to be the ..

... speech police, I'll have to ticket you with a violation.

You said "men" when you surely meant to say "some men".

:evilgrin:

[Amaya]

28. Of course only "some men"

:P

[Iris]

So? Why do you give them power by being concerned how they

equate someone's worth? How does it affect you other than how you ALLOW it to affect you?

[edbermac]

6. Most of them are probably said tongue-in-cheek...

I'm sure a lot of women would posts threads about Rush Limbaugh and rag his appearance...

[liontamer]

8. but nobody ever does.

[Dora]

19. You're right, but countless keystrokes are wasted

...wasted on tearing apart how that stupid Coulter bitch looks! On how she LOOKS for chrissake.

[arcane1]

27. indeed, as if there isn't enough about her to complain about

and in truth, if Ann were a liberal, those same people would be bending over backwards to praise how attractive she is :eyes:

[StopTheMorans]

7. agree with your whole post, but your first line in particular really sums

up a good deal of the flamefests in the lounge and how ridiculous they are. Thanks Sarah:D

[ohiosmith]

9. Pics please.

[dr.strangelove]

18. Are you seriously looking for pics of SarahBelle?

Where have you been? There probably have been more pics of SarahBelle posted from various BBQ's, or by herself, than most other DUers.

By the way, that was very well said SarahBelle. A person is attracted to different things. My insane attraction to redheads may seem strange to some, but that is who I am. I married a girl with red hair who I think is the most beautiful women I have ever met. Maybe someone else would think I am crazy, but that is what I am attracted to. Weight is not as big an issue for me as it is for some. Is there something wrong with me. My best friend is really into flat abs. His girlfriends have all had washboard stomachs. Thats not my thing, but it is his. Don't judge.

Btw ohiosmith. SarahBelle is a BABE!! (I hope you don't mind my compliment SarahBelle, no offense intended with the term "BABE").

[SarahB]

37. Not offended at all.

I like being a babe to a large degree. :7

Yeah, it's like you said. We all have our "things" we find attractive or not attractive. It's just about not insulting those you don't or completely stereotyping someone based upon their appearance.

[arcane1]

11. agreed

and sadly, many women do it too :(

[Amaya]

14. "many women do it too "

Agreed!

[Iris]

23. That was going to be my comment. In real life, I've noticed most men

appreciate a variety of different body types.

It's we women who seem to be "married" to the sterotypes our fashion and beauty magazines try to dictate to us.

[redqueen]

17. Very interesting observation, Sarah

Yes it seems too often it's not good enough to say what one likes, one seems to want to disparage what they don't like. I really don't understand that.

[SarahB]

24. That's the point.

I think it can go vice versa as well. If a man says, "I find curvy females attractive." doesn't mean it's the only thing he appreciates in a women.

OTOH, I'm never going to be a size 2 and have to work hard to maintain my medium sized weight. If a man out there says, "I like very slim women" (or alternately a very heavy woman), it's just his preference and it doesn't make me less valuable as a person because I don't fit that standard either.

I have a type of man I'm attracted too, but I'm not so shallow as to base appearance as the only thing. I doubt most men (especially around here) are that shallow either, it's just a preference. One doesn't need to insult what may perhaps be the opposite of their preference or take it as an insult if they don't fit the standard of what someone on a message board has as a preference.

[WilliamPitt]

20. You're just saying that because you're a hottie

:)

*ducking, fleeing, agreeing*

[plcdude]

21. So is Redqueen

you can tell every time she writes something.

[SarahB]

43. I'll kick your ass for saying that.

But thanks. :D

[jswordy]

22. MEN ARE PIGS!!!

Women love to hear that from a guy! Heh.

[rene moon]

25. They are!

;-)

[pdx_prog]

26. The only thing I find unattractive....

about a woman, or a man is when they don't care enough about themselves to eat right, exercise and take a shower!

I love all body types and do not really favor one over the other....it's a combination of looks, personality, and brains that make a person attractive to me.

[RagingInMiami]

29. I like skinny women with big boobs

But if they have a shitty personality, then I find them unattractive.

[48pan]

30. Personally, I never criticize women's bodies...

I worship many of them.

[jpgray]

31. Finally, skinny women with big breasts have a champion

I've seen DUers ridicule fake breasts, and I have seen DUers express sorrow at women who are severely underweight. Skinny women and women with big boobs don't seem to draw much fire.

And sure you can criticize and stereotype the bodies of men all you want--it won't bother me a bit.

edit: It seems to me that people do have tastes when it comes to aesthetics, and there will be likes and dislikes. I don't see how posting one's opinion on such things is wrong.

[SarahB]

32. It's not wrong to have an opinion.

What is wrong is disparaging someone else that doesn't fit one's preference or narrowly pigeonholing someone's character based upon merely external features.

Also, perhaps if one has been a women who has been asked if one has fake breasts when said topic is neither valid nor appropriate by 99% of those who asked the question, admittedly, one can be a little sensitive to the subject.

[jpgray]

47. I guess I don't equate judgment on appearance with judgment on the person

Judging appearance in isolation has nothing in my mind to do with judging the person. A person can look trashy without really being trashy, and a person can look sophisticated without being sophisticated.

As for asking someone whether their hair, breasts or whatever is fake--that is very rude, but celebrities have been fodder for such conversations for a long time. I've never seen a thread of outrage directed at those who mock William Shatner or Marv Albert for their rugs.

[SarahB]

51. Ok, that point is taken.

Shatner's hair is um...yes.... interesting. :D

[Taverner]

33. Sneeches. I'm thinking sneeches.

[SarahB]

38. Whatcho talkin' 'bout, Tav?

[Taverner]

52. The Dr. Seuss Sneeches

Star Bellied Sneeches hate Plain bellied ones, and vice versa, until they all get switched...bizarre ref I know but somehow i was inspired...

[Zomby Woof]

34. Afuckingmen!!!!

It's the kind of shit that drives me nuts about this place. Juvenile, SHALLOW, and just fucking mean.

Gimme a brain and a sense of humor, and I am INTO the woman, no matter what.

[mr_hat]

35. Never mind the um... you know? >

Shallow though I may be, I find that rather seals the deal.

[Schema Thing]

36. But Sarah, women are every bit as eager

to do the same to men's assorted body characteristics.

Seems it's just a human trait, though I'd agree it's not a particularly attractive one.

[ET Awful]

39. I don't care what's she's built like, as long as it's real :)

As long as there isn't an overabundance of silicone or saline implantation, I'm happy :).

I prefer that a woman at least make the effort to be healthy (as in not let herself become dangerously thin or dangerously obese) more because it's a health risk than any other reason.

I mean, you'll see me insult Coulter, but hey, she's Coulter, she must be insulted, it's kind of required :)

[leftofthedial]

40. give me an honest one with brains and a sense of humor

and let's leave it at that

[bigwillq]

41. Sarah,

:yourock: and so does your body!

I like you just the way you are!:hug:

[jonnyblitz]

44. she is a hottie

:thumbsup:

[bigwillq]

46. Yes she is!

:)

[Bullwinkle925]

42. I agree totally. Sitting here listening to Smokey sing

"I Love Your Face" without any mention of any other body part.
A gentleman.

[jpgray]

49. And women with hideous faces?

I guess I don't see how being superficial about one body part beats out being superficial about another.

[Bullwinkle925]

53. We

don't mind hearing about our minds or 'faces' - just leave the boobs, butts out of it.
TYVM

[Lorien]

45. I've made the mistake of posting

that all the men who answered my profile on a online dating site were older than me (sometimes considerably) obese, bald, and often short. They also listed "extremely attractive by society's standards" as one of their MUSTS for prospective mates. Several men on this site were taken aback when I said that I wasn't attracted to men like the ones who had approached me on that dating site (though the irony of the online men's demand for a hot young date didn't seem to ruffle many feathers). Moral; it's best not to voice a preference!

[Bertha Venation]

50. Lesbians, too, sometimes are "picky," to put it kindly, about the

type of bodies they want to date. I have two anecdotes.

1. The Lesbian News, a community rag in So. Cal., once printed a letter ranting against fat lesbians. The author, Anonymous, complained that fat lesbians were lazy -- that's why they're fat -- and were giving the community at large a bad name by perpetuating a stereotype. On the cover of the next issue was this headline: "Readers weigh in against fat phobe." Mine was the first letter they printed.

2. In 1995 I placed a personal ad in the LN. I got 38 calls and 2 dates (with two different people) out of it. Yes, I did keep track, although I don't know why. All of the callers asked what I looked like. All but one specifically asked, in various ways, about my "body type." Of those 37, 34 said "thanks but no thanks" when they learned I was obese. Of the other three, one said, "Well, I can help you learn to work out, but the diet is up to you." *click* One said, "Hmm, how much DO you weigh." Unflinching, I told her. After a brief silence, her voice got cutsey and she said, "So, maybe by our first date you will have lost 5 pounds, and by our second, another five . . . " *click*

All the men I dated before coming out (that's not a euphemism for "had sex with;" I am a gold medal dyke) never cared that I was obese. The three women I have dated (that is a euphemsism) never cared that I was obese.

I think it's universal: lots of men are assholes about fat women, and lots of women are assholes about fat women.

:shrug: just my two cents.

[NightTrain]

48. Hmm.... I must have been ignoring those threads.

I've dated women that society would consider physically unattractive, or even ugly. I dated those women, and sometimes endured derision for it, because they were good people with kind hearts.

Sure, it's great when a woman is good-looking, but that has never been, nor will it ever be, my main criterion for deciding whether or not a woman is right for me. Besides, as an overweight guy whose hair has been falling out since age 20, I hardly think I'm in a position to judge a woman on her looks!

Or, as The Temptations soulfully put it:

So in love, sad as can be,
'cause her pretty face got the best of me.
Suddenly, you came into my life,
and gave it meaning and pure delight.
Now, good looks i've learned to do without,
'cause now I know it's love that really counts!

Beauty's only skin deep, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Beauty's only skin deep, oh yeah!

Now, you speak your words warm and clear,
that lets me know your love is sincere.
A pretty face you may not possess,
but what I like about it is your tenderness.
A pretty face may be some guys taste,
but I'll take true lovin' in its place.

Beauty's only skin deep, yeah, yeah, yeah!
Beauty's only skin deep, oh yeah!

My friends ask what do I see in you,
but it goes deeper than the eye can view.
You have a pleasin' personality,
and that's an ever-lovin rare quality.
Now, show me a girl, a girl thats fine,
and I'll choose the one with true lovin everytime.

Beauty's only skin deep, yeah, yeah, yeah!
Beauty's only skin deep, oh yeah!

So if you're lookin' for a lover,
don't judge a book by its cover.
She may be fine on the outside,
but so untrue on the inside.

Beauty's only skin deep, yeah, yeah, yeah!
Beauty's only skin deep, oh yeah!

[Bok_Tukalo]

54. Bald chested freak?

There's just no pleasing some people.

[Nikia]

55. As you know, I agree with you

Very good post.