You don't think it's right to let 12 y.o.'s dry hump on the dance floor?

[redqueen]

What are you, the TALIBAN?!

:eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. My spider sense says you're venting from a GD or LBN thread.

Come forth, give us the link.

[LynzM]

2. Oh yes, definitely a vent

I don't have the link at the moment, but there were people who were saying it's like 'the 50s all over again', etc.

[Squatch]

3. LBN...subject has "Freaking" in the title

[redqueen]

4. Here ya go!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1137533

[kick-ass-bob]

5. awww come on! Elvis did it!

:P

[auburngrad82]

9. I don't think Elvis ground it against another person.

I think that's what it's referring to. You can shake yer groove thang, you just can't rub it against anyone.

[kick-ass-bob]

51. satire, sir.

satire.

[auburngrad82]

77. Exactly, Bob

:D

I'm not taking issue with you. I'm just adding my own little twisted take on the Elvis angle.

[auburngrad82]

75. Delete

Self Delete

[WoodrowFan]

88. um

didn't Elvis have kids? I mean, it had to grind it against what's her name at least once!! :p

[DrWeird]

6. I, for one, am sick of this tolerance of expression!

Tolerance for expression is morally disgusting!!

[redqueen]

7. Yeah!

Kids in middle school dry humping is artistic expression!

[wtmusic]

18. I'll just bet

none of the people who believe in 'artistic expression' have kids. IOW, they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

[plcdude]

8. so how do you really

feel about it?

[redqueen]

10. I think that children who are not of age to give consent

should not be allowed to simulate sex acts on the dance floor.

Apparently some here are confusing the twist with the crotch grinding that today really IS a simulated sex act.

I don't know if people here are really old or really stupid, but the stuff going on out there today is NOT the twist, the funky chicken, or even the Elvis hip thrust (if you recall, there was not a girl shoving her a** up against Elvis' pelvis as he trust and gyrated).

[plcdude]

14. My world is the university

but over the last 20 years I have watched dancers get closer and closer and more anonymous into a mass of people dancing and grinding against each other with little or no regard for other people. It looks like mass masturbation. At the college level I don't feel I have any right to protest but below that age level it just needs to be confronted as inappropriate.

[redqueen]

15. Age level seems to be a line of demarcation

that some liberals would like to do away with altogether.

[JVS]

11. I don't think children should dance at all

It over-excites them and exacerbates their natural clumsiness

[htuttle]

13. I agree

Plus, it could lead to smoking.

[underpants]

12. That's odd they teach HOW TO oral sex in 5th grade around here

My wife's coworker's son just had the HOW TO class last week and this is the OoooLD Dominion for crying out loud.

[redqueen]

16. That's odd.

How to?

[underpants]

34. Yep full out how to including using condoms

They condom part of course is good but they apparently got a complete description of how to do it. This was part of "Abstinence training" that the parents didn't find out about until just before the Christmas break.

BAM! time to have THE talk.

[redqueen]

57. hahahaha

"abstinence training"... yeah... how'd that work out I wonder?

IMO third grade is time to have THE talk. Kids are WAY oversexualized these days.

[no name no slogan]

83. True, this, but 3rd grade is probably too late

Believe it or not, I first learned about sex when I was five years old, from the neighbor kid who had a teenage older brother. So did the rest of my neighborhood friends, too. Interestingly enough, about half of them ended up being parents before they graduated highschool.

IMHO we need to teach these kids about sex when they first become aware that girls and boys are different. It doesn't need to be graphic or a "how-to" guide, but at least teach them that it's not something strange or shameful and that it's perfectly normal-- at the right age/time.

I agree re: the grinding sh!t. Just because kids "can" do it in a back seat of a car or under the bleachers doesn't mean we should be encouraging them to do it on a (public) dance floor-- especially at junior high age. Most kids' psyches are still being formed then, and sexual activity can only fsck it up more.

It's not a "civil liberties" thing-- it's about the kids' mental health. Do it for them, NOT because it's "prudish".

[patcox2]

81. How did you hear this, Underpants? Sounds fishy.

I have done a lot of research on sex ed for policy courses (research paper on the complete ineffectiveness of abstinence only ed.).

From my research, I got the impression that the idea that 10 year olds are taught how to use condoms and give blowjobs is largely a myth, something right wingers spread around to scare parents into calling for the banning of all sex ed.

Are you sure of the source of this?

[plcdude]

21. perhaps

this is going a little to far don't you think?

[Bertha Venation]

17. Sexual freedom of expression -- for CHILDREN?!

The pervs are lining up, I tell you. :eyes:

I'm w/ you, redqueen.

[Squatch]

19. Dancing is about sex.

http://www.aviary.org/curric/sociallives.htm

[Lex]

22. For 11 and 12 year olds to be dry humping?

This is not dancing--sorry.

[redqueen]

23. It's natural, though!

And if you don't let them dry hump at school dances, they'll just go home and do it for real, so might as well let them go wild, right?

[plcdude]

25. speaking of dry humping

is it as good for women as it is for men. Clean up is the one drawback though.

[the Princess]

40. Yes it is and as an adult I'm all for it

But for children - it's innapropriate. JMHO

[redqueen]

20. Yeah

Sick, innit?

[redqueen]

24. Yeah, cheerleading is just as bad as freak dancing, right?

:wtf:

[cally]

26. I'm with you

I can't believe anyone who is arguing for allowing kids to dry hump on the dance floor has any concept of what freak dancing is. 13 year old girls are giving lap dances to 13 year old boys. Kids are seen as prudes if they don't want to participate. Do you really think it's OK for kids to orgasm in public?

[KittyWampus]

84. There Were Only 2 Posters Defending It. And They're Both Probably

25 year old losers who can't get a date.

[gpandas]

27. up to child's parent, period.

[plcdude]

28. that obviously

is not working or relevant. What goes on in your administrative oversight is your responsibility.

[gpandas]

30. children should be taught proper behavior at home...

why do so many of you leap to the slim chance that your offspring's behavior is the fault of something other than you?

[JVS]

32. And they should be held to proper behavior at school

Just because the parents are supposed to teach proper behavior doesn't mean that the schools should be expected to stand back and let the kids demonstrate that they've failed to heed their parents

[gpandas]

36. you just don't get it...

the parents are the ones who set the rules from the moment the child is born. i gotta' say that if someones child is going to be an asshole, it will not be a school rule about dancing that keeps him from being one.

[JVS]

37. Fine, let the kid be an asshole elsewhere

Rules are not made for the benefit of the assholes, they're for the benefit of everyone else

[redqueen]

29. Well this is an issue because a high school is banning

that type of dancing at school dances. So... while the teenagers are at school, it's kind of up to the school.

If a parent wants their kids to be able to do this they can take them to underage night clubs or something.

[gpandas]

41. i know, i'm looking for an arguement n/t

[Susang]

45. You actually have to have one to do that.

:evilgrin:

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. Ummm..... no, I don't, actually.

:shrug:

[Solly Mack]

33. I'm what some might call "old fashion" about certain things

dry humping on the floor during a middle school dance would be one of those things

It's a big no-no.

[redqueen]

35. I goofed... it's a high school dance, not middle school, so

I should have said '14 year olds' in the thread title.

[Wapsie B]

39. Still......

I don't agree with teens doing that either. Especially at a school dance.

[DrWeird]

42. And 18 and 17 year olds.

I mean, if you were wanting to be honest.

[rene moon]

43. Sorry, but this is at school

If they are at a school function, no matter what age, 14-18, it's inappropriate.

Besides, I stopped going to school dances my junior year--it was moslty for the younger crowd at my school

[Maddy McCall]

47. No, the homecoming dance and Sadie Hawkins dances include...

kids as young as 13 and 14. It's NOT just 17 and 18 year olds.

Sex is fine, for adults, in private. Personally, I don't want to see it on the dance floor ANYWHERE. Suggestive dancing is fine. Simulated sex isn't.

[redqueen]

52. How am I not being honest?

You seek to highlight those least impacted... why?

[Midlodemocrat]

62. But middle schoolers are 'grinding' at dances as well

It is really shocking, some of the kids that I have known since they were babies behaving that way. One of the big reasons I chaperone, so I can keep an eye on my own children. Although, I have been instructed not to EVER talk to them when they are dancing.

[redqueen]

68. Why am I not surprised?

I can understand the never talk to me while dancing thing, but I'm sure you'd break that rule in a heartbeat if you'd seen your son or daughter engaging in this type of 'dancing'.

[Midlodemocrat]

82. I would break more than the rule

...just kidding. But, I would have a flaming fit if I saw either one of them, one boy, one girl engaging in that. Fortunately, they think it is wrong to do that, so, so far, I am safe. At least until the next dance.

[Solly Mack]

80. Wouldn't change anything for me

I expect a certain behavior during a school dance and emulating sex on the dance floor isn't it.

I grew up dancing. It's a very big part of my culture. However, what was allowed at home in terms of dance moves and what was allowed in school were 2 different things. We could practice moves at home we were not allowed to perform in public places. Especially not in school.

I danced as I pleased in clubs...but by then I was an adult...or at least "old enough" :)

[noshenanigans]

38. Personally I find the Electric Slide much more harmful.

When Iiiii was a kid, people did the Running Man and we were better off for it. Now get off my lawn, you kids.

[Guaranteed]

44. I'm with ya, redqueen.

12 is a little on the young side for that kind of thing.

High school- maybe. Still not really "appropriate," but definitely more understandable.

[Maddy McCall]

46. Wait. Aren't we the party that cares about sexual harrassment?

But people here at DU are saying that it's ok for kids to feel each other up and to simulate sex on the dance floor?

Hell, why even bother to teach them that they should respect their own and other people's bodies? Let's just abolish sexual harrassment laws--hell, these kids who are attempting to "express their sexuality" will just turn into adults who "attempt to express their sexuality" by grabbing the sexual organs of others at the workplace. Nothing wrong with that! We are the permissive party. And, while we are at it, let's abolish any laws prohibiting rape and molestation! After all, that's all just free expression.

Taken to the logical extreme....

:shrug:

(I saw the other thread...I agree with YOU, RQ.)

[DrWeird]

49. Funny definition of sexual harassment you're working with.

Is the tango sexual harassment too?

[Maddy McCall]

54. I take it you've never seen kids freaking.

I have. It's disgusting. I've seen college students do it. I can't imagine watching 13 year olds doing it.

I love that you try to deflect any arguments against simulated sex dancing by saying that some form of past dancing was akin to freaking.

WRONG.

I personally don't think you've ever seen anyone freak. Everything that goes on in sex goes on in freaking. The only difference is that clothes are on during freaking.

The tango is NOTHING like freaking.

[dr.strangelove]

48. Scary things happen over there in GD

I learned my lesson last week. I posted a response to a man who thought any restriction on free expression is an attack on the bedrock of freedom. I thought laws prohibiting child porn were fine and told him why. Wow that hurt. I got my ass burned with replies.

GD is very scary. I try to stay in the lounge, forums and that fun other site, where it is safe. Only go into GD with some thick skin and protection.

[flvegan]

63. Isn't that where we are now? Oh, wait...

[redqueen]

69. Oh I don't venture into GD now at all... this is from LBN.

[fujiyama]

85. They had debates

on the earthquake and tusnami being caused by "super weapons" on GD, so I'm not surprised that there was an argument on whether it's OK or not to allow masturbation with clothes on at a school sponsored event. Sometimes people start arguing over the most idiotic pointless shit you could find.

I'm no prude (and in fact I favor more effective sex ed programs rather than "abstinence only" nonsense) and don't give a fuck what any consenting adult is doing in their home, but I don't see why my taxes should support school sponsored events where horny kids can jerk off with their clothes on.

That's pretty much what this "freak dancing" shit is all about. Now, I go to clubs sometimes, and it really doesn't really bother me what anyone does in a privately owned dance club. Dance clubs aren't meant as educational institutions. My taxes aren't supporting a dance club but my taxes are supporting public schools and I would prefer that my money actually goes toward educating kids.

[Bouncy Ball]

50. I laugh at these threads.

I live in middle schools. A lot of the people saying this is not a big deal have obviously not seen actual "freak dancing."

Ever seen a 12 year old girl bend over and jiggle her butt cheeks just so with her legs spread apart while POINTING to her crotch from behind and SMILING? Ever seen a 13 year old boy grind up against her to the point that HE orgasms in his pants?

I have. I had to go over to break it up just as he "finished."

Nuff said about that. This is NOT 50s dancing, I assure you.

On edit: also 12 year old girls giving lap dances. Not a pretty sight. Seen that, too.

[redqueen]

53. It's just sickening, frankly.

I can't laugh...

[Maddy McCall]

55. I've seen it, too.

I said the same thing in another thread. The ones who say that it's like the TANGO have never seen freaking being done.

[Bouncy Ball]

56. The TANGO???

The tango is freaking CHILD'S play compared to this. My husband and I have been more tame in PRIVATE than this dancing. Seriously.

[DrWeird]

58. As simulated as sex can get.

So either you don't know how to tango or you don't know how to...

[Bouncy Ball]

64. No in freak dancing

your feet do not move. You stand in one place. Girl totally bent over, guy totally doing her from behind. Only the clothes are in the way.

It's not really dancing, more like simulated sex while swaying to music.

And until you've seen young kids actually doing it, you have no idea...

[Maddy McCall]

67. At the high school in my hometown...

school administrators sent out notices to parents that had to be signed by both parent and kid and returned before the kids could attend the dance. Signing and returning the form meant that the parent and kid had gone over the notice and the kid agreed to comply, and the parent would be available to pick the kid up, if the kid disregarded the notice.

The first line on the notice stated: "Students who bend over and grab their ankles and allow other students to mount them from behind will be taken off the dance floor and the parents of the offending students called to immediately come pick up the students."

How exactly does this sound like the tango.

[Maddy McCall]

66. If you think the tango is as simulated as sex can get...

then I was right. You've never seen freaking.

[redqueen]

59. I hope it's just ignorance.

If they know what they're talking about and still defend it... well I just don't even know what to say...

:wow:

[Maddy McCall]

61. Anyone who compares the freak to the tango doesn't know...

what he's talking about. Period.

[Maddy McCall]

60. Freaking also includes putting hands down pants uand up shirts.

I can't recall ever seeing a couple tangoing doing that.

I think the people defending it are doing so out of ignorance. They just haven't seen 14 year olds masturbating with their clothes on, which is what freaking is.

Oh well...

(Let me add that at most of the dances I have chaperoned, it's just a group of ten or twelve kids out of a hundred who freak. The others don't like it and complain about it. Some kids even stay home because they don't want to be touched like that.)

[Bouncy Ball]

65. Exactly

and hands do go up shirts and down pants. Except for the music and the swaying a bit part, it's really not dancing at all.

There's a reason for the saying "get your freak on."

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

70. As one who DJ's , my view is that it is lewd and lascivious conduct.

As a gay person, my view is that this is more demonstration of heterosexual "privilege" rearing its ugly head. The very people who will not let ME get married will jack off publicly on a dance floor to music but somehow I amd harming America.

To those IDIOTS on this thread that assume this behavior is safe, I will confirm it is NOT SAFE for the following reason..

When people go out to dance, guys often wear a condom while freaking so that they don't get jism all over their nice "fly" clothes. When done freaking, they will sometimes even leave the condom right there on the dance floor or on a service tray where an employee MAY end up having contact with their gism.

I am no prude, but freaking is fucking on a dance floor without penetration. I don't care what persuasion you are, fucking in public is against the law.

[gollygee]

71. Oh that is disgusting

I'm no prude either but I wouldn't want to be somewhere with some anonymous guy's used condoms all over the floor.

ewwwwwwwwwwwww

And I totally agree with every word you wrote.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

73. It's truly disgusting...sometimes, they'll leave them right up on the bar

as though it is funny or they toss them onto my bassbins where I've almost inadvertently touched them. The people who think this is harmless also need to be aware that because ONE girl r ONE guy likes to freak doesn't mean everyone on the dancefloor does...it can turn violent when some drunken asshole who thinks eveyone wants his jimmy up their ass gets out of control on the floor.

TO the jackasses that say all dancing is sexual...OF COURSE it is..but NOT ALL DANCING is sex.

[Maddy McCall]

72. Lord have mercy. I just cringed.

Can't imagine walking across a dance floor in heels and WHOOPS! slipping on a used condom.

That is nasty. I think you have the "gross-out" post of the day. :7

[Bouncy Ball]

74. Ah, see, apparently my little 13 year old male student

didn't know that trick about wearing a condom to protect his clothing, as he had to tie his jacket around his waist and look like a total dork for the rest of the dance. They were also both taken off the dance floor.

And as for everyone NOT being ok with it, just witness the 12 year old 7th grade girl I found crying her eyes out after a dance. She would never tell ANY of us (not even the police officer) exactly what was done to her, but she said she "never thought it would go that far."

[redqueen]

76. Thanks for checking in with that.

I'll sit back and wait for your statement to be called 'anecdotal' and pooh-poohed by those that defend the right of teenagers to dry hump at school dances -- on the dance floor.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

78. It's WAY more than anecdotal..I DJ in front of about 50,000 people a year

[catzies]

79. Good point!

I liked what you said about hetero privilege and hypocrisy. Wow.

My daughter's 24 and she thinks freak dancing goes too far, and some of the stuff I've seen her & her friends do would get them in a Girls Gone Wild video.

[Coventina]

91. Holy crap NSMA!!!! Thanks for educating me on this!

Although I feel dirty now.

Yikes!

How can anyone think that is appropriate public behavior?

And you are dead-on about the health and safety issues.

Blech!

[sendero]

86. No, I don't.

... but I think it is a parental issue, period.

I'm anything but a prude, but I think kids need to have time to be kids before they can grow up into healthy adults.

[catzies]

87. I know it's ubiquitous but I wonder how abstinence education fits in

Do any of the schools who are having the biggest problems with freak dancing also teach abstinence-only sex ed. to their kids?

IOW, since sex is a no-no but dancing's okay, is that why more kids are doing it?

Yes, I know kids will be kids. And I'm a parent. I just wonder if this epidemic is a further example on how we've failed our kids. And I strongly believe that abstinence-only sex ed. is misleading, disingenous and possibly dangerous.

[Guy Fawkes]

89. Interesting idea... My middle school

was abstinence only, and we had a HUGE problem with "freaking" (we call it "grinding", here).

I've gone back and supervised "Rec. Night" and I must say, it's gotten a lot worse in the few years I've been gone.

[redqueen]

90. What exactly do you mean by "it's gotten a lot worse"

It's no worse than the Tango, right?

Pfft.

[BigMcLargehuge]

92. locked

Big McLargehuge, protecting the lounge from carried over LBN and GD flame wars since 2003...