Okay, I Think It's Time For Some Red Sox Bashing....

[THUNDER HANDS]

Even though I'm picking them to get to the Series against the Cubs, I still feel the need to beat up on this sorry fanchise.

Specifically, their fans.

Are they loyal?

Absolutely.

Are they rabid?

Indeed.

Are they delusional?

Oh hell yes.

You see folks, Red Sox fans think they're a "cursed" franchise. They think this because they've gone decade after decade without winning a series. Ever since selling off Babe Ruth they've sucked, so that must be it.

Uh, no.

But as an HBO documentary showed, the "curse" can be explained. Basically, the Sox were a overtly racist organization from the 1950's until the 1990's.

They could have had Jackie Robinson, but didn't take him.
They could have had Willie Mayes, but shooed him away.
They kept old, slow, white players for decades as other teams (like the Yankees) added black ballplayers to their roster and won titles.

In fact, the Red Sox were the last team to integrate - a full 12 YEARS after the Dodgers did it.

Think this had a slight impact on their competitivness, or ability to attract quality black free agents? I bet there are still a lot of players who wouldn't dream of coming to Boston.

If cursed is another word for racist, then yes, I'd say the Red Sox are a cursed franchise.

But I fully believe no team deserves to be cursed more than them. I hope the Cubs win the series this year and leave the Red Sox wallowing in their misery yet again.

Go Cubbies!

[RobertSeattle]

1. I heard some of the Red Sox players voted for Reagan...

:evilgrin:

[Braden]

2. There are many of us who Don't believe in Curses.

and your assertion that the Red Sox continue to be a Racist Organization is absurd.


Yes the Red Sox were the last to integrate. that was also about fifty years ago.

"If cursed is another word for racist, then yes, I'd say the Red Sox are a cursed franchise."

you should be embarrassed that you typed this.

[Caution]

3. OK first of all this is insulting

second of all, red sox fans dont consider themselves cursed, that is a creation of Dan Shaugnessy a local sportswriter and only goes back a few years, most red sox fans get annoyed by talk of a curse. it's just something the media latched onto which annoys us to no end.

Yes the red sox ownership was once racist, however that person died a LONG time ago, and the red sox have had many minority players since then. They are most certainly not a racist team any longer and to accuse the team of racism is to accuse the fans of racism (how could we in good conscience support a racist organization without being racist ourselves?) and i take exception to that. If you wish to be a Cubs fan that's fine but to disparage the Red Sox over things which are not true and which havent been true for a long time is mean-spirited and ugly.

[WilliamPitt]

4. Marge Schott

ran the Sox. Steinbrenner is a saint. Yep.

[Red_Storm]

5. Thanks Magic Rat ..........

For telling it like it is.............and IT IS as Magic Rat posted...........

[Braden]

6. so every other team in Major League Baseball

that refused to sign black players before Jackie Robinson gets a clean bill of racial health?
YAWN.

[Red_Storm]

8. Question ............

Are there any Black red sox fans ?

[Braden]

10. ever been to Fenway?

[MaineDem]

11. duhhh...YES!

sheesh

[VermontDem2004]

12. I seen that documentary

and what he said was true, and many Red Sox fans at that time agreed that the owner was overtly racist, he didn't say they were still a racist team, they got Javy Lopez, Pedro Martinez among others. No team gets a clean bill of racial health, but it took the Red Sox 12 years after the Dodgers signed Jackie Robinsto finally sign a black ball player.

[StopTheMorans]

9. "IT IS" WRONG

it was, and not recently. Have you looked at the sox two best players? Who was Luis Tiant? How long ago did he play? Hate the sox and their fans if you want, but this is straight-up TRASH.

[Red_Storm]

13. Hate the red sox fans ?

red sox fans are not hated....they are laughed at and ridiculed for their pathetic and unhealthy obssession with the Yankees....

Example

Red Sox fans wearing "Yankees Suck" t-shirts to games against Oakland and other teams besides the Yankees........


Red Sox fans going into "Yankees Suck" chants in the middle of a Dave Matthews band concert.......


Chants of "Yankees Suck" after a New England Patriots playoff win....


I got plenty more.........Red Sox fans you're not hated......how can one hate a bunch of LOSERS.........

[VermontDem2004]

14. You remember this don't you?

how can YOU root for a bunch of losers?

[donotpassgo]

16. How about this one...

[Red_Storm]

17. Remember This........

BABE RUTH
BUCKY DENT
BILL BUCKNER


85 YEARS, NOTHING BUT TEARS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StopTheMorans]

19. life isn't about winning my friend

you should be an angels fan until you find out who wins this year, it would give your argument more weight.

[Braden]

22. have you read your posts at all?

"red sox fans are not hated....they are laughed at and ridiculed for their pathetic and unhealthy obssession with the Yankees...."

[HuckleB]

23. Yup.

No reason to post this except for hate. Why do you hate so much? It's so sad to see.

[StopTheMorans]

15. keep living in the past buddy

this year is all that matters in life, and it's all that matters every year of your life. You may as well root for the Roman Republic, I mean, hey, they were on top for over 500 years! :eyes: hop back on the bandwagon and leave your race-baiting for someone who deserves it.

on edit: fixed spelling

[Kathy in Cambridge]

26. You're calling a large portion of active DUers 'losers'

There are MANY Sox fans on this board. As a newbie in the community here, you've managed to alienate a lot of people so far. There are ridiculous fans in every ballpark. I don't like the whole 'Yankees Suck' chant-it's embarrassing. But don't judge a bunch of fans by the actions of a few. I have many friends who are Yankee fans, hence my many trips to Yankee Stadium. I have seen bad behavior there as well.

[HuckleB]

18. Really?

That sounds like hate to me. Why are you wasting your energy hating the Red Sox? What did they ever do to you?

[damnraddem]

31. Hating sports teams is healthy, what we should be doing.

It's so much better than hating countries, nationalities, religions, ethnicities. And the well-known secret is: it's one of the things that keeps the teams going -- oh, I'm sorry, instead of 'hatred,' we're supposed to say 'rivalry.'

Most years, it ain't the Red Sox who fill Fenway, it's hatred of the Yankees.

[HuckleB]

35. If you say so...

I don't think it's a good sign of mental health, however.

Further, Red_Storm seems to think it's OK to hate the Red Sox but not to hate the Yankees. It was his hypocrisy that I was aiming at.

[Braden]

40. Red Sox fans go to the park just to hate the Yankees?

incorrect.

[bif]

7. She owned the Reds.

As in Cincinnatti.

[WilliamPitt]

21. But the Sox are the racists

Racism = Curse. Are the Reds cursed?

[THUNDER HANDS]

30. Maybe I should clarify....

I'm not implying that the Red Sox are CURRENTLY a racist organization. Although, I wouldn't necessarily say there isn't a sizable minority of Sox fans who are racists. Hell, there are just a lot of racists in New England, period.

The point is that the Sox aren't a cursed franchise because Babe Ruth was sold. They're cursed because they had a stink of racism hang over their franchise for 40+ years. Hell, between the mid 1980's and the early 1990's the Red Sox failed to sign one single black free agent.

I'm not talking 40 years ago anymore.

And Marge Schott was just a nutcase. Now, Will, I don't know how long she has owned the team for, but if you do, please tell me how many World Series' the Reds won while Schott was owner.

[damnraddem]

32. And that's an important point: yesterday's racism hangs over ...

a team like a curse: makes it that much harder to attract players that a team wants to attract now.

As to before Robinson, EVERY major league team, major league baseball as a whole, was racist -- as was the country as a whole. Go visit the Black Baseball Museum in K.C. sometime (not you, Magic, those who doubt that there was racism).

[Braden]

39. you know what attracts free agents?

[SiobhanClancy]

34. There are just a lot of racists in New England,period??

Exactly how many are there? Any amount of racists is too many,but this is really starting to be offensive,don't you think? Bashing the Sox is bad enough,but you seem to be taking it to another level and are now bashing an entire region,not just baseball fans. I feel like both my team and now my HOME are being insulted,and I just don't get it:(

[THUNDER HANDS]

37. oh come on

What do you want me to say, racism doesn't exist in New England, especially the suburbs of Boston?

It does. And while obviously not everyone in New England is racist (notice I said sizable MINORITY) it does have a history. And you don't think ballplayers talk to eachother before they sign with a team?

Word of mouth kept the Sox from winning the World Series, or at least giving them a better chance to get there.

I'm sorry I'm picking on YOUR team, and YOUR home area. But Long Island where I live is just as racist as New England, but I can at least acknowledge it.

It's important to be open and honest with these things. Even if we don't like hearing it.

[Caution]

36. there are a lot of racist in america

no need to single out new england since i would challenge anyone to show that there are more racists in new england than anywhere else.

The other point is there is no such thing as a curse, it is superstitious nonsense.

marge schott was a nutcase but tom yawkey wasnt? they are both racists.

minority players on the red sox between 1986 and 1995:

Don Baylor
Jim Rice
Ellis Burks
Luis Rivera
Oil Can Boyd
Tony Pena
Mo Vaughn
Carlos Quintana
Troy O'Leary
Jose Canseco
Tony Perez
Lee Smith

Just off the top of my head, many of these were drafted and many brought in through trades. Please explain to me how a free agent signing is somehow more significant? I couldnt speak to free agent signings but in this period, in my recollection the red sox didnt sign a lot of free agents period.

Additionally the red sox are owned by a completely new group of people.

I am not a racist, nor are my parents (lifelong red sox fans), nor my siblings, nor anyone I would consider a friend (many of who are red sox fans) and I reject this out of hand. If you wish to poke fun at the red sox that is fine, i have no problem with that, and I think it is all a good part of sports. But if you are going to play the race card on something that is in the past and has NOTHING to do with the current team or the fans of this team (any more than any other team) than as far as I'm concerned I'll have nothing to do with it. It cheapens environments where racism actually exists.

[WilliamPitt]

38. There are a lot of racists in evert city, state and county

Poof.

[damnraddem]

28. Yes, we should have more respect for a poor team that has long ...

been deservedly in the second tier of major league baseball -- hey, I said I approved of bashing them!

[damnraddem]

29. Well, I agree that, first of all, this is insulting --

as it was intended to be. And it's also great fun.

[seaglass]

20. And here I was, a Red Sox fan, hoping that in the end

it would be Cubs vs. Red Sox. Not because I thought the Cubs would be easy to beat, but because the Cubs have waited so long, and if anyone had to beat the Red Sox, I'd want it to be the Cubs.

So, that's the difference with Red Sox fans; we have a lot of heart, just like our team. :-)

In case anyone missed this, a great article in today's WaPo...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19564-2003Sep29.html

Playoffs Full of Fields of Dreams
Red Sox, Cubs Face History, Opponents
By Dave Sheinin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 30, 2003; Page D01

(The Red Sox) are simply one of the most fun, most joyous teams to come along in years, and sometimes they have so much fun they just don't know what to do with themselves -- which is why, with baseball's postseason set to begin today, the Red Sox are the team of choice for any neutral fan who likes baseball and parties.

[JohnKleeb]

25. funny Shenin is right

I am a netural party in this as an Orioles fan, yankees hater, and someone who would love a Yankees suck T-Shirt, I say thats me all right.

[damnraddem]

33. Hey, fun, joyous -- that's wonderful!

Now, get out of the way and let the professionals dominate the playoffs and World Series.

[JohnKleeb]

24. Wasnt that Yawkey's problem

That he was racist. I felt bad for Boston when I found that out.

[damnraddem]

27. I've always hated the Red Sox, so I'm all for bashing them.

And I have a lot of affection for the Cubbies, from my time in Chicago.

But I want to see another Bay Area World Series: Go Giants; Go As!