"Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought."

[coloradodem2005]

True or false?

The quote is from Sun Tsu: The Art of War.

[Kenneth ken]

1. May have been true at the time

it isn't true now; in terms of actual war. The larger point to keep in mind is that one battle doesn't make a war.

Just as war is a series of battles, so is life. A new battle every day. In the US civil war, the Union got its ass handed to it for about three years. but did eventually win the war.

[Kagemusha]

2. The book read in context is still completely correct.

But, the point is that the general must act AS IF every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought. Otherwise, you will prove the dictum correct in the negative.

I've read the whole thing, if not recently. Really have to put this stuff in context.

[teryang]

3. What is the scope of the term "battle?"

If one refers to each engagement then the answer is merely in terms of probabilities, some of which cannot be anticipated or accounted for.

Is an IED detonation below a Bradley fighting vehicle occuring in isolation a battle? What if the Bradley crew fortuitously or by planning efforts discovered the IED in advance?

I think Sun Tzu's concept of battle had to do with conquering provincial war lords or tribes. In this case battle was tantamount to the term war. In war, the probability of the outcome is pre-ordained by historical trends well in place before the first shot is fired. This is because the full range of social factors affects the outcome. The North won because of the industrial revolution and the social, political and economic factors that went along with it, not only in America but also in Europe. Demography, infrastructure, productivity and social organization dictated the ultimate outcome.

Contrary to popular belief the US is not unchallengeable in battle or in war. The Chinese proved this during the Korean conflict. The Vietnamese proved it again a generation later. In Iraq, like Vietnam, the cliche of American world dominance is being disproved again because of social, political, and geographic factors beyond our claimed unlimited power to dominate. Sunni leadership understands the historic analogy with Vietnam. American leadership, incompetent and corrupt, implausibly denied its applicability.