WORST guitar jam

[Taverner]

OK, I'm sure there will be much gnashing of teeth, but I have to say Neil Young "Down By the River"

I mean its ONE FREAKIN NOTE!!!!

I do like that song tho...

[maveric]

1. That is pretty bad. As much as I love Neil, that is lame.

[opiate69]

2. Anything by Kurt Cobain.

The friggin' guy couldn't play "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star".

[GreenArrow]

10. it's not what you play

it's what you say. Cobain could be a very expressive guitarist. I have heard all too many more technically accomplished guitarists who were artistically sterile.

[opiate69]

14. One can "say" a whole lot more

if one has a solid grasp of vocabulary.

[GreenArrow]

31. one can also talk and talk and talk and say

nothing.

[Nitrogenica]

45. Cobain was brilliant on guitar, not so brilliant in his death.

[opiate69]

46. The fact that...

..some guitarists with great technical prowess sorely lack expressive abilities does not negate the fact that Cobain was, insofar as his playing is concerned, a lazy, talentless hack.

[GreenArrow]

53. Then it's a question of what one values musically --

bloodless, technical proficiency, or vital, expressive ineptitude.

[opiate69]

54. I'll take soulful, technically proficient, expressive...

geniuses over either of the categories you mention any day. And as I've said before, you can whine about "bloodless technical proficient" players until you're blue in the face. It does not invalidate the fact that the other side of the coin, as personified by Cobain and most "indie" hacks is just as bad, if not worse due to their laziness.

[GreenArrow]

59. you keep mentioning this "fact"

when it's nothing more than your opinion. There's a difference between skill and talent. It's possible to have both, but it's easy to mistake one for the other. Cobain may have been unskilled, but he was not without talent. Someone like Joe Satriani (just to throw out a generally well respected guitarist) may be wildly skilled, but is largely bereft of any talent, originality, imagination, or soul. I might as well listen to a machine.

Just out of curiousity, who would you consider "soulful, technically proficient, expressive geniuses"? Someone like Andres Segovia? Or what about John Lee Hooker? Do you suppose that Segovia could have done justice to Hooker's material? Or vice versa?

"Hack" is probably better used to describe highly proficient studio musicians and the like, who frequently have little artistic fire, but can play in a variety of styles.

[opiate69]

60. Satriani, bereft of talent??

Ha... that's funny.. in any case, I would just say that Cobain's talent was his songwriting, and having been around Seattle in their early days, knowing some of the same people, I'd go so far as to say that a good portion of the Nirvana songwriting "talent" came from Grohl and to a larger extent, Butch Vig. I would say a more apt description of a "hack" is anybody who doesn't feel it worth his or her time to get as good at his/her instrument as they possibly can.
Another thing to consider, would somebody of such great "talent" have to hire a tour guitarist to play his own parts? And please, spare me the lecture about "opinions". If you consider out of tune playing, over-bending notes and generally making dissonant noise because you have not the tools to do better, talent, so be it. I will continue to prasie the true geniuses such as Alain Johannsen, Tony Iommi, Martin Barre, Randy Rhodes and Frank Zappa. All musicians who can play pretty much anything they chose, but don't feel the need to prove it (or, disown it). And as for your Segovia/Hooker comparison, again.. one talented guitarist vs. a talented songwriter..

[GreenArrow]

61. yeah, I'd consider Satriani bereft of something

whether talent fire, soul, originality whatever. He's the epitome of talentless hack IMO, all smoke, no fire, all light, no heat. To each his own, but he leaves me cold. Incredibly skilled to be sure, but lacking in something more elemental.

It's funny too, since I haven't listened to Nirvana for years and Cobain wouldn't make my short list of favorite guitarists; I just think he's a bit better than you give him credit for. Again, your opinion, not fact. You mention the things about his style that you don't like, but there are legions of Cobain fans who could tell that it was a "fact" that he was a great guitarist. Their opinion. My opinion is that he was a technically passable guitarist who played with passion and fire.

I guess the good thing is that in your house, you can listen to what you like, and in mine, I can listen to what I like -- Blues, folk music, honky tonk, rockabilly, sixties garage, seventies punk, much of which is even more primitive than Kurt. Lots of world (mostly Asian) and classical music as well. I like Tony Iommi, but I wouldn't call him a genius, Zappa, maybe, but I'm not a fan, Martin Barre doesn't move me, but I've never been a Tull fan. Randy Rhodes always struck me as a hack. Dude could play anything, but I never liked his style. He could play rockabilly, Hooker, flamenco, whatever and it would be well played, but not sound authentic. He would sound authentic playing metal. Alain Johannsen I'm not familiar with; I've heard the name, but can't place it.

At any rate, to each his own. We seem to value different things in our musical tastes.

[eyepaddle]

64. Hacking on Satch--now those are fightin' words!

I blew off a fair amount of steam yesterday with a couple of fairly pugnacious posts on a similar topic, so fortunately for all concerned (not the least of whom is ME!) I've got most of that out of my system.

My main point was that emotional response comes from the listener--not just the player. It isn't a matter of "I like cold sterile technical music and you like angry shite played by paralytics" it's a matter of different music triggers these responses within us. I listen to Joe Satriani (I just listened to Surfing with the Alien running errands this morning) what I heard wasn't scales and technique, what I heard was a sense of excitement, energy and humor--the whammy bar work on those whole-step pull-offs just before the ride out still make me giggle fifteen years or so after I first heard it.

I am quite aware that most people don't share my taste for this kind of music--but that in no way means it is lacking in emotion.

I think it might also be a matter of which emotions you like to feel when listening to music, I can get angry, angst-ridden, depressed, and sardonically weary of the world on my own quite well enough, thank you. I might wnat more fun, playfulness, or maybe relaxation in my life.

The best thing about all of this is that we DON'T all have to listen to the same stuff--shoot we can each individually listen to many different kinds of music. Woo hoo! Yay music!


:hi:

And in closing Joe RULES!

[GreenArrow]

70. this is really what it's all about

"The best thing about all of this is that we DON'T all have to listen to the same stuff--shoot we can each individually listen to many different kinds of music. Woo hoo! Yay music!"

I agree 100% on that!

[opiate69]

69. Alain Johannes...

Guitarist/Vocalist of Eleven, also produced and played guitar on Chris Cornell's "Euphoria Mourning" disc. Phenomenal musician. In any case, yeah.. this argument could go on forever... my only real bitch is, I've spent the last 10 years or so dealing with twits who think that technical proficiency and artistry are mutually exclusive. In my not-so-humble opinion, they're not, and it is better to aspire to both than to settle for one or the other.. And, my apologies if I was out of line at all.. I get a little too emotional sometimes with this subject, as I've spent the better part of 20 years trying to set a higher standard for myself and my abilities as a guitarist/songwriter.

[GreenArrow]

73. okay thanks for the bio

I'm not familiar with him. You're right that this argument could go on forever; it seems like I've been having it for a good 25 years myself. I do agree with you that technical proficency and artistry aren't mutually exclusive; that's the ideal isn't it? But when they don't coincide, I personally would rather listen to somebody that moves me. Keith Richards, for example; sloppy as hell, but I love the old geezer!

No apologies needed, I've enjoyed the conversation. Viva la musica!

:toast:

[porkrind]

63. Joe Satriani ... bereft of any talent, imagination, or soul.

WTF are you talking about?

You hold Cobain up as some artistic paragon, and deride Satriani as a talentless hack?. If you practiced your whole life, you wouldn't be as good as him. I think you must be living in some kind of reverse musical reality.

[GreenArrow]

71. let's make a different comparison

Johnny Cash and Joe Satriani. Satriani is a fretboard wizard, Cash plays cowboy chords. Cash is an infintely greater artist and musician than JS, even if he is not as technically skilled. Or take John Fogerty; compared to Satriani, says much more with much less to work with.

If you like Joe Satriani, I ain't tellin' you not to listen to him. He doesn't move me.

And if you read my earlier posts more carefully, I scarcely held Cobain as an artistic paragon; I said he was more talented than opiate was giving him credit for. Lazy, maybe. Technically bad, maybe. Unschooled, maybe. Untalented, no.

[ProfessorGAC]

37. A Common Canard

My experience is that guys who can't play none like to say that one note is more important than a whole bunch. Just my experience.
The Professor

[GreenArrow]

40. technique is not identical

to artistry. Sometimes one note says more than a whole bunch; its what you express with those notes that counts. My experience is that guys who play really well are just showing off and don't have much to say -- talkin loud, and sayin nothin.

[opiate69]

47. ah, yes.. striving to master your instrument is so... passe...

Thanks, Kurt...

[eyepaddle]

76. I just LOVE the word CANARD

Now I'm gonna have to keep an eye open for a chance to use it! It just sounds so cool, "Canard!"

On edit " I type GOOD!"

[Tafiti]

50. *Hehe*...

Whenever someone asks me to teach them how to play something on guitar, someone who's never played, I teach them the "Come As You Are" riff. They almost always get it down pretty fast, too.

[Floogeldy]

3. The jam in "Down By The River" is not one note

Are you thinking of "Cinnamon Girl?"

[Taverner]

4. Well it varies

But he hammers one note for a while, then hitting a second, back to the first....

[Floogeldy]

17. Its called "Art"

[driver8]

20. Hey -- that's how I play! What's wrong with that?? n/t

[DS1]

5. Anything by Santana

:puke:

[BlueJazz]

6. Amen...I wonder how much longer he's gonna' ride...

..that "Black Magic Woman" into the bright lights of fame?
Geez...talkin' about beating a dead horse...

[jdj]

8. oh but I love him

I love oye como va.

I will have this in my head for the rest of the night.

who I really can't understand is Brian Mays (?) is that the Queen guitarist? I know he is immensley talented but in their hits like We are the Champions, when it changes to We will rock you the guitar totally sucks...unless it's like a jazz type thing that I just don't get.

[Osamasux]

27. You have to listen to the jazz stuff to appreciate Carlos.

Like "Love, Devotion, Surrender" with John McLaughlin. The pop stuff has just been paying the bills, keeping his pop band employed, and giving him the freedom to play what he wants elsewhere.

[jpgray]

7. I guess it's not the worst, but in the Kinks' Australia

the jam in the middle just throws the timing of the whole song off.

[GreenArrow]

9. anything by the Greatful Dead

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ zzzzzzzz ZZZZZZZZ...

[Dukkha]

15. indeed!

No wonder the Dead heads are always high. You'd have to be to find their jams interesting.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. LOL...what did the dead head say when he ran out of dope?

this band sucks

[Blue-Jay]

22. Nice one!

Saw The Dead at Soldier Field in 89 or 90, I forget which. My experience was split into equal parts: I was either annoyed at the crowd or annoyed at the band for sucking and not tuning their guitars.

[SKKY]

23. ROTFLMAO!!

And waking up my wife in the process. That's funny.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Glad you guys liked it. One of my faves.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. I Need To Remember t That One

Thanks Teena! My friend Steve and i loathe the Dead but we have a friend who thinks they're sheer genius. That's a good one.
The Professor

[DrGonzoLives]

55. ZING

Props to nsma for that one.

[AVID]

62. shows what you know - deadhead is one word

:evilgrin:

[Earth_First]

28. I'll speak on behalf of the DU deadheads...

We resent that comment! :)

[no name no slogan]

33. And if I might add, most "Jam Bands" too

I never "got" the Dead, probably because I last smoked a joint when I was 16. To me it always sounded like some old folkie hacks who discovered that you could electrify them thar geetars ifn ye wanted tee.

Same goes with the whole "Jam Band" thing. Whoopdie sh!t, some moran who can barely master a Am pentatonic scale wanking off for 1/2 an hour, making stupid guitar player faces, while the adoring "masses" go "whoa, man" to each other while they pass a doobie.

Guitar heros are so 1974. Let's move on, already!

[GreenArrow]

42. please do add!

I have no doubt that it's a hell of lot of fun to play the jam; listening to it is another thing altogether.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

43. Toss Dave Matthews Band into that mix.

I saw them twice in concert. Their "jams" are nothing more than musical diarrhea - it keeps coming out exactly the same and it always stinks.

[tigereye]

72. even though I am not a big Dave Matthews fan

I think the players are pretty talented. I also like Phish jams. And I am not a big jam fan. But is you really want to hear a wild jam, my vote would be the Art Ensemble of Chicago.

sorry I know this was supposed to be about guitar jams that suck, but...

[autorank]

44. Apostate! Suffer the curse of the Grateful Dead DU Group!

[GreenArrow]

49. MOOOOOTTTTTHHHHHHERRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

Yeeeaaaaaarrrrgghhhh...

O8)

[Elidor]

11. The opening to Sweet Child O' Mi-hee-eye-ein

Fucking wretched!

[jdj]

13. I heard that started as a joke

it was Slash doing circus theme music, just goofing around, and then they made song out of it.

[Elidor]

16. Guess what? It's still a fucking joke. n/t

[mitchum]

66. I always thought it sounded like a Styx synthesiser line...

and, of course, that means WRETCHED

[Bat Boy]

12. Free-fucking-bird!

The damn thing never ends!

Coming in a close second is any time Clapton picks up a guitar. No good can come of that...

[PittPoliSci]

19. hahaha!

good choices!!! :hi:

[Atlas Mugged]

29. Damn - I hate that song.

'Freebird' and 'American Pie' tie for most overated songs ever.

[last_texas_dem]

21. Toss-up

One of my friends likes this duo (now broken-up I believe) called the Moldy Peaches. They have a song, I think it's called "Nothing Came Out" that has one of the most godawful guitar solos. It sounds like something I could play and I can't play anything on guitar.

Either that or the solo in "The Cover of the Rolling Stone" by Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show. Of course, I'm not sure if these count since I think both of them, at least the latter, are intentionally supposed to be bad. Also, they may not be long enough solos to truly qualify as jams, but all I know is that they are definitely bad!

[charlie]

25. That botched mess

in the middle of the Beatles' All You Need is Love is pretty jarring.

The best shitty-on-purpose solo is in the Beastie Boys' Fight for Your Right to Party.

[Radical Activist]

26. Hey I love that guitar jam!

Ok, so it wasn't complex but I really enjoy it.

I'll give a blanket answer and say most of those songs from the 60's that are good until you get this 10-30 second section of discordant psychedelic noise and guitar grinding that is totally out of character with the rest of the song. Magic Carpet Ride and Wasn't Born to Follow come to mind. That was an annoying fad that interrupted some otherwise great songs.

[Bok_Tukalo]

30. Black Dog by Zepplin

The entire lead track on that one drives me nuts. I can't listen to it. It's like Page was a fraction of a second behind everyone else.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

32. Anything by Molly Hatchet

It takes more than a Frank Frazetta album cover to make good music.

Gregg Allman was once asked about this ham-fisted redneck band's cover of "Dreams," and if he was flattered by the "tribute." His response was "no comment."

[Richardo]

His solo in 'Cinnamon Girl' is also one note.

Song rocks, tho. :headbang:

[underpants]

34. Sublime's "Santeria" guitar solo

HORRID!

[Beer Snob-50]

35. Anything involving Sammy Hagar or Lenny Kravitz

[ProfessorGAC]

36. I Don't Like Most of His Electric Work

I prefer if Neil just has his Gibson or Guild acoustic and sits on a stool and plays. I don't care for his electric work on anything i've ever heard.

So, you got my vote!
The Professor

[mr_hat]

48. Neil channeled Jimi unlike Steve Stills who just thought he did. Pity you

can't hear that, Prof. There's soul there, man.

[Strawman]

39. You Got Lucky by Tom Petty

I always found that guitar part really annoying for some reason. I don't think Tom Petty is bad, not a huge fan, but that one comes to mind.

Lou Reed's guitar work is not the most stellar, but I love his stuff anyway. His playing on "I Wanna Be Black" might be his worst.

[Beware the Beast Man]

41. Man, before the message finished loading, that was my answer!

Oh, and the "solo" on Cinnamon Girl, as well.

[WilliamPitt]

51. nee nee nee nee nee, na nee nee nee nee nee, na nee nee nee nee nee

Cinnamon Girl: Greatest one-note solo ever. :)

[mr_hat]

52. Fripp has an even more wrenching one-note solo

on the "Red" album. I think it's in the middle of "Starless."

He plays one note across two strings... Madness.

[tigereye]

74. but that's Fripp

he gets a special dispensation!

[NervousRex]

56. Any and all Greg Ginn Solo attempts

I like Black Flag, but Ginn couldn't solo.

[The Zanti Regent]

57. The worst guitar jam ever? Carpenter's "Goodbye To Love"

What a shame the overmodulated guitar didn't short circuit...

[Megahurtz]

58. How about some Steve Vai?

He's one of the BEST!!!

[HEAVYHEART]

65. This is a stupid thread

Not saying Taverner is stupid for starting it. I like reading music threads such as this, and learning what everybody's favorites and opinions are on musicians, songs. What I hate is the back and forth bullshit from posters arguing about who is beter, who is worse, etc.. Stupid I tell ya..

[mitchum]

67. It's TWO notes...

and I like them

[IronLionZion]

68. Anything by a pop band

especially a pop "punk" or pop "jam" band. That kind of music will make you violent....cause you want to kill the band!

[tigereye]

75. I like pop-punk esp if it is

very 60s ish. I agree that the solos ( when there are any) are usually very Eddie Van Halen or the worst of 60s guitar style. Bad Religion solos aren't too bad, sometimes the speed of the rhythm guitar playing creates its own solo effect with the "over-rings" or chorus effect.