We just banned a long-term member.

[Skinner]

We don't normally tell the world when we do stuff like this, but I don't really think it's fair for the poor, overworked Lounge moderators to have to deal with the inevitable complaining.

We banned ChavezSpeaksTheTruth. We had a really good reason. If he wants to come back, he needs to email me and explain why the fuck he did what he just did. And his explanation better be damn good.

I have no doubt that you all want to talk about this, and you want to talk about how much DU sucks, and you want to talk about what a super-duper guy ChavezSpeaksTheTruth is, and you want to talk about how you are certain he didn't deserve to be banned, and how the admins are a bunch of fascists. If you do, do it in this thread.

Other threads on this topic will be locked or deleted.

Skinner
DU Admin

[Worst Username Ever]

1. Could we see what chavez did so we don't make the same mistake?

[bigwillq]

3. Please? Can we?

Just so we know.

[Skinner]

7. Don't worry, you're not going to make the same mistake.

This was deliberate and pre-meditated. This was not an accident.

[Kahuna]

19. Ahh.... Was it like that poster who figured out how to hack DU polls..

and then bragged about it? :shrug:

[Zenlitened]

25. Any connection to server speed?

I noticed a slowdown a while back.

[Jack_Dawson]

29. It would be VERY HELPFUL to know WTF he did

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Or something like that?

:shrug:

[Deja Q]

38. Wow. The 'what happened' responses are many.

I won't make any dumb statements about whatever. I don't think anybody needs to... We can all see for ourselves and judge, period.

</end my inclusion in this thread.>

Edit: removed any inlking of my personal beliefs. They're not relevant.

Edit2: Notice my timestamps for my involvement in this thread. This is the last one I've made.

[Zomby Woof]

48. There's a deleted message on Skinner's pinned thread

That makes me go "hmmmm".

[DrWeird]

52. I saw that.

Could he have hacked it?

[smbolisnch]

56. Wondered the same thing.

I am just being a nibshit too, though. :P

[Misunderestimator]

54. Hmm... a deleted message on a thread you cannot reply to...

now you got me wondering...

[DrWeird]

66. Unless it was an admin

who posted something and then changed his mind.

[Misunderestimator]

74. Yeah, but they normally wouldn't put the standard "Delete" message

that points the user to the rules of DU. They could just remove the message entirely or delete what they wrote the way any of us would.

[DrWeird]

76. Are you sure?

My original thought was that Skinner meant to post this under that pinned topic, then said "fuck it" and started a new thread.

[Misunderestimator]

83. That deleted post is marked an hour before this thread was

started. I really think they would only use the standard "warning" delete message when they are deleting a message someone posts that violates the rules. I think it would be easier to go back and edit and remove the post instead if that's all you want to do.

[crispini]

57. Ooo, so there is.

It would take quite a feat of ingenuity to reply to a locked thread, now, wouldn't it?

[Worst Username Ever]

59. Outstanding deduction, Watson.

Now you have got me wondering, too.

[nini]

96. I betcha you're right

:D

[Zomby Woof]

100. I am always right!

Hasn't been a banned DUer yet I have missed the mark on, long-termer, beloved, or otherwise. ;-)

[Medium Baby Jesus]

168. Two posts in ATA asking about

odd font size changes. Hmmmmm....

[slutticus]

153. But he had to have posted something really bad.

I don't think simply finding a way to reply to a locked thread will get you banned.

It had to have been one hell of a post, ala Seventhson.

[Misunderestimator]

158. And I would assume that it had an *ahem* artistic flair to it as well

[slutticus]

161. You know something.

Don't you?

Spill it.

[Misunderestimator]

163. Nope... just making an assumption...

if it was a post to a thread saying that sex threads are not allowed, it follows that the deleted post was sexual and given CSTT's artistic nature, it would follow that it might include a picture. That's all.

[bigwillq]

35. Thanks for being honest Skinner

If it was deliberate than I shouldn't have anything to worry about. I was just curious as to why he Chavez...was banned

[HEAVYHEART]

2. What happened?

Is it open for discussion?

[DrWeird]

4. You say you have a really good reason.

For the sake of avoiding speculation, could you just tell us what that reason was?

Sure, I know it's against policy, but then again so is this thread, and it would avoid all the confusion from when this kind of thing happens.

[Kire]

10. get a court order

They say they have a good reason, that's good enough for me.

CSTT led the charge on getting (or trying to get) RandomKoolZip back from being banned. I supported him on that. I like him, and I will miss him. But, I wouldn't be a good friend pissing and moaning all over the administrators to get him back.

If he wants to come back, he will have to make amends to Skinner and Elad and whomever and we can all have a pizza party with him in the lounge for eternity.

[DrWeird]

17. Hey, I believe them.

I'd just like to know what that good reason was.

[Worst Username Ever]

18. Geez, RKZ is banned too?

[Worst Username Ever]

32. answering my own question, no.

[Deja Q]

30. I concur. That is fair. Gotta know so we don't

unwittingly walk in the same self-regenerating minefield.

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. Eh, I missed whatever he did

But whatever. I trust the mods, and you, Skinner, to be doing what you think best. This is your house, after all.

I, for one, don't think you're a fascist or a nose-bleed-licking lemur-raper or whatever invective is sure to be coming your way. I thought ending the sex threads was a great idea, too.

:-)

Some people complain too fuckin' much.

[DrWeird]

27. That's why I'm confused.

Yesterday CStT was a big proponent of ending the sex threads. He was even being a bit of a jerk about it, not in the rule breaking way, but there you go.

[liberalhistorian]

306. Yeah, like uptight people

who get their panties in a wad about people in the lounge having some harmless fun, when they don't even have to click on the damn thread if they don't want to, and thus ruin it for everyone else.

[Rabrrrrrr]

317. Absolutely!

While I'm happy there's a ban on the sex threads, since some of 'em were gettin' obnoxious, they also never bothered me.

I prefer to ignore things that aren't my bag, rather than go tattling to momma to "defend" me from seeing the stuff I don't like. I guess I'm grown up to realize that words and pictures that I don't like aren't going to hurt me or cause eternal damnation by looking/reading at them, etc.

[Lenape85]

6. Inquiring minds would like to know

[da_chimperor]

8. NOOOOOO! NOT HIM!

He provided me with hours of amusement. Damn, I hope they let him back on. ;(

[bicentennial_baby]

9. C'est la vie...

You play with fire, you just may get burned...

[McKenzie]

11. I modded on a big BBS

for a looong time. The guidelines for banning were very clear and used only when absolutely necessary. You people will have your reasons; our basic parameter was "don't argue with the mods". We often came under fire for banning posters but I can't recall a single occasion when it wasn't done for the right reasons.

[MadAsHellNewYorker]

12. thanks for being open about the goings on of DU Skinner

while i missed all the details, they don't matter as much as you stepping in and doing what you do.

while i may not always agree with your or the mods decisions, someone must draw the line somewhere.

[fishnfla]

13. I'm gonna get flamed for this

this is the third DUer recently banned that was on my ignore list. instincts

[Rabrrrrrr]

24. ROTFL!

Too funny. You DO have good instincts!

So, just out of curiosity...who else is on your ignore list?

:P

[Sanity Claws]

28. who else was banned recently?

I want to check their names against my ignore list, too.

[blondeatlast]

177. All you have to do is look at the "profile" of the people on your

list. I no longer keep people on "ignore," but when I did, they almost always ended up being banned--nearly to a soul.

[Deja Q]

46. Are you implying he was a freeper?

(this post is legal; I'm not talking about the other thing)

[DrWeird]

55. Well, he disrupted.

Poorly.

[Susang]

280. Chavez was not a Freeper and you know it

For you to allow that implication to stand uncorrected is very disappointing. And wrong.

[mitchum]

288. Susang, I don't think that DrWeird was implying that Chavez was...

a freeper. Seems that he was merely referring to the inscription on the tombstone. i could be wrong, but I don't think so :)

Damn! I will miss Chavez

[hippiechick]

189. Care to share that list with me ?

I need some departures to look forward to ;)



:hippie:

[slutticus]

278. Ignored

:P

[skygazer]

14. No complaints from me, Skinner

I liked ChavezSpeaksTheTruth but I don't like the way people try to needle the mods or push the envelope deliberately. This is your place, you make the rules and I wouldn't want your job!!

[supernova]

15. Huh? I missed the big bruhaha

being at work and all.... I look in from time to time during the day but not for long.

Wha' happened? :shrug:

[sandnsea]

16. It's his one year anniversary

on DU, and he got a little cocky???? :shrug:

I don't know what he did either, but it must have been a doozy.

[Schema Thing]

20. He never once answered one of my post

So may his soul rot in hell!


Let that be a lesson to the rest of you!


He seemed nice otherwise though.

[HEAVYHEART]

31. I was just gonna say the same thing!

I don't know Chavez and I'm a newbie here, so he doesn't know me from adam, maybe he only responds to the old timers. Hell, nobody here knows me from adam! lol! But I noticed that he never ever answers any of my posts. No dent on my social life or anything but I did wonder why, although I've never held it against him at all.

Oh well. I do hope all works out with the admins and Chavez.

[Misunderestimator]

40. I wouldn't take it personally...

he never answered any of mine either... :shrug: I can only assume that the admins did what they did for a good reason.

[HEAVYHEART]

58. Nope, I didn't take it personally at all

Ok I was pissed goddammit! Nah, just kidding. hehe.. I've learned not to take things personally on message boards. :-)

[Misunderestimator]

63. Yeah, me too... takes a while.

:)

[Skittles]

84. he always answered mine, M

Chavez was very interested in my ass-kickings.....come to think of it, maybe TOO interested :D

[Misunderestimator]

87. I have no clue why... I posted on many of his threads and posts..

:shrug:

[sffreeways]

270. Hey

I thought you were banned

[Schema Thing]

44. Here ya go..

Just cuz I probably never replied to you either. :)

I'm a newbie too, and if my standard takes, Chavez is gonna be surrounded by alot of people rotting in hell, lol. Heck, my threads go down so fast I've been thinking of changing my user name to Led Derigeable (or something like that, but with a little more zep).

[HEAVYHEART]

61. Awwww.. You answered MY post!

Led Derigeable. That is funny as hell! :D

[AwakeAtLast]

202. Mine do, too, so I just don't post very often.

I kill them pretty often, too.

[Bok_Tukalo]

230. I know you from adam

<eom>

[liberalhistorian]

309. There are thousands of members here

and hundreds of regular posters. Do you really expect every single one of them to answer your posts? Maybe they were posted when he didn't see them or maybe he didn't have anything to say. There are plenty of posters here I like who usually don't answer any of my posts, and it doesn't bother me because I know it's not personal. It's unrealistic to expect that, in fact.

[Seabiscuit]

21. It's Skinner's forum, his rules make sense for the benefit of all, and

that's all I need to know.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kahuna]

39. That happens alot. The offending post remains. Because the person..

who started the crap, hits the alert button when you tell them where to get off. :wtf: I wish the mods would read the threads of the person hitting the alert button too. I know they're too busy to read everything. But as you pointed out, some posters are just being wiseacres.

[newsguyatl]

42. exactly.

[Donkeyboy75]

214. You can believe a conspiracy theory,

or you can believe the more parsimonious one which would suggest that you simply broke DU rules. :shrug:

[newsguyatl]

234. perhaps you didn't see the thread in question

so i'd suggest you leave your sarcastic comments to yourself. :hi:

[Donkeyboy75]

283. Whatever.

If you break DU rules it's your fault, not someone else's. Unless they hacked your computer. Which I doubt

[Name removed]

216. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

227. That's true

But at the same time, rules are rules. GD Primaries, some people absolutely were on personal banning crusades. Only time I've ever been alerted on and I ain't the nicest person in the world. Most of it was silliness, but in the very strictest sense, rules were broken.

[Skittles]

23. dammit Chavez

get cracking on that explanation. WTF? I don't know what happened but I know you're better than that. I absolutely trust the opinions of Skinner and the mods. Now DO IT. I will miss you.

[jonnyblitz]

26. my empathy is with the lounge mods , especially lately. n/t

[roguevalley]

45. after the troll who got on what was it, LBN? My sympathies are

with the mods. However, that weasel was sort of entertaining in a train wreck sort of way. I'm surprised there aren't more problems with 60,000+ members. :+

[Worst Username Ever]

111. Would that be Bill L?

[LiviaOlivia]

185. No that was martin finkel and pynchon454

and another one who spewed filth on LBN last week.

[Maddy McCall]

268. I'm amazed that some of the worst habitual breakers of DU Rules...

are still here. One in particular should have been banned two nights ago.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. why?

i am not even going to pretend that this is cos i am afraid of making the same mistake...just curious

[mike_c]

34. DU sucks and the mods are a bunch of pansy-assed fascists....

There. Got that off my chest. I feel better already.

In all seriousness, I don't mean to make light of whatever event has clearly upset Skinner quite a bit. Sounds like you've had a tough day.

xoxo
mike_c

[txaslftist]

36. I'm sure you've got good reasons...

as someone who has skated close to the red line often enough, I support totally the job you guys do. I would like to know what he did, just so I don't make the same mistake. Could you mail it to my inbox?

[trof]

37. Not just idle curiosity, but...

it would be helpful to know what happened.
I don't always agree with what goes on here, from top (admins) to bottom (posts), but I like it enough to keep hanging around.
I've quit making judgements about who does or says what because it just serves no purpose.

Having said that, if there is some cautionary tale here, I'd like to hear it.

[Zomby Woof]

41. I hope I am allowed to say...

It was the RIGHT decision, and a damn good one. I had MANY problems with him, and I know the mods were tired of my alerts.

Thank you mods, and no complaints from here. I feel a sense of relief.

(Apologies if this is not the place, but I figure if this is the thread to be open with our feelings, I would express mine.)

[Nadienne]

72. What did he do? Do you know?

I seem to recall that he and I butted heads once or twice... Or I remember reading threads where he butted heads with someone else and my opinions were more in agreement with the someone else...

[NightTrain]

43. Skinner, I'm perfectly willing to give you and the mods the benefit of...

...the doubt. I missed whatever Chavez did, but my experience with DU is that you don't ban longtime members without a very good reason.

Keep on keepin' on, Skinner! :hi:

[htuttle]

47. I'd like to have some idea what happened

But mostly because I'm a nosy parker. I want to know about everything.

:shrug:

[paula777]

50. "a nosy parker" lol

[qnr]

51. Yeah, I always feel that way about the tombstoned freeper posts...

I think there should be a secret graveyard of deleted posts, just for research. I'd pay an additional fee for it :)

[PA Democrat]

70. LOL

Might be a great way to raise money. I admit that I sometimes get mad when I just miss reading a deleted post. Guess I am nosy, too.

[Pirate Smile]

159. Me too. Oh well....

[Plaid Adder]

49. Uh...can you at least give us a hint?

Animal, vegetable, or mineral? Or something?

I mean, was it something he did on the board, or is he selling our information to the fascist underground, or what?

The Plaid Adder

[JohnLocke]

64. I concur with the Plaid Adder.

[democracyindanger]

67. See ZombyWoof above

I think he's figured it out.

[last1standing]

53. This has been a hard week for DU.

In a week of bad news, I'll reserve my greatest sorrow for Kephra and my greatest concern for his mother. Then there has been Padraig's problems and Mrs. Grumpy's. If someone has decided to create artificial pain for others in this atmosphere, then I have no sympathy for their punishment.

Things will get better, though. They always do. Good luck to us all.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

What's Up With Padraig and Mrs. Grumpy??

Are they OK?

:scared:

DTH

[Plaid Adder]

71. THey were both going into the hospital for major procedures

I hope they're both OK. There were threads about both started a couple days ago.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Left Is Write]

82. I think Paddy is having surgery tomorrow.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

85. Thanks for the Info

My thoughts and best wishes go out to Paddy, Tony, Mrs. G, and their loved ones.

:grouphug:

:loveya:

DTH

[sundog]

60. Multiple identities?

:shrug:

[TrustingDog]

62. what's the point of bringing this up in a special thread...

huh?
if it's something most of us wouldn't do anyways...

[EarlG]

79. Because this has been a damn rough week for everyone

And the last thing we need right now is 200 threads on this topic. So we created a single thread for everyone to use.

[Plaid Adder]

86. I'm sure you must have had a good reason for it.

It amazes me how well you and the moderators manage to run this place, it being the size that it is. I hope whatever happened didn't upset you guys too badly.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[DrWeird]

90. Sounds reasonably.

So is there a good reason for not telling us what happened and rather letting us speculate?

[EarlG]

130. Because we never explain why people are banned

It's between us and the banned member. But in this case, Chavez was obviously a popular member of the board, he'd been around for a long time, and after the chaos that ensued following the recent temporary bannings of randomkoolzip and TIA, we thought it would be a sensible move to at least let people know that we'd had to ban him and provide a single thread so that the moderators - who have also had a very tough week - wouldn't be overwhelmed with threads discussing this.

And that said, I'm outta this thread now. I'll leave you guys to it.

[DrWeird]

138. Hang on, before you go, there's precedent.

I remember one particular disruptor who had been hacking with the polls or some such thing.

You didn't just tell us what he did, you nailed him to the top of the forum to let us all watch the progress of the corpse on the gibbet for a few days.

So if you'll let me ask one question that should put an end to one topic of speculation:

Does it have something to do with security? i.e. responding to a locked thread?

[ohio_liberal]

140. Don't forget

the huge Bev Harris threads :shrug:

[Pale Blue Dot]

164. This is completely untrue.

His name was never mentioned. In fact, I had to dig to find it. There WAS a sticky thread about the incident, but only because it DIRECTLY affected many, many DUers (a poll was hacked.)

It's none of my business, but I would quit while I was ahead, if I were you.

[DrWeird]

184. No, they pinned his thread with his username still attached.

And they pinned it because it was a hacking, which one would have to do in order to reply to a locked thread. That's why I bring up a security issue.

"It's none of my business, but I would quit while I was ahead, if I were you."

Well now what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

[Pale Blue Dot]

212. It means nothing.

I went too far out of frustration, and I apologize.

I'm very defensive about this site and the work that Skinner et al. do for it. Most of us cannot even begin to understand what they go through on a daily basis.

[DrWeird]

219. Hey, I support the admins. 100% on this.

I'm just thinking that it would clear up all this talk if we just knew what happened.

There was a poster here that got banned awhile back because he went to ATA and called the admins a bunch of dirty names. Somebody who was a friend of this person got upset because she thought that he had been banned for something else and that the banning was unjustified. If she had known the real reason, she would have known that it was justified and would never have become upset.

Just telling us why would avoid all of that confusion and speculation.

[KoKo]

242. nevermind....posting pix of nudes doing things with horses is too much...

[HeyManThatsCool]

298. That isnt actually true...

The reason Bev Harris got banned was revealed.



I have no dog in this fight, but, whats the harm. Tell them & the thread count wont be 298+

[jmm]

89. I've moderated enough times in the past to know that

when long term posters are banned there usually are numerous threads for days from people who support the decision, don't support the decision, use it as a chance to trash people, love a good excuse to call the mods and admins fascists, etc. And when the mods and admin think it's getting out of hand and try to lock threads they are no better than GWB because they wish to suppress free speech and can't handle criticism. At least this way they are allowing discussion while saving to unpaid moderators from the trouble of dealing with dozens of threads on the issue.

[Nadienne]

167. I don't know whether or not I support the decision...

I don't know what he did! I can only speculate...

[sonicx]

When Dookus was rumored to be banned, there were threads on that

there have been others too.

[Maddy McCall]

256. DOOKUS WAS NOT BANNED. HE ASKED FOR HIS ACCT TO BE

DEACTIVATED. LET'S JUST GET THAT MINOR FACT STRAIGHT.

This is a completely different situation.

[Dookus]

295. LOL..

thanks for sticking up for me maddy. He said "rumored" to be banned, though. I'm sure no offense meant and certainly none taken.

[joeybee12]

65. Was it because he's a Yankees fan?

Just kidding--I know he posted a lot, and from what I could tell there never was anything out of bounds. I can only--like the vast majority of the people who have responded to this post--wonder why!

[HEyHEY]

68. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Just kiddin....well, whatever happens, if you find it in your hearts to let him back in after he's apoligized or whatever...I'd be for it.

[MikeG]

69. I'm sure it was a good reason.

[paula777]

73. Time for speculation .... I think he posted a x rated picture

[TrustingDog]

75. neked women or pink misted Iraqi kids?

[paula777]

80. neked women ... neked women doing stuff with dogs or horses

[TrustingDog]

97. heh. if that's true, he's an asshole that won't be missed much.

[IronLionZion]

109. I doubt it. I've done that and I'm still here.

It must have been something truly offensive. Either that or the mods let me off easily. :evilgrin:

In all seriousness, the mods are excellent bunch of people and are way more lenient than they have to be. There had to be something really really really bad for this to happen. I got banned for spamming once before but they let me back within a day. The mods and admins of DU are some of the finest people you will ever meet. They deserve more respect.

[Susang]

77. Damn

Damn. :-(

[Zomby Woof]

91. Why "damn"?

He was psychotic. Sociopathic. Used to stalk me to no end for months on end because I made an offhand remark on how I hated excess copycat threads. He baited and flamed me to no end. Sometimes I was stupid enough to take the bait. Other nights I just ignored him.

I will never get why some people on DU are so revered... for what? Psychotic ramblings and flamebaiting? Shit, I don't even believe my own hype around here, so no one else gets any slack.

[DrWeird]

93. What he was doing to The Princess...

was pretty out of line. Didn't know he was doing it to you.

[Zomby Woof]

105. Oh yeah

Same method, different material. It was obsessive, and I am someone with a high tolerance of eccentric behavior, even on here.

[paula777]

107. Now we are getting somewhere ..... he was stalking / scaring people

Then good, he should go.

[JimmyJazz]

114. But you are only hearing one side of the story and that side is

from someone who clearly has an agenda.

[paula777]

119. Do you have the other side of the story?

[DrWeird]

Care to add a little information to that post?

i.e. what agenda, and what's the other side?

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JimmyJazz]

133. I think someone else said it correctly: you aren't an angel either.

That's the end of this. I didn't post to you. Leave me alone.

[Zomby Woof]

142. Did I EVER say I was an angel?

Find a link, or find a better rebuttal. Plus, the person who said that is a FRIEND who knows me better than most people on here.

I am close enough to heaven to grab a few wings, in fact. ;-)

[XanaDUer]

150. I can verify that Zomby is no angel!

;)

We all have our agengas.

[JimmyJazz]

157. I wrote a lengthy post to someone about what I know, but chose

not to post it - I don't want to start anything with you. But, the truth is neither of you liked one another. That's a fact. You and he engaged in some pretty inflammatory stuff and the rest of the lounge was waiting for one of you to drop it.

I'm not assessing blame - in fact, I'm old enough to recognize that most times, blame can be pretty evenly distributed. Is that clear? I am not blaming you. Many times, I wished one or both of you would just put each other on ignore and get it over with, but that never seemed to happen.

I come here to have a good time, not to engage in flame wars with you or anyone else.

My point, and my only one, is that you have a clear bias against Chavez and therefore, your opinion that he deserved to go isn't going to be shared by everyone.

Mea culpa for the poor choice of words "an agenda."

[Zomby Woof]

175. I understand

I admitted elsewhere I am sometimes stupid enough to get down and dirty with others, like him. I admit I wish I didn't most times.

Fair enough... I wish you no ill will any further.

[JimmyJazz]

223. Oh and one last point: Please don't think I'm defending

his right to stay - I don't know what happened - I have no clue - but it must have been something serious because Skinner seems beside himself.

I'm reserving judgment until I learn more. My only point was that you and he had an open Hatfields and McCoys thing going and so any speculation on your part was subject to that ongoing feud.

I'm not passing judgment, just pointing out human nature. This time, I really am finished. :)

[Name removed]

217. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LincolnMcGrath]

220. Yah Yah But, Tell us how you really feel! lol

:evilgrin:

[paula777]

222. Yikes, it's getting scary in here

[Zomby Woof]

224. LMAO

I wouldn't mind if this stays. It's colorful, and fun! :loveya:

[Name removed]

229. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deja Q]

228. LOL. They didn't yet.

:evilgrin:

(this post of mine is also legit because I'm not talking about the issue that the original post was dealing with.)

[Amaya]

152. ZW doesn't have agendas

nice try

[JimmyJazz]

187. see my post to him if you'd like

and I wasn't trying anything, but thanks.

[dolo amber]

226. I HATE when that happens

[JimmyJazz]

232. .

on edit: nevermind, I get it.

[StopTheMorans]

296. I concur n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

127. did you know him at all? cos some of us will miss him...

and your flippancy is weird...i understand people who like him or dislike him and their opinions...but why are you just looking for gossip?

[Zomby Woof]

135. I EARNED my dislike of him

There is NOTHING flippant about it. You have no idea because his posts directed at me were often deleted. Believe me, I make no flippant judgments about ANYONE on here. I am an old-timer who has seen it ALL.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

141. sorry zomby i wasnt talking to you...did i reply to you by mistake?

if so i didnt mean to

on edit: you misread this...its a reply to post 107 not yours

[Zomby Woof]

143. sorry!

I am just firing random missives in the dark. :-) Don't take offense, please. :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

149. none taken

[Susang]

120. We don't know anything

Other than rumor at this point.

[DrWeird]

129. There's what I witness yesterday.

LIke I said earlier, not rule violations but general jackassery, and I trust Zombywoof more than "rumor."

[Zomby Woof]

132. Well I know what I experienced at his hand

I'll just say I am DAMN entitled to a VERY negative opinion of him, and that the Lounge will be far better without his incoherent blasts and endless spamming copycats.

[Susang]

156. Why not just leave it alone?

He's gone, it's over. Is it so important for you to be right and make anyone who liked Chavez hate him now too? :shrug:

[Zomby Woof]

188. I live to be right

It's not an easy burden, I tell you! Vindication makes it all worth it. :P

Having said that, I am not out to change others' minds. But I think it's important to know that people you like can treat others you like quite shittily, and not just ordinary flames either (being someone who has doled out my fair share). I think it is easy to misjudge someone when you can't see half their personal attacks after deletion. You are on here less than me (makes you far saner and smarter), and so I feel your opinion is what it is due to what you NEVER saw, and not just what you saw.

But by all means, I feel even more strongly about the right of you to your opinions than I do about being right. :-)

[Cadence]

273. Why are you so impressed with yourself for "doling out your

fair share of flames"? You take delight and even brag about being disruptive, how does that make you a great addition to DU?
There a plenty of people here that would be saying all of the things you are saying about Chavez... about you, if you finally got caught for the stuff you pull.

You have made a lot of people miserable here, I don't think that's anything to brag about.

[Zomby Woof]

282. I have made more people happier

On the balance sheet, I contribute more to DU than I take away. I wasn't bragging, I was just applying the same brutal honesty to myself that I apply to others. If you read elsewhere in this thread, you will see that I admit to being a pain in the ass at times, and regret some of the flame wars. Some. The ones I don't regret were the ones where I was fighting back against attacks and my sense of fairness overcomes my calmer side.

It seems you have greater issues with me than I ever had with Chavez. Which is strange considering I don't have any with you.

I sure would like to know how I have made people miserable here. That sounds like sky-high rhetoric to me. No evidence, I am sure.

One last thing. Saying "if you finally get caught" sounds like a covert slam of the mods. As if they are negligent or ignore your no doubt numerous alerts of me. The mods are fair, and give no special treatment, as I know firsthand. Shame you have to make a dig like that.

[Susang]

108. Because I liked him

People say a lot of terrible shit about you too Zomby, and you're no angel yourself, but that has never affected how I feel about you. I would (and have been) sad if you were banned as well.

[Zomby Woof]

125. Did you read my post?

I said I don't believe my own hype. I don't understand why people look up to me either. But it was people LIKE HIM who said that "terrible shit."

Also, I never claimed I was perfect or an angel.

I also don't stalk people obsessively like he did. He has problems. BIG problems. My problem is I am honest. But I don't go around baiting people endlessly whom I disagree with. He did. LOTS. It was sick.

I think your liking of him is misguided. He never treated you the way he treated me and a few others on here. Be glad. It was a shitty experience, and I am goddamned HAPPY he is gone. May he never return.

[Susang]

148. I think you might want to reconsider what I wrote

People accuse you of a lot of things, both in the past and in the present, things similar to what you are accusing Chavez of. My point was, it didn't stop me from liking and defending you when people talked shit about you.

I have no idea why the two of you did not get along, as that was between the two of you. He and I always got along fine and I am sad to see him gone, it's as simple as that. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but I'm not going to stop liking him just because you guys hated each other. I just can't do that.

[Worst Username Ever]

160. Don't worry, I don't look up to you.

:P

[Zomby Woof]

194. That's because you're 6'8"!

You don't look up to anyone! :P

[Bouncy Ball]

274. People look up to you?

Really?

Just kidding! LOL!

[Donkeyboy75]

193. Um,

if you think you have "hype" to begin with, you're probably believing your own hype. :eyes:

And the alcoholic remark you made elsewhere was way out of line. That has no bearing on the rest of whatever perceived slights you've suffered from him.

[Zomby Woof]

199. No, it was on target

It was deserved. Drunks get no special treatment for the way they abuse others. I stand by that. He had it coming, just like his banning. The slights against me were not perceived, they were real. But you probably did not see them, being deleted quite quickly.

As for my "hype", I am fairly liked around here, although I have taken some hits since the primaries(as I always do, gladly) for being brutally honest. ;-)

But I am a popular sweetheart around here. :loveya:

[Nadienne]

211. I can vouch for you

being a popular sweetheart, and someone that I respect, though I only know you by your posts...

[joeybee12]

225. Hi! Can you give some specific examples of what he did--without getting

too graphic? Seriously, I'm not sure I understand what exactly you mean by baiting or stalking on his part. Never happened to me. Could it be that my posts are too boring?:cry:

[Undercover Owl]

235. Zombywoof was the first to welcome me

I remember. It was about 260 posts ago.

[mitchum]

301. ZW, I'm really sorry to hear about that...

Christ! You guys are two of my favorite DU-ers (although there are many others who I also enjoy) Chavez and I once got into a ridiculous brouhaha that got totally out of hand, but PM cleared everything up and soon all was jake. I guess cyberworld mirrors real world: both places where I have friends who can't stand one another.
And I am sure there are many about who can't stand me. And who can blame them? :)

[SOteric]

78. I'm really sorry you've had to go through this.

:hug: I know it's been a tough couple of weeks on you and the mods. Y'all need to spend a little extra time in the moderator hot tub. Let flamingyouth practice some of her massage techniques on the Admins.


:7

[cheezus]

81. Skinner, would you ever consider relinquishing control to the users?

I mean, the name of the website IS "democratic" underground. Would you consider turning your dictatorship into a democracy?

Edit: because replies indicate that I didn't express myself clearly.

I'm not saying that we should do away with the Admins and Moderators, I was just suggesting that those positions be filled based upon the will of the members. I'm not suggesting Skinner be replaced (I'm sure he'd win election in a landslide!), but that the community be involved in it's own leadership.

[Misunderestimator]

94. Hmm... How about anarchistunderground instead... looks like that's

what you'd prefer.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

98. Oh Please

Give me a break.

:eyes:

DTH

[Skittles]

99. what ARE you talking about?

stop it!

[JohnLocke]

101. ? (nt)

[Pale Blue Dot]

102. What makes me laugh about this

Is that DU would not be the place that it is without the control of DU and the moderators. I would give this place about 2 days of "democratic" control before it would implode.

If people don't like this website, that Skinner, EarlG, elad, and the moderators give their time - hell, their LIFE, to, then they are free to look for what they need elsewhere.

THAT is Democracy.

[DS1]

264. Talk about a circular firing squad!

The mind boggles at THAT idea!

[nini]

103. wow

Skinner has a right to run this place any way he wants just as we can stay or leave.

[last1standing]

106. Can you tell us all how you would propose to do that?

It's easy to make a cliched statement. it's much harder to provide a detailed plan with a reasonable chance of success.

[cheezus]

165. well, in general (sorry, no detailed plan)

the details would need some polishing, but here's what I meant:

run DU like a non-profit org. Have a board of directors, an executor, etc. The current rules are probably fine, but would be ratified by the members. Administrator becomes an office instead of a person, and that office is filled via some sort of democratic process.


That's the kind of change I was talking about, not some anarchist self moderating free for all like some apparently thought I meant.

[Misunderestimator]

171. Sounds great... I suggest you start a site just like that... I like DU

just as it is. The bureaucracy you describe would be quite a challenge. Good luck with all that. :toast:

[cheezus]

174. I like DU too

any large organization is a challenge to manage. That's why I won't be starting my own. Heck, if DU were to impliment my suggestion I wouldn't even run for an office (but I'd vote!)

[Taxloss]

182. Perhaps you'd support subscriptions to pay for the staff?

Mods work FOR FREE.

[cheezus]

190. sure would

I know the mods work for free, and I applaud them for their efforts. I also understand that bandwidth and cpu cycles are not free. Maybe the business model I'm thinking is more like a co-op?

[Taxloss]

200. We've both got stars. We know this is worth paying for.

But it needs to be kept free for the vulnerable, the occasional user and the browser. The instant it closes into a business plan, it will die.

(edited for typo)

[Taxloss]

180. It would sink in a week.

eom

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

191. No..it's Skinner's board and frankly mods have access to proprietary info

that I would never want some former users such as the sick individual who stalked me personally and online having.

[Taxloss]

206. An excellent point.

While we might not agree with mods' decisions, their ethical standards are remarkably high.

[Maddy McCall]

258. And I remember that, after said sick individual was banned...

some people didn't understand why, but she deserved it. Ten thousand times she deserved it. And, if she's still here now, as she has come back ten or fifteen times, she deserves it now.

You hear that, g - - - - - - -?

[blondeatlast]

207. Plenty of free space out there.

Let us know when you are set up, I'll be happy to take a look.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

110. jeez...i like ChavezSpeaksTheTruth a lot.

but your criticism is uncalled for and very rude

[cheezus]

181. rude? howso?

I didn't mean to be rude and I apoligize if anyone took it that way.
I was just floating an idea

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

112. Hahaha..that's funny. Start a board like that. Good luck.

[IronLionZion]

113. hey man, don't say that

Insulting Skinner will get you an ass whooping around here.

[sonicx]

118. Yeah, that works so well for Usenet...

[Plaid Adder]

121. Sweet Lord, NO!

I co-founded on online feminist community several years ago. We had a 6-member board and all decisions were made by either consensus or majority vote. That group split up under horrendous circumstances, largely because members of the board were scheming against each other over pointless shit that I still don't understand.

With 50,000 people in an online community you cannot have direct democracy. That's just going to lead to factions and infighting and assholes trolling unchecked. So there has to be some group of people entrusted with governance. There's a whole legion of volunteers moderating the different forums, so 'the people' are already involved.

Imagine what life would be like here if every member of DU had banning privileges. Go on, imagine it.

:scared:

I know how much of a pain in the ass/heartache it was trying to keep a community of 40 in one piece. This community, for the size that it is, functions extraordinarily well.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[cheezus]

172. good insight

your experience shows a hazard of rule-by-consensus that a sole authority doesn't have to deal with. I'm sure the politics of a political message board would be interesting, to say the least.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

195. So now maybe an apology to Skinner is in order since you described

this place as a dictatorship.

[cheezus]

204. what?

Main Entry: dic·ta·tor·ship
Pronunciation: dik-'tA-t&r-"ship, 'dik-"
Function: noun
1 : the office of dictator
2 : autocratic rule, control, or leadership
3 a : a form of government in which absolute power is concentrated in a dictator or a small clique b : a government organization or group in which absolute power is so concentrated c : a despotic state

Sorry if it was a poor choice of words, I don't know what else to call it. I wasn't meaning to insult Skinner in the least. I never said he was a BAD dictator!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

213. Ok...the inference is there whether you choose to acknowledge it or not

[Lerkfish]

262. sounds familiar. I used to mod a non-political fan group...

at first the group was small and completely democratic, and it worked fine. Then, the group grew and alliances started forming, cliques, that sort of thing. Then, as with any group dynamic, once cliques set in, hurt feelings abound, behind the scenes backstabbing, yadda yadda yadda. The mods were volunteer at first, and then everything they did began to be perceived as being motivated by loyalty to this clique or that clique. Then the members pushed for mod elections, with predictable results, as mods from clique A started reprimanding and banning those from clique B.
Finally, the group split right down the middle, irreconcilably. Oddly enough, roughly along generational lines...the old farts wanted to dilute power among the whole, the upstarts wanted to consolidate power on their side.

if it wasn't so heartbreaking to see a great thing dissolve, it was an interesting adventure in group dysfunction.

I finally gave up on both groups, to save my blood pressure.

It seems to happen naturally on groups as they grow larger: not sure if its the dichotomy between getting lost in the crowd and wanting to be noticed, or the tendency of some to be control freaks and shape others subconsicously to their will.

humans. we are messed up creatures.

[WilliamPitt]

151. I think the word I am groping for is

pzzzzzzzzzzzcheeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz

[roguevalley]

289. say what?

>pzzzzzzzzzzzcheeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzz

[bobbieinok]

178. The American Prospect had a great discussion board during 2000

it was disrupted so frequently that they finally closed it down

when Malloy was at WLS, the discussion board was constantly in trouble and they closed it down a few times

from those 2 examples and from what I've seen here...someone HAS to be in control....why not the ones who started the board and work to keep it running well in cyber space??????

if you want a free for all, then have it on your board

[cheezus]

198. I'm certainly not suggesting anything of the kind

definately not a free-for-all, that would be madness

the current system seems to work well, I'm just suggesting adding more community participation and transparency in its governance

[blondeatlast]

203. Rarely will I get involved in such stuff in the Lounge, but...

Surely you jest.

Please say you are kidding.

[Schema Thing]

233. Sheesh, what a Cheezus complex!

Just remember what came of that!

[Maddy McCall]

238. What a turdy thing to say.

[Pale Blue Dot]

88. As I've often said before, Skinner,

This is your bandwidth. We just borrow it. You've given liberals, progressives, and Democrats a place to meet, talk politics, and blow off steam. In exchange for this service, we only have to follow a few simple rules. It's a shame that this is too much to ask of some people.

As a former moderator, let me assure everyone that the moderators are exceedingly fair, and they give up countless hours, with little or no thanks, for the benefit of their fellow Dems.

I might add that it is a double shame for all of this to be happening the week after the death of a dear friend, who, despite his occasional frustrations with DU and the people on it, remained someone who ALWAYS FOLLOWED THE RULES.

[crispini]

104. Amen, Finnfan. nt

[TrustingDog]

146. good one, Finnfan. We have the privilege

...of being invited into Skinners livingroom. It takes a lot of work to be a good host, and if someone is so offensive to all other guests, kick the bum out.

[nini]

92. doesn't surprise me

he's been pushing the limits in more than one way lately.

Must have a doozy that put Skinner over the edge.

[ohiosmith]

95. The Mods did what they had to do. The reason is none of my business.

Hopefully he'll be back. If not, let this be a lesson to all of us.

[commander bunnypants]

115. do what you got to do friend

it is your place. I wont respond to the thread.. just curoius thoug. But hey Long live DU

karma Skinner

jon- thats is my real name.
I am do damn exhausted to make any sense

[BlueJazz]

116. Mr. SKinner. ...As I am so fond of telling people who want me ....

..to change MY (business)Web-Site. ..."It's my site and I have to do what's best for myself and my business. If something is wrong or goes wrong as least I can't blame it on somebody else's advice".

You know what's best for YOUR site and I am now... and always will respect that.

[DS1]

117. What's sad is DUers that know better are STILL trying to push

the limits, skirt the rules, post stuff that could be taken a number of different ways but everyone knows what they're up to.

I was hoping for a much bigger purge - I'll take this momemt to note that I've been super good about sex threads :7

[Bouncy Ball]

275. Yes, you have!

[terrya]

122. Chavez is a friend.

This is awful.

T

[JohnKleeb]

139. did you get my PM man?

I knew you guys were friends and we've talked today so I PMed you.

[terrya]

144. I just saw it, John.

I got offline for a bit...and saw this thread.

Thanks,

T

[JohnKleeb]

147. glad you did

I am sad he's gone, I wanna know what happened, and its been a hell of a week.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

154. i agree

[commander bunnypants]

123. and I know no sex threads

:)

do what you must friend

CB

[slutticus]

124. Nevermind....

Will not speculate.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

126. I hope he gets it cleaned up with you. None of us is exempt.

Sorry for your obvious upset. This has been a shitty week without all the problems.

[mcscajun]

131. Unusual circumstances call for unusual measures.

I'm only a newbie here (2.5 months on DU) but I've been 'in control' in other online forums, and I know it isn't easy managing one...it's harder than herding cats, if such a thing is possible. And this place is, face it, freakin' huge!

I give Skinner and the other admin/mods credit for applying the rules fairly to all, regardless of their length of membership. Sometimes, folks get too comfortable in a place where they are basically, guests, and begin to feel 'ownership', and yes, they can get past rambunctious.

I make no judgment on Chavez, 'cause I don't know him, and I don't know what he did. But I like the way this situation is being handled. The members can see that fair is fair regardless of longevity.

We've been given an explanation, and an outlet. I don't think pushing for more information that may be either a) none of our business, or b) wildly inappropriate to disclose, is any sort of a good idea.

JMHO.

[WilliamPitt]

134. Wow

This is an unprecedented thing, to have an admin thread about a banee.

It tells me that the mods and admins have been put through the wringer this week. I hope everyone takes this as a signal to lighten up on their load. Hope it happens.

[KoKo]

249. With Keph's death ...who needs extra shit right now...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

136. i liked ChavezSpeaksTheTruth and will miss him

mostly he annoyed people who deserved it.

i am sorry he did something stupid

[Texasgal]

201. I realy liked him too!

I actually had some nice PM's with him yesterday. I will miss him as well. I never saw anything nasty coming from him, ofcourse I am still pretty new.

Goodbye Chavez... it was nice knowing you.

[KoKo]

251. My little encounters..I like him too, but if he's posting women with

horses or otherwise "acting up" then he must have gotten a warning and maybe he "went off" like many of us "more emotional DU'ers do."

I'm not down here in the lounge enough to know his whole history...but I got sick of some of the "sicker" Lounge Threads...only because I never did a "block" on them in the "LBN" scroll. I didn't see the post that got "Chavez" banned because I either wasn't here or skipped over it the way I do with Lounge stuff if it's "off the wall" for my own sensibilities and tastes.

But, what dealings I had with him were few but not thinking he was a "freep."

He needed a "time out." I've gotten warnings myself...He will be back if he can make a case..:shrug:

[progmom]

292. I don't think he was posting pics of women with horses

If you go back and read, that was someone purely speculating.
Yikes - what a rumor!

[Thtwudbeme]

137. Damn!!! That must have been a doozy!!

I hope whatever he did was worth it to him-

[leftofthedial]

145. we liberals are just such jerks when it comes to pushing envolopes

I frankly don't know how Skinner and the mods do it.

:bows down and gives the "salami":

[qnr]

155. It's our liberal interpretation of things, I guess :/

Not me of course, I'm sweet and innocent.

[roguevalley]

169. Without this place, I would have cancer.

That said, I'm always a minute late to the weird stuff. There are so few rules here, it seems a shame not to honor them. I love this place. The eccentrics give it a kick. But this must have been over the top to get banned and then this. Take care, mods.

[Worst Username Ever]

162. Agreed. But better to push the envelope than toe the line.

Someone has to test the boundaries, and sometimes people go too far. I am sure Skinner had to do what he had to do, I wish he would let us in on it so we can at least maybe learn something.

[Ellen Forradalom]

166. Jeez

and I just sent him a mix CD.

I was never the target of any negative behavior, so I don't dislike him. The Lounge will be a bit less fun for lacking him.

[Arkana]

170. With my best Archie Bunker impression

I shall go "Huh?"

I really must have no clue what's going on here, because the sex threads ban hit me out of nowhere and now this? Oy.

[Trajan]

173. DU doesnt suck .....

Chavez wasnt my favorite poster, to put it mildly ....

YOU do whatcha gotta do , Skinner ....

I love DU .... Even with Chavez ... Even with bannings ...

[Donkeyboy75]

176. I hope whatever it was

was a misunderstanding, and I hope he can clear it up.

BTW, I haven't chimed in yet, but thanks for clamping down on the infamous threads. :hi:

[MisterP]

179. oh my; I hope this gets worked out so both parties are happy at the end of

the day

[terrya]

186. I agree.

Me, too. I hope this can be worked out for everyone's benefit...including Chavez.

[Kellanved]

196. let's hope so

Chavez is an integral part of the Lounge.

[rockymountaindem]

183. Lately it's been don't-blink-or-you'll-miss-something around here.

I've only been here for about a year, but it seems kind of like the age of innocence is over.

[slutticus]

192. Can we change "banned" to "banished". I like that better.

Kinda like, "Slutticus has been banished".

I like the sound of that better. It has a better ring to it.

[iconoclastic cat]

215. And we should say it with the Middle English emphasis on "ed"

[redqueen]

197. This makes me sad.

I hope he makes amends... :(

[XanaDUer]

205. It is sad when someone gets banned

it's like a death in the family.

For some people, DU is pretty much all they have.

[JohnKleeb]

208. yes it is

He was a good guy, I loved rubbing it in his face when the Yanks lost but Chavez was a good shit about that. I also appreciated it when he stood up for the younger people of the board that one time too. He'll be missed by me honest.

[MichaelHarris]

209. me too

I hate seeing good people get kicked around. I didn't know him nor do I know what he did but in reading some of his posts he seemed like an OK guy.

[progmom]

210. I don't know what Chavez did

...and I know that you need to do what it takes to keep this board running. I can't tell you how much I love having DU in my life.

That being said, if Chavez does reach out to you, would you consider letting him back? In the few months that I have been here, I have really grown fond of him. He seems to be one of the good ones.

Thanks for giving us this outlet.

[stellanoir]

218. Oh I don't know what happenned

But his threads often made me smile. I'm sure you have your reasons and hope things will reconcile soon.

Thanks for your efforts and hope he returns soon,

Best

[elperromagico]

221. Well... he liked John Coltrane.

That's all I have to say on this matter.

[NNadir]

241. That's all I really noted about him...Coltrane.

But I was into Coltrane for decades without ChavesSpeaksTheTruth's help, so it's not like anything will personally change for me.

For what it's worth, websites are like towns and lives, people come and go. Sometimes the sheriff runs you out of town, and sometimes you just move on your own and sometimes your subscription to the universe expires.

So it goes.

[DS1]

231. On second thought, there is a possibility this was another "server glitch"

that make things move around all on their own...

[deminflorida]

236. Gee, must have been something screwed up....

I mean we are liberals, or progressives....you know open to most anything, i.e. cutting edge...

So, I'll take Skinners word for it. It must have been really something screwed up to get banned from DU. These guys are really decent Mods, being a Mod is a tough job. No explanation needed for me.

Shit, I hope the guy doesn't start voting Republican now or even worse go over to the Dark side. "DARF-FREEPER" or "FREEPERFER, the dark angel .

[Schema Thing]

237. It was all the advice I gave the Mods in the "Jehovah's Witness" thread

..yesterday.

I wasn't sayin' disfellowshipping is a good thing!
:evilgrin:

[CatBoreal]

239. Go out for dinner and all Hades breaks loose....

Hey Skinner,

Newby over here. I've been on many a board and I *know* it's hard to be a mod, so first off, kudos to you and the others for doing a fine job.

That said, I trust you guys If you felt Chavez had to be banned, then so be it.

I hope he apologizes and if he does, that you'll see fit to share it with the board and get *private* input as to whether he should come back. You get final say, but from what I've seen (and I admit, I just skimmed) CSTT has hurt quite a few people and I think they should get a say in the matter.

Like I said, I'm a newby so I know my opinion isn't worth much, but I thought I would give you my $0.02 (CDN) ;)

[Wat_Tyler]

244. Yeah - let's list the people that bastard Chavez has hurt.......

I'll have to get back to you on that one.

[Beware the Beast Man]

246. You just admitted 2 things:

1. You're just a newbie
2. You just skimmed.

You do not know him. Who are these people he has "hurt"? Where are the bodies? How many marriages has he broken? How many restraining orders are currently against him?

You do not know him. Don't try to passively act as if you do.

[CatBoreal]

266. You're right I don't know Chavez from a hole in the ground....

...but I trust the mods, if they said he did something that deserved banishment, then it's fine by me.

From what I read while skimming, it seems ZombieWoof (see post # 91) had issues, while others found him merely annoying. As well, the breach of trust which got him bounced could be constured as hurtful.

I don't know ZombieWoof from Adam either. He could be a complete a** and deserve everything that CSTT tossed his way. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll apologize. I just think that anyone who's directly involved in said ban-worthy act (unless it's something that affects all of us, like hacking the board) should have some sort of say as to whether he's allowed back.

And I'm not passively doing anything. I'm actively stating an opinion.

[Beware the Beast Man]

269. I don't condone nor defend what Chavez did, not in any respect,

just, please, don't trust some sources, because quite obviously they project their own faults and shortcomings among other DUers.

[CatBoreal]

281. I know that...

I'm a veteran of enough message boards to know that much.

I just think the individuals who are involved in his...oh lets call it an indiscretion..., outside of the mods, should have a say in whether his priviledges are re-instated.

Das it, das all.

[Left Is Write]

284. I don't agree.

First, whatever got him banned didn't necessarily have to do with anyone else.

Second, the mods and admins have the say. Period.

Third, almost any person here is likely to have been involved in at least one conflict with another person. Should everyone who ever had conflict with a banned person be able to influence admin decision to bring that person back? Whether someone has a legitimate gripe or just an axe to grind is probably already known to admin anyway.

[Guy Fawkes]

240. Interesting...

But where does one draw the line between decency and censorship?

[Misunderestimator]

243. There may be more to this than simply a question of censorship...

without knowing what actually happened... I trust that Skinner had a very good reason for this.

[Taxloss]

245. It is not censorship. We are guests of Skinner. If he says leave,

you must leave. This is the private domain, albeit a remarkably free-spirited part of it.

[AwakeAtLast]

247. I trust you Skinner, and thank you

for giving us one thread to house all of the discussion. I don't think anyone likes to see banned members, but if it was what had to be done, then it had to be done. This is a great site, and I would not stay long if administrators were not fair in their decisions.

I do hope that the divide can be crossed.

May you and the Moderators have a restful end to a stressful week.

[necso]

248. Do whatever you have to.

The mods, admins and yourself have shown tremendous tolerance, patience and understanding with the members (including me). And I know that sometimes we fail to show appropriate appreciation and respect in return. But no one can speak fairly of your efforts here (or elsewhere I suspect) without reference to those qualities.

As far as I am concerned, when a member goes beyond a certain point, it constitutes a direct attack... and this is not to be tolerated. But I know that you are much more compassionate (etc) than I am... and this is a good thing.

Don't let them get you down. As a community, we simply can't afford it.

[sendero]

250. I guess...

.... I'm glad I don't hang around the Lounge enough to follow all these intrigues. :)

But I've exchanged words with Chavez many times and didn't have any idea he was a "problem", he was always a model DU citizen to me.

I hope he can make amends with the mods and come back, I think he will be missed.

[Wat_Tyler]

252. It's your board, Skinner - I know what Chavez did, and it's your decision.

But, if you're going to put this thread up for him, I'd like to see it for others - I'd have liked to have seen this thread for Ginger Snaps, among others. Reading this thread is like wading through gossip, misinformation and innuendo (and not a little ban-worthy vitriol from one particular DUer, who you'd have thought would be a little more sympathetic as he himself has been on the wrong end of a tombstone at one point), and it's the gossip that cause DU so much harm. Personally, I think you should just state why people were tombstoned - otherwise, you'll be dealing with all this for a long time to come.

[Susang]

259. I agree

And thanks. ;-)

[KoKo]

260. Wat...maybe you should just PM us with your info...that would put an end

to it...oh, heck...I might get banned for asking...because of Admins policy...so NEVERMIND! FORGET I ASKED...YIKES...

[JimmyJazz]

261. I agree - I think the wrong people are putting their two cents in.

[terrya]

265. I agree. I wish Skinner sees this.

I hate seeing this excellent post get lost among some of the mindless, hateful crap on here.

Thanks for saying some things that should be said.
T

[Zomby Woof]

276. correction

Chavez is at the right end of the tombstone. I was the only one on the wrong end. ;-)

Nice try.

[Jesus H. Christ]

297. LOL.

Good on yah.

[StopTheMorans]

304. I agree too nt

[Piperay]

253. I don't know what happened

but I trust the decisions of the admins and if they banned him they must have had a good reason.

[BikeWriter]

254. Good leadership move discussing it here, Skinner. n/t

[donheld]

255. I'm sorry to know this has happened

I trust Skinner to make the right decision. I just hope Chavez can make amends and come back.

[curse10]

257. he doesn't deserve this thread

banned members are banned for a reason- it's never done on a whim and we should all be happy that a disruptor is no longer with is.

Good riddance, I say.

[jonnyblitz]

263. i figure the offense must have been something truly deserving

of banishment to warrent this thread to begin with, just like you said this is "never done on a whim",therefore whether one likes/dislikes the person banned is moot. very simple.

[BikeWriter]

267. True, but by having this thread there's no excuse for dozens more. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

271. sorry to hear this....i enjoyed his posts

[Taverner]

272. Thanks for the thread

I don't know anything about this whole thing, but thanks for leaving a place to discuss this. Goes to show we liberals are not so black and white, and thats a good thing.

[Bat Boy]

277. That does it...

We're officially a family. And Chavez just puked in the punch bowl at Thanksgiving.

I may get a bit sappy here. Please don't judge me on that. I'm really a cold, harsh bastard, and don't you forget it.

What I got from Skinner's post wasn't a controlling dictatorial rant. I'm reading "hurt." I can understand that. That makes sense.

The thing that has kept me at DU is this bizarre sense of family, and I don't think I'm alone there. As with any family this size (what is it now, 60,000?) sometimes people fuck up and do stupid shit. When you get this large the fuck-ups increase exponentially. I don't know what it was here, but it was obviously a whopper.

Families forgive. Maybe not right away, but eventually.

I like Chavez. I hope that happens.

[Zomby Woof]

285. yeah

And Susan is making Uncle Zomby sleep out on the sofa AGAIN.

[Bat Boy]

287. Just don't wet the sofa again.

Takes us forever to get the smell out.

[name not needed]

299. Nature's MIracle tends to work well.

Of course you may need to have him fixed. :o

[Bat Boy]

302. I've tried...

He just won't hold still.

Seems he thinks "it's gonna hurt." I keep telling him, "only 'til you pass out. Stop being such a weiner."

[name not needed]

303. Ya gotta lure him with an onion.

;)

[Left Is Write]

286. A sense of family is what keeps me here too.

As bizarre as it can get around here, I feel comfortable knowing that we are all here with a common thread, regardless of what our other differences may be. And, though I do not know Skinner personally as some of you do, I read "hurt" in his post as well.

[Bouncy Ball]

279. I just want to say

to Skinner, thank you for DU. I honestly don't know what I would do without this place. After the election, I would KNOW there were 59 million others out there who felt the way I did, but would have no way of talking to 60,000 of them. With this, I do. I live in a red state, so it's extra important for me. I feel alone.

I need to make another contribution to DU. This place is worth its weight in gold.

(I think this kind of stuff is why I have been subconsciously afraid of applying to be a mod.)

[vetwife]

305. We crossed up several times

I don't know specifically what he did this time though.
Posters on this board have been posting some wierd things here though lately IMO.

[Bouncy Ball]

307. Did you accidentally post this to me?

Or was it to me? Confused...

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

290. Skinner, DU doesn't suck. Please, give us some credit.

I don't know what happened with Chavez. And I do agree with some of the people here: your Web Site, your rules, Chavez broke the rules, c'est la vie.

But this is GEORGE W. BUSH'S America. Think about that for a moment.

Chavez pissed you off.

Shit happens.

Count the gold stars on DU...the people who believed in your Web Site enough to donate money, whether they could easily afford it or not...and spend a moment wondering why they did.

Count your blessings and get over this Chavez thing. You have work to do. We ALL do.

:toast:

[gardenista]

291. I'm sorry to hear this, for all involved. Chavez was kind to me

in a recent thread in the Catholic and Orthodox group.

I don't know what he did, so can't really comment on it, but I hope that he'll be able to do whatever it takes to return, if he wants to.

I'm also sorry that the Mods have been through probably one of the toughest weeks on DU.

Hope it all works out.

[Burma Jones]

293. Hey Skinner, it must be very interesting to know all the

stuff you can find out about any of us........

You are kinda a hybrid of Santa Claus, J. Edgar Hoover and Papa Smurf....

I admire your ability to run this mess as well as you do.

Good Luck in Indiana and thanks for representing.................

[name not needed]

294. It sucks that he was banned.

I don't know whether he deserved it or not, as all I know of are rumors and accusations. I hope that he will be back soon. On another note, I feel that certain members who shall remain nameless have taken advantage of this thread to badmouth Chavezspeaksthetruth, and to spread rumors about his activities while he was still here. This forum has changed drastically since I first came here. And I must say, it has changed for the worse, especially in the last few months. It's been a steady downturn since the primary, but sped up quite a bit following the election.

[Zomby Woof]

300. it's no rumor

And if you doubt me, consider the UNPRECEDENTED step of Skinner posting a thread about a banned member. I know from experience that Skinner is EXTREMELY PATIENT AND FAIR, and if I did what Chavez did, I would have been rightfully banned too. With a thread.

[Dookus]

310. How do you know what Chavez did?

[StopTheMorans]

311. regardless of the nature of the banning, the piling-on of people in here

while said person can't defend himself is pathetic. If you didn't like the guy, then great, you got your wish, he's gone. Is it really necessary for people to pad their egos by picking on someone who has no way of defending himself?

[JimmyJazz]

313. Hear. Hear.

[Misunderestimator]

315. I haven't seen a "piling on"... Mainly people have agreed that Skinner

has the right to ban whomever he sees fit, and that Chavez must have gone over the line. Piling on is when more than a couple of people, um... pile on someone. Not when one person has critical things to say. At least it's all in one thread, for that, I am grateful.

I hold no opinion about Chavez, who seemed to be a fun guy who most people seemed to like. We never had a conversation, so I hold no judgement, other than that I have enough trust in the admins of the site to make the right call.

[Vinnie From Indy]

308. I Bet He Left The Seat Up On The Toilet For The Last Time!!!!

It's too bad he wasn't releasing a new album. He could put
"BANNED BY DU MAN" on his CD cover and sell millions!

[Catherine Vincent]

312. Could at least be nice and tell us what he did....

Not why but what.

[Skinner]

314. I'm locking this thread.

It served it's purpose.

But at this point I think perhaps it has outlived it's usefulness, and it's time for us to put it to rest.

[TroubleMan]

316. I saw it locked for a little, but now it's not

My 2 cents.

I hate in-fighting and I hope this can all be resolved. I personally like CSTT, but I have no idea what he did.