I'm not now and never will be a Mac person, but that new Mac mini

[ET Awful]

is pretty damned cool :)



It doesn't have the oomph to do a lot of what I'd need to do (as far as video encoding, gaming, etc. goes), but for a typical home user, I'd say it's pretty damned good.

It's a very cool basic machine that I think would be ideal for someone who uses their PC only for surfing the web, basic word processing, and other simple tasks. Especially when you look at the size, 6.5" x 6.5" x 2" That's SMALL.

I haven't said this in many, many years, but I'll say it now. . . GOOD JOB APPLE.

[tsakshaug]

1. yes it is

but I am a mac person

[benburch]

2. You don't have to be a "Mac Person"

To use a Mac. You just need to be somebody who would rather get things done than fix the computer.

[ET Awful]

3. Mmmmhmmm

Bullshit. My PC has been on 24/7 for almost a year now with nothing needing to be fixed.

[benburch]

4. Your mileage may vary.

But if you download and install software from the internet, and don't at least fuss monthly with the antiviral and antispyware software for your machine, I wonder at your sanity? I am not a Mac bigot; I have a Win-2000 machine here and a Linux box. I use the PC for whatever jobs a PC makes sense for. I simply know for fact that there are 0.0001% of the virus and other malware problems with a Mac.

[ET Awful]

5. The reason there are fewer virii and malware issues for the Mac is

because the Mac is not in as wide usage and never will be. It is not because the Mac is impervious to such things, but because the developers of such things seek the widest possible audience, thus they design their trash for the Windows environment. . . . You did know that didn't you?

I manage not only my machine, but a small network of just over 100 other machines. No "fuss" over such things is required because I have anti-virus software that updates itself daily, I also have spyware utilities that automatically update over the network on a weekly basis.

In 3 year of managing my network in this manner, I've had only 4 PC's that required extensive work due to malware or virii. All 4 were laptops that the users took outside my network.

I wonder at the sanity of someone who would make a blanket statement such as you made while knowing that it is entirely untrue.

[benburch]

6. Does the reason there are no viruses matter?

It does NOT matter to me. I run White Rose on OSX machines. People try to crash me each and every day. I know this because I look at the system and Apache logs. Nobody has ever succeeded.

So, I really do NOT care that the reason there are so few bits of malware is because nobody bothers to write them!!! The effect is the same.

And if your experience with managing a Windows network has been positive, that's a good thing. Perhaps things have improved since I had to manage dozens of NT-4 and Windows-95 machines in an engineering network, but that was a nightmare. In contrast, my Sun and Linux machines were no problems to maintain whatsoever. (We had a few Macs running System-8 and Tenon's Mach-10 Unix, but not enough to form a basis for comparison.)

I also know that my friends who manage large networks of Windows-2000 and Windows-XP systems (Including at big companies like Motorola) complain about being hit by every new worm that comes along before the virus scanner patches appear. Motorola routinely has to email users and post notices on the elevator doors to let people know not to open certain emails in outlook. Motorola has had a number of network-wide infections in the last 12 months, and they have automatic virus and system update on each and every machine.

So, I do NOT "know" my statements to be untrue. I think your experience has been a particularly fortunate one!

[ET Awful]

8. So you are using your experience with a 10 year old OS and comparing

it to a new Mac OS/

Yeah, that's a valid comparison.

[benburch]

18. No...

I am depending on my experiences consulting very recently with Motorola.

Their network is a mess, and it is nearly 100% Windows-2000 and Windows-XP with outlook.

However, I was not managing the network there, but heard many stories from the people whose job that was.

[ET Awful]

21. Ah, so you're comparing a company that didn't manage their network

properly and using an example of incompetence to prove your case.

Makes sense.

[benburch]

28. Didn't manage their network?

They have thousands of people (literally) worldwide doing just that every minute of the day!!!

They managed their network really well, but when exploits appear daily, and you are a very large target, nothing you do other than restricting people from accessing the internet is sufficient to prevent problems. Period. There is always a period of time between when a new exploit is in the field and when the virus labs issue their updates.

The count of the number of Windows Viruses broke 100,000 in 2004.

The total number of Mac OSX viruses - One, the SH/Renopo worm, never seen in the "wild" so far as my sources indicate, and the subject of a security patch months ag.

The total number of Mac "Classic" viruses - Less than 100.

Why would you trust anything important to a platform that is such a huge target?

I'm not saying "Use a Mac", I'm just saying "Don't Use Windows". Linux is a great alternative for almost anybody.

[ET Awful]

30. If they had that many viruses, then they did not manage their network

properly. They aren't the only corporation guilty of it. Cisco has done the same thing. I know of at least 2 major pharmaceutical companies with offices throughout the world that have done the same thing.

Once again, if they are experiencing that many problems, it's through incompetence on their own part.

[benburch]

33. And if they had a network of OSX machines?

Would they have had any viruses at all?

[ET Awful]

36. If they had OSX machines, most of their business would have come to

a screeching halt because every high level application they used from accounting on down would have had to be replaced, recustomized, rewritten, tested and validated.

[benburch]

48. Motorola was in a cycle of replacing all of their high level applications.

They do it every few years.

So, this wouldn't really have been a barrier.

[ET Awful]

56. LOL . . they replace all their high level applications every few years?

I'm going to call bullshit on that too.

See, to replace all high level applications in a corporation of that size takes more than a few years. Hell, just the roll-out of a new application takes over a year in many cases.

Sorry, I don't buy it for a second.

[benburch]

58. Disbelieve me if you like.

The changeover was creating major problems!!! It was the result of a total management suite shakeup a couple years ago.

[ET Awful]

59. Soooo, what you're saying is that due to a poorly managed and designed

network, they had to replace high level applications, which would imply a one time change, not "every few years", and it would also imply that my initial point of it being a poorly managed network was pretty accurate.

[benburch]

70. No...

I was saying that due to a change of CEOs and directors and spinoff of many divisions, they were directed by management to change just about everything. They changed the way they were running the business and that change in business is what drove this.

[ET Awful]

72. Which gives lie to your claim that they do it every few years, exactly

like I said. You can't have it both ways.

Either they do it every few years, or they did it this time because of a huge restructuring. Only one can be true.

[benburch]

73. Well, they also did it when I was an employee in 1993.

And again for Y2K.

[ET Awful]

74. So let's see, they did it at a time when most corporations were doing it

in 1993 as a matter of course, when the entire corporate community was still getting out of the dumb terminal way of thinking and migrating to individual networked PCs, and they did it when the entire planet was reworking their in-house and high-level application programs due to poor design and management to allow for Y2K protocols (which by the way was also a problem for Macs, as it was an application program, had nothing to do with OS).

So once again, it doesn't amount to "every few years" it amounts to either a major platform migration, or fixed others incompetence . . . just like I said.

[benburch]

77. You have me confused!

1993, 2000, and 2004 sure look like every few years to me! I think you just don't want to concede a point to me for some reason I cannot fathom.

My original point was that this sort of thing happens, and when it does, it is an opportunity to do a complete platform change. In the case of Motorola, it has happened every few years. I FULLY expect in 4-6 years some other change in their business will cause yet another revision, and possibly a platform change. There are a lot of Linux advocates in Motorola.

[ET Awful]

80. TO say "every few years" implies that it is a regularly scheduled event

which is not the case.

They did it at times when there were precipitous changes in the industry, and, in the case of Y2K due to poor planning and incompetence of their network engineers to begin with.

[benburch]

83. I've hardly ever seen somebody try so hard...

to miss the point entirely.

[ET Awful]

84. I know, you really should try and get past your

insane pro-Macintosh bias.

[AndyTiedye]

31. OSX., Linux, OpenBSD, and Windoze (only when we have to)

I had been rather hoping for a dual 3-gig G5. Oh well.

We run a bit of everything at home: Mac OSX for the desktop, Linux
for Myth-TV, Open BSD for the servers, and Windoze for that stuff that
can't run on anything else. Never gotten viri on any of them, but we
do *not* read mail or do web browsing on the Windows box, and we have
a Cisco box as a firewall.

Windoze servers insice our company have been hit by virii many times,
despite frequently-updated anti-virus software.

[MichaelHarris]

62. amen

brutha. Only computers I've ever owned are the ones I build myself.

[DS1]

14. I've had my mothers G4 crash on me twice as many times as my

XP machine, and all I tried to do was surf the web, where on my XP box I put it through hell on a daily basis and it handles the abuse just fine.

Well, there was that time I tried to uninstall service pack 2, but we don't talk about that round these parts :7

[ET Awful]

22. And what the HELL does "An Error of Type 2 Has Occurred" mean

anyway? :)

That makes less sense than "PC Load Letter."

[barackmyworld]

63. error type 2 is memory

usually the program needs to be allocated more ram...

[benburch]

79. And not at all in current software.

That sort of error is only found in Classic mode applications.

But, having said that, I have some game software from 1984 that I can still run in Classic.

[benburch]

32. What browser are you using?

Microsoft Internet Exploder is evil, even on a Mac.

Also, what version of the OS?

I serve 6 GB of apache data a day from this machine, and surf the web, and run a mailing list server, and record audio streams, and chat all day every day from this G4 eMac running the most current version of OSX, and the only thing that will crash it is a particular USB disk drive I own, and I cannot make Apple responsible for the funky third party driver.

[DS1]

42. Safari, OS X Jaguar

[benburch]

51. Interesting.

And the whole machine crashed, not just Safari?

I've never had that happen.

My configuration;

1 GHz eMac, 768 MB RAM, 80 GB internal drive, three external firewire drives of 80, 60, and 120 GB, respectively.

My machine is in the DMZ zone of my network, and hence, open to direct attack from the network, and people try to take it down each and every day. I also run a mailing list server (Macjordomo) three shoutcast mirrors, a peercast streamer, and an SFTP server. I also record internet live internet screams using iNet Stream Archiver, and Audio Hijack Pro.

I also have all of the fink open source software on this and I develop applications using the GNU tools in an X-Window.

And I have zero problems playing the occasional game or two (Master Of Orion 3) while ALL of this happens.

The only Mac I have that crashes is a Rev. 'A' iMac that I built out of spare parts, none of which were exactly well treated. I run OSX on it, and record shows with it, and it has crashed twice in the last six months. Very annoying. I am suspecting the power supply.

[benburch]

68. One more question?

Is your Mom's G4 plugged into a good UPS?

If not, your problem might be electrical in nature. I've seen that before.

If you are in the same house as your Mom, and would thus have similar electrical conditions, is her computer plugged in with other loads on that socket, and is it a properly grounded outlet, or is she using a "cheater" with a ground lug?

[da_chimperor]

46. My power book G4 crashed a few times when I had OSX 10.0

but since 10.1 I've never had a crash.

[solinvictus]

7. Mac vs. Windows PC

Look at the industry that springs up around every damned Windows release with the purpose of fixing Windows security and/or operating issues. I just bought an iBook and my next desktop will be another Mac. To give you an example, I leave my iBook on 24/7 with no slowdowns or other issues. Windows XP slows after a few hours of normal use and, if you want it to run more efficiently, it seems you must spend extra $$ on software fixes. It's like the old Apple commercial back in 1995, "Remember, Windows 95 is Mac/OS 1988".

[ET Awful]

9. LOL . . . BULLSHIT

Sorry but XP does NOT slow down after a few hours normal use. That is complete bullshit. Having been using XP since early Beta, can state with complete certainty that statement is complete nonsense.

[Deja Q]

27. See my other post, but I second your comment. Utterly...

Maybe third it as well since I've two XP machines I can vouch for. O8)

[BiggJawn]

11. Less Filling...No, Tastes GREAT!

You guys crack me up. Wish some script kiddies would start writing for Mac just to shut this debate up.

[ET Awful]

16. Well, if these guys get their way and their preaching works, more people

will start using Macs, which means more people will start writing malware to attack them.

[Deja Q]

20. Agreed. Any system is vulernable. ANyone who says it isn't drank the

k00l-aid.

[ET Awful]

24. Yup, you'll never hear me say PC's are invulnerable, but I will say

that I have pretty damned good security on my home PC and my network at work. Neither has had any problems in years. There were the 4 remote users I talked about, but they were easy enough to fix.

[BiggJawn]

60. Same with me.

Been running Win2K since it was the Latest Thing (replaced that "virus" WinME with it) and have not seen a Blue Screen of Death since. That's been oh, what? 4? 5? years now? firewalls and updated anti-virals do just fine around here.

Both platforms have theiir points both good and bad. I'm excited abpout the new mini-Mac, too. It's cute.

It reminds me of a guy I used to know. We both rode BMW's. (before BMW was Cool) Then I got a Harley Davidson. Went over to his house to show it off. he looked at it then said "I'm gonna have to ask you to leave now. I'm having some club members (BMW rider's club) over, and I don't want them to have to see this THING..."

I never spoke to the guy again. I see Mac People as BMW club riders. Intolerant of any other platform. The "True Light" thing, IMO.

[benburch]

23. Skript Kiddiez are not generally smart enough.

I have do doubt that the bad Mac OSX exploit will come along some day, but the average Skript Kiddiez are very, very dumb, and only exploit Windows because it is so very easy to find new holes in every week.

In contrast, Mac-OSX is Free-BSD based, and has a lot of open source in it. This ensures that thousands of eyes have looked at all of the code for years. If there are holes, they are not obvious!

[ET Awful]

25. Actually "script kiddies" don't find the holes, they take someone elses

malicious code and modify it and nudge it. Nothing to it.

But, guess what, even a software based firewall and minimal attention to security stops 'em dead in their tracks.

[benburch]

64. Correct you are.

And they are not smart enough to read and understand code from a RISC processor enough to properly insert their tweaks. Look at how badly they screw up with X86 code, and it is much easier.

Have you ever learned to read PPC machine code?

Still, you could write a virus for OSX. You really could. I believe that. The fact that only one person has ever bothered still makes this platform the obvious choice for an Internet machine!!!

That's why I have Virex on my machine, and update it regularly. It reliably finds all of the Word Macro Viruses and other Windows malware that comes into my machine through my email, and reliably removes it so I don't accidentally pass it on to some poor Windows user. Virex, BTW comes with my .Mac subscription. .Mac is an amazing way to host high bandwidth content!

Now, the meta-discussion; I'm not trying to run YOU down. I'm just saying that you really ought to consider that there are better choices for the average home computer user than Windows! Mac OSX is stable in my very high risk environment, and I think it would be equally stable on my nephew's dorm room desk.

[Deja Q]

26. I've had TWO XP-based video processing machines up for over 3 WEEKS:

There is NO slowness between projects.

One of the computers has far more applications installed on it; and its encoding times are virtually identical to that on the other computer, which was newly formatted.

I have not needed to reboot EVEN ONCE on either of them.

I'd checked the Task Manager between DVD encoding runs and found no memory leaks or errant programs.

I don't know where you apple FUDdie-duddies conjure up this trumped up nonsense that XP slows down, but please stop spreading FUD and disinformation. As living proof of the contrary to your colorful claims, I am outraged.

I use smart computing - firewalls and antivirus programs and being vigilant as to where I go. THAT is why I don't get viruses.

And the most embarrassing aspect: I much prefer Linux and loathe Microsoft. It's a personal defeat for me to even think of defending XP... not really, I hate Apple as much (Stevie Jobs once said that given the opportunity, he'd have done everything Gates did too. There is NO DIFFERENCE. And keep in mind he made deals with schools all those years. Not out of altruism but to entrench his product in an area that would ensure him a steady income. That's tantamount to exploitatilon.

Oh, Apple did NOT invent the GUI or mouse. Both of those were invented by Xerox in 1972. Apple merely "borrowed" the technology and some Xerox employees and slithered around the inevitable lawsuit. Gates merely stole from a thief.

Remember, think. Don't think different. Nobody else does in the first place.

[ET Awful]

10. What I find extremely funny about this thread, is that the Mac people

are in such a rush to attack anything PC related that they can't accept a small amount of praise without spewing their uninformed bias.

This is really quite entertaining.

[BiggJawn]

13. Almost like religious Fundies, arent they?

Was wondering where the FreeBSD and LINUX acolytes were...

Kinda like somebody looking down their nose and saying "MY Barrista uses ONLY Fair-Trade, Shade-Grown beans..."

[Deja Q]

29. And PC people can be the same at times...

Myself not excluded, but I at least justify my point of view and I've been inclined to attack Micro$oft execs too... :evilgrin:

Ultimately, I'm a big proponent of open-source. It's no-less insecure, perhaps a bit more secure, and eminently more interesting. Not to mention LOWER COST - which is why Apple, bless its slithering soul, will eventually go under. They're running out of people and institutions to exploit. (I did not need a pricey Mac with pricier software to do on a PC with freeware and reasonably priced shareware that delivers EXCELLENT results. It's a myth, and nothing more, that Macs are better at one or two types of application. It's not the app in the end, but the OS. But only when it isn't the App, and if you hadn't noticed, big name one-time die-hard Mac companies like Adobe have increasingly ditched the Mac entirely...)

[ET Awful]

34. I agree for the most part, but until I can go and get apps off the shelf

like the new SQL based accounting software I'm installing for my company next week, I am disinclined to use anything but PC.

[DS1]

12. There's been PC versions of entertainment boxes since 2001

I'm jes sayin' :-)

[ET Awful]

15. I know, I've even built a few small form factor machines myself

But I haven't seen one that was smaller than most external IDE enclosures before :)

I have seen a P4 machine of similar size, but it had no internal optical drive.

I'd still opt for the PC for my own use, but I wouldn't feel bad recommending this to a friend or relative :).

[DS1]

17. I've seen one that was 6x5x8

inches, that is.

Sure, it's bigger than this new devices, but everything techy gets smaller over the years.

[Deja Q]

19. $200 monitor and $100 keyboard not included... And for WHAT?!

256MB RAM? (gee, is OS X so much of an OX that they deemed 128MB insufficient when fleecing their customers?)

40GB hard drive? That'll be great when their iPod of the same capacity gets filled up. :eyes:

I'm amazed it has a CD-RW drive.

For $800, I'd rather get that $500 low-end piece of crap frm Best Buy that has a monitor, twice as much RAM, much more hard drive space, DVD multi-format burner (and DVD burning is very cost effective these days), and whose AMD or lesser-GHz P4 COULD be used for gaming or video encoding.

Apple is fleecing the ignorant, once again. I wonder who is behind it all... I am so sick people blindly praising these buffoons, while not bothering to really compare specs or included components.

It's like that HP 3740 (?) printer for $35. Lacks a USB cable ($12) and black cartridge ($20). Hmmm, that $35 great deal is now $67, and how long do those ink cartridges last? 20 pages? Oops. Deal no more.

And if somebody wanted only a word processor or e-mail box; those $249 devices that'll do both and include a monitor and neat internet-like subscription services work just as well.

Good job, NOT!

Hello, even apple's web site caused sluggishness with my Firefox browser. Screw 'em.

Anybody who wants a computer better get something decent, or get one of those standalone appliances. There is no middle road. The mini is underpowered for the masses and a bit much for people who don't use a computer for anything that a computer should be used for.

It's the modern day Lisa.

[Guaranteed]

35. Keyboard- $40. Just bought one. nt

[ET Awful]

37. Wow. . . every PC I've ordered for my company in the past 4 years

came with a keyboard and a mouse. . . .

[Guaranteed]

38. My G4 came with one, too.

But I spilled beer on it.

Again, $40.

[ET Awful]

39. Bet you didn't get your G4 with 512 mb of RAM, a 60 GB hard drive

and a DVD burner for under $700 though. I won't go in to processor speed because that's a whole new argument, but I can get 2.6 ghz machines for under $700.

[Guaranteed]

43. No, but on the other hand I haven't gotten one error on it in

two years.

[ET Awful]

44. Mmmhmmm, and I can say the same of dozens of PC's I've built

or ordered for under $700 with all of the hardware mentioned above, plus a monitor.

[Guaranteed]

45. I've never seen a PC last more than three years.

NEVER. And I've seen a lot of them.

[ET Awful]

47. LOL . . . I've got a PC in one of my labs at work that's running

Windows 3.1 and has been for 10 years. It never gets turned off, it's used for printing labels for our products.

I've got another PC in my phone room that handles our voice mail. It's running DOS, it's been going for 12 years.

[benburch]

53. I have a 1GHz G4...

Hardware Overview:

Machine Model: eMac
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (3.3)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 1 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
Memory: 768 MB
Bus Speed: 133 MHz

ATY,RV200:

Type: display
Bus: AGP
VRAM (Total): 32 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x5157
Revision ID: 0x0000
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxx-116

Display:

Type: display
Display Type: CRT
VRAM (In Use): 32 MB
Resolution: 1280 x 960 @ 72 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes


And an 80 GB internal hard disks, and another 300 GB on firewire.

And yes it came with a mouse and keyboard I never used, as I like the ones I have.

And it has a nice 17" monitor, and a 32 MB fast graphics engine, built in!

The Machine cost $790. The extra RAM cost another $112. The external firewire disks cost about $350, total.

Try as you may, you cannot make this into a bad bargain, especially since it has proven over months of direct assault by freeper skript kiddiez to be hacker-proof!

[ET Awful]

54. So no, you didn't get it for under $700 with a DVD burner, 512MB of

RAM, etc.

Thanks.

And a whole 32MB of video ram? Sorry, the standard these days is 128MB, with most top of the line video adapters having 256.

What exactly is a "freeper" script kiddy?

[benburch]

57. Well, I got it a year ago.

It would be cheaper now.

And it has more than a DVD-R burner, it has a DVD-RW burner, so adjust your baseline for that.

And, does your machine include a 17" Monitor? And did it have any bundled software, or did you have to buy Windows and Office for it?

And how much did you pay for antivirus and antispyware software to make it usable? Not a fair comparison should you have pirated any of that. (Note I am not judging.)

[ET Awful]

61. Ummm, ALL DVD burners are DVD-RW these days, have been

for a couple of years. All of them as of the past 6 months or so have been DVD -/+ R/RW and for the past 3 months have been dual layer.

My machines include 19" monitors, and Windows XP Professional. Seeing as we have a corporate site license for the Office Professional package (which is considerably more robust than the included minimalist apps for Macintosh), I'm not too concerned about those.

[benburch]

67. Were I buying in quantity...

I'd get great discounts, too!

Compare with the cost for an individual user;

He has to buy the machine at retail.

Current retail price for an eMac G4 1.25GHz/ 256MB/ 80GB/ SuperDrive/ E/ 56K, with software bundle (Appleworks, Quicken, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand, World Book 2004 Edition, Sound Studio, Tony Hawk's Skater Pro, Deimos Rising, Chess, iChat, ICal, OSX and etc.) keyboard, mouse, 1 Year Warrantee is $799

[ET Awful]

71. You've never actually shopped for a PC haveyou?

I suggest you give it a shot.

Sorry, Tony Hawk isn't a selling point, it's an outdated game that was available for PC and included with many PC's and PC video cards about 5 years ago. Most of what you mentioned as far as software goes (especially things like Quicken) do come in most PC packages. Most of the so-called entertainment software you listed is either available as freeware elsewhere (especially chess games, of which there are millions available free).

XP has most of the movie functions you list and wiht free codecs downloaded Media Player can handle the rest.

So, nothing you list is of note, nor does any of it in any way make your Mac superior. In fact, NOTHING at all makes your Mac superior, other than your over-inflated sense of self-worth and delusions of grandeur.

[benburch]

75. I never said that the mac was superior

EXCEPT in the near total lack of any worry about getting a virus, worm, or trojan horse.

Which you cannot refute no matter how hard you try, cuz them's the facts.

And yes, that would change were Macs to become half of the marketplace. But even then I will wager you a steak dinner at Lowrey's that when Macs become half of all PC sales, if that should ever come to pass, that they will still have fewer vulnerabilities than anything from Microsoft!

Otherwise, I like Windows. Windows-2000 works very well for me, and yes, I even play games on it! But would never run Outlook on it. And I would never use Internet Explorer on it. And I don't ever download software for it. And those are the steps that internet security experts have been telling people to follow for their Windows boxes, too.

[ET Awful]

85. LOL . . . You still don't quite comprehend . . .

I have ZERO worries about trojans, virii, worms, etc.

Why? Because I use common sense.

Actually, there are NO security experts that are saying don't ever download software, to imply that there are is completely asinine. In fact, most will recommend specific software downloads based on what you are trying to do.

You keep spouting nonsense that you make up off the top of your head and expect to be taken seriously.

[benburch]

86. Do you read Risks Digest?

I'd say some time spent reading that fine ACM production would educate you.

And clearly I'm not saying never download a patch from a vendor or a well-known program like iTunes from a well-known source like Apple, but experts absolutely do recommend that people not download and run unknown software due to the huge risk of infection. Especially recommended against are any softwares obtained from a P2P network, Usenet, or any "Warez" site.

[ET Awful]

87. LOL . . . you mean the same iTunes that they released the security

warning about today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=2434917&mesg_id=2434917&page=

Sorry, but anyone downloading warez deserves whatever they get.

[benburch]

88. And which already updated itself?

Sorry, you can't win friends and influence people with straw men.

Apple is extraordinarily diligent and punctual about dealing with vulnerabilities.

Show me more than five exploits for anything on OSX??? I can show you 100,000 Windows exploits.

[ET Awful]

91. LOL . . . so lets see, MS discovers a flaw and releases a patch, and

they're bad. Apple discovers a flaw and releases a patch and they're heroes.

You still don't get it do you? APPLE IS NOT INVULNERABLE. This iTunes issue proves my point. It's become very popular, thus people are now going to focus on attacking it.

You are the living epitome of a fanboy.

[benburch]

89. Oh, yes, you never seem to answer the question you are asked.

Do you read the ACM's "Risks Digest"?

You really ought to.

I've been reading it since the mid-80s.

[ET Awful]

90. I'm so happy for you.

I don't need to read it. My network is secure through using intelligent practices rather than leaving it wide open. No need to read a digest.

[benburch]

95. You don't really understand what you are doing, then.

I'm very happy that you have had such good luck with it. I hope your luck holds.

Meanwhile, DO start reading some real computer science. Risks Digest, CERT advisories, etc.

[ET Awful]

96. LOL . . . keep on preaching your fear . . . sorry, doesn't work against me

Common sense network security approaches work without fail.

You're really funny actually. It's amusing how much stress you put on instilling fear where none need exist.

[benburch]

97. Believe what you like?

cuz you seem immune to facts. You have been very lucky.

[ET Awful]

98. No, I've just been careful and diligent. Reading a digest doesn't

equate to protecting a network.

Having a good firewall and using other common sense techniques is fine. Being an FDA licensed company, we are required to be audited every year for security, have NEVER had a problem. I have an external agency try to hack into my systems once a year as part of this audit, they have NEVER been successful.

You're the one immune to facts here, not I.

[MichaelHarris]

65. yeah but

when standing in the computer store look at the Mac software isle then look at the PC software ISLES. That's all that really needs to be said.

[benburch]

69. True in the stores.

Most Mac software sales are through catalogs and the Internet.

But it really is true that there are more games that run only on the PC, though. But you know, I find more and more that I have no time for games, anyway, to the two or three I like enough to buy every year for the Mac are plenty!

Currently, I am working on Master Of Orion 3.

[benburch]

40. You'd pay that much????

I bought a USB keyboard and mouse for $9.95 at Micro Center.

I bought a 17" refurbished. monitor for $69.99.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

92. Wait a sec. Doesn't write DVDs?

I'm out then. Bummer.

[LoZoccolo]

41. It's actually a pretty substantial machine.

The PowerBook that came out in April has a 1.5 GHz processor; this one has a 1.42 GHz processor if you get the better one. You can get a pretty loaded one for a little over $900 and have almost the same internal specs as their best 15" PowerBook (graphics card won't be as good, but still the power is impressive).

[asthmaticeog]

49. It's more substantial than you give it credit for.

It wouldn't need to be half as powerful as it is for mere "surfing the web, basic word processing, and other simple tasks." I've been using an iBook with a 500 mhz G3 processor for a few years now, as a graphics platform, and it was my only computer when I was freelancing full-time. It got the job done splendidly, and still runs great today, and I'm not even considering replacing it. The 1.25 ghz G4 processor in the mini completely dusts what I've been running. Now if I were doing video work, I wouldn't fuck around with a mini, I'd get a dual-processor G5 tower, but I'm always impressed with how even Mac's "low-end" consumer oriented machines make fine professional gear as well. A good friend of mine runs a successful high-volume 4-color printing concern entirely on eMacs, for example. And I mean entirely - from the scheduling and accounting to graphics to running his CMYK RIP, all on the machines supposedly intended for schoolkids.

BTW, all you Mac zealots and Windows zealots need to chill the fuck out. Both systems have pros and cons and functions they're better suited for. All the posting I see by devotees of one system literally impugning the intelligence of those who prefer the other system comprise some of the most idiotic shit I've seen on DU - and that includes chemtrails. Lighten up.

[chenGOD]

50. Hey you with your logic... get outta here! (sarcasm alert)

Seriously, this is a flame war. There's no place for reason or intellect here.


lol

[Elidor]

52. It's a nifty product. I'll probably buy one for my SO.

The savings will allow me to get a newer Windows machine for myself as well, so I can keep using all my old software.

This is like the Apple of old: forward-thinking. I likes it.

[ET Awful]

55. One of the most logical replies I've seen yet.

No bashing of either platform, makes no uninformed statements . . . well done.

And your SO will love it.

[Downtown Hound]

66. Heh, heh

A good old Mac vs. PC flame war. I'm Mac user and always will be, because I simply don't like PC's. They just don't work right for me. Mac's have always had near flawless operation when I've used them. But I'll admit that Apple fleeces its customers. The new imac, while an awesome machine, doesn't have nearly enough RAM and needs a better video card. And this new Mac mini, again another awesome machine, just doesn't have enough power for me to take it seriously.

So, I'll leave PC users to their computer of choice. After all, when all is said and done, it is just a COMPUTER. What's next, an Xbox vs. Playstation 2 flamewar?

[justiceischeap]

76. I like PS/2! ;)

And am a hardcore Mac fan. I've had both Mac and PC's and though I paid more for my mac, it has long outlasted my PC (pc dead years ago, mac still ticking), so I feel I'm getting more out of it for the money. Plus, the upside for me is if I'm using a P2P, I don't have to worry like everyone else about malicious stuff.

[benburch]

78. Atari 2600 4-EVER!!!!!

[Downtown Hound]

81. Pitfall baby!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

93. Pitfall??? You must be a FREEPER! Megamania is THE game! j00 5oox0rz! (nt)

[Liberal Veteran]

82. Screw you all! AMIGA is one true computer!

[Book Lover]

94. Amiga!

We've been cleaning out storage, and it was such a trip unearthing the 1200, the C64, and the 4000 :-) Amigas did it better and earlier than yer perpippity PC and minnitchy Macs...

[Dems4HowardDean]

99. My commodore 64 is doing just fine! LOL

[ikojo]

100. ET Awful....you have such good taste in cats

and in particular, music...

Why has this obvious good taste not also evident in your computing world?

Choosy people choose MAC!!!!