How do you deal with friends and family that voted for shrub?

[OhioBlue]

I have avoided them, confronted them, avoided political discussions, etc. The problem is I am taking it personal. I am personally hurt that they would vote against their/our own best interests. I am disappointed in them for allowing themselves to fall hook line and sinker for the propaganda. There is always something in the back of my mind saying.... they voted for him......

These are people that I love, respect, admire, etc. How can one election change how you look at someone that you have known and loved all your life? Part of me feels compelled to make them see the light, part of me is exhausted b/c some will never see it. It makes me very sad and sometimes long for the ignorance and so called bliss.....

Is anyone else going through this?

[Bok_Tukalo]

1. Realize that not everyone has the same political philosophy

and not worry about it too much.

[OhioBlue]

5. I would be comfortable with the difference on political

philosophy. But, to me this was much more. I have never been so embarassed, disappointed, angry, etc. at a president. I felt that everyone I knew would see this and want to throw him out as I did. But, thank you for your comment.

[grace0418]

8. I agree

In any other election I am perfectly able to say "Oh well, we just have a different political philosophy" and move on from there. But BushCo is so evil, so right-wing, so antithetical to the true America I just can't let it go that easily. In my head, I'm constantly wondering "Are you really that stupid that you'd vote for him? Or are you actually evil and I shouldn't have you over any more? No, you're probably just stupid, and scared and too intellectually lazy to consider the reality of the situation. But in that case, then I'm mad that you even voted if you're too lazy to seek the truth before you cast your vote. What the fuck?!" As you can imagine, my republican friends and family probably think I'm a space case, always zoning out when they talk to me.

[OhioBlue]

11. I completely understand how you feel

I have started to try and avoid any discussion of politics or even anything in the news because I feel some are just sick of listening to me. One cousin called me an elitist. If you knew him and knew me, you would laugh your ass off at that comment. He makes 3 figures, lives in a Denver suburb with an SUV, daughter goes to ballet..... I rent an apartment and have pans to catch the water from the holes in the ceiling......

[Bok_Tukalo]

9. I have friends that thought "Survivor" was TV genius

I thought it was complete and total shit (the whole oxymoron of 'Reality TV' actually). I didn't let it bother me too much and it didn't make me think they were less than they are.

I'm a little surprized that those with the liberal philosophy would be taken aback when they find that their way of thinking is a little different than the mainstream.

[OhioBlue]

14. I understand your point

Maybe you have been involved in more election cycles than I and can see a bigger picture. This was the first I ever really felt invested in. I just didn't see it as republican/democrat or conservative/liberal. I saw it as an immoral, lying, dangerous president and we the people finally had the chance to throw him out. Maybe it is more partisan than I see.

[grace0418]

17. But Survivor hardly compares to a notorious

regime bent on world domination. Liking or not liking a reality t.v. show is a difference in taste. You agree to disagree and move on. Supporting BushCo is accepting greed, murder, oppression, torture, censorship and more. And then to have BushCo supporters tell us that WE'RE the ones that are anti-American is really just too much. I understand that my views are not the mainstream, but I would've hoped by now that the mainstream would have caught a whiff of the cesspool their standing in and realized they need to get out of it. That's what suprises me. Conservatives in general don't bother me, that is just a different philosophy. The crazed right-wing nuts and their supporters are a different story though, I just can't give them a pass.

[Bok_Tukalo]

23. No it isn't

"Liking or not liking a reality t.v. show is a difference in taste"


Reality TV, like modern American politics, is not a mere matter of taste like prefering punk rock to hair bands. It is a willfull buy in to the facade. A deliberate choice to ignore the facts and choose a side that has been branded and identify with that brand.

Face it. Politics has been turned into just another commodity which we purchase in order to project our individuality in a homogenized culture.

[grace0418]

27. But I know plenty of people who watch reality

television for the amusement factor and are staunch liberals and haven't bought into the facade of BushCo. You can suspend your disbelief to enjoy a bit of entertainment (which may not be everyone's taste). But buying into BushCo is an entirely different level of ignorance, one that is downright criminal IMHO.

[OhioBlue]

29. I'm sorry, but I just can't accept that take on it.

while some might see it as that and want to be with the "popular kids" I feel it is so much more important. It is sad that the political discussion does seem to be so commercial, but I expect more out of people. Politics is not something that should be looked at as your preference for a Ford or a Chevy. The people we elect make decisions that affect our and our children's every day lives and futures. This is part of what disappoints me in people.

[CatholicEdHead]

Off limits so far

My uncle (lifelong Democrat) is still speaking out in his own way. Politics with my family has been off limits.

See what happens when I start sporting a Mark Dayton '06 bumper sticker sometime in the next year or so (I replaced my Catholic For Kerry one with an MPR one for now).

[OhioBlue]

25. Forgive me....

but who is Mark Dayton?

[CatholicEdHead]

28. Democratic Senator from MN

up for reelection in '06.

[OhioBlue]

30. is he controversial?

my senators are both repugs and Voinovich won by a landslide. Actually, neither scare me too much (DeWine) is the other. I will fight for a Dem opponent against DeWine just to have another Dem in the Senate though. For me, it is pretty sad when I am so scared of an administration that I will vote against someone just based on the R or the D next to their name. Hell, I'd even vote for Trafficant at this point.

[Left Is Write]

42. He's a Democrat. That's enough controversy for some people.

I helped elect Dayton in 2000 and I hope to be back in MN in time to get him re-elected.

The other Minnesota senator is the dishonorable Norm Coleman (R), who is up fore re-election in 2008.

[pstans]

49. Dayton a Democrat?

He sure sounded Republican on January 6th. But that is another debate, I guess.

[Left Is Write]

2. The only thing I can do is avoid political discussion.

My whole family - parents, siblings, siblings-in-law, voted for Kerry.

My husband's parents - staunch Bush supporters. My one good friend here where I live - Bush supporter and lifelong Republican.

I'm guessing everyone else I know voted for him too. It's really red around here, lots of rah-rah "patriotism" also.

I just avoid discussing it. There's nothing I can do about their votes now, and I don't want to rehash it over and over.

[pretzel4gore]

22. just outta curiousity....

i see the USA as 2 camps, but only the bushwack 'conswervatives' seem noisy and outfront, pushy and arrogant. Are there any 'bully' liberals among your family? Any of them the type of people whom a bushevik better be wary of, due to their 'thinking with fists and boots'? Do dems around you damn the burning bush and his holy mackeral! supporters loudly etc? What do they all think of the mediawhore and its constant bushlovin'? to be honest, the kerry voters, democrats and liberals etc seem like they're isolated and lil more then an underground, meeting secretly and carrying guns just in case....

[Left Is Write]

37. My family are not "in your face" people.

I don't want to trot out a stereotype, but in this case it fits. We are largely a family of Norwegian stoics. My younger sister is probably the most outspoken, followed closely by my brother. They will discuss politics anywhere with anyone.

[StClone]

3. Get "Don't think of an Elephant"

The book has a linguistic guide to evaluating whether or not it is worth while and how to persuade (frame a debate) nearly step-by-step.

[OhioBlue]

6. Thank you. I will add that to my book list.

[ixion]

4. yep, I'm in the same boat

pretty much my entire family, save for my sister and I, voted for the BFEE. We've never seen eye to eye, politically, but I'm having some problems letting this one go.

I simply cannot tolerate those who support fascism, even if they're family members or friends.

They are my family, and I will always love them as such, but things like this make it very difficult.

My father and I used to have very heated political debates, with the rule being that at the end we were still father and son. That still applies, I guess, although I'm having alot of difficulty honoring that rule in this case.

[OhioBlue]

7. I know what you mean

actually, my family was never big into political discussions. But this election held so much importance to me. I have a cousin, who I wanted to be like so much when I was younger. She had my admiration, respect, etc. She turned out to be a staunch * supporter and my image of her has been shattered. Hopefully, time will heal........ I just don't know that I can ever hold her in the same light, which is sad.

[Ivan Sputnik]

10. We avoid the subject

mostly. When it does come up, we keep it light (thankfully). I make jokes about Fox News and Bush's mangled syntax, and they make jokes about Clinton or whatever. Then we drop it. These are my parents, so I don't really want to get into an argument with them. They aren't going to change their minds. They have Fox News on the TV all day and consider Reader's Digest articles to be political analysis. They don't really understand who W is, or the implications of what he's doing, so I don't blame them personally. (My siblings and their spouses are all Dems, by the way. Strange family, I guess.)

[fluffernutter]

12. yep, i'm with you.

my parents have articles about shrub lying around for us kids to read when we go over as if we are mushroom minds and can be swawyed so easily. i do my best to avoid it all together when i'm there.

[Telly Savalas]

19. Same here.

My wife, daughter, and I live about 1000 miles from the rest of our family. Since we see each other so infrequently, it's understood by all that the precious time we have together shouldn't be squandered getting into fights about politics. While I consider my many GOP relatives to be completely out of their minds with regards to politics, they're good people and I love 'em.

[leftofthedial]

13. I attend the service

and comment how natural they look

[MikeH]

15. I Have Tried To Avoid Confronting Family

With my mother I try to avoid talking about politics or shrub. She now lives in Ohio (I am in San Diego), and I did not want to talk with her on the phone either immediately before or immediately after the election. She and I had exchanged e-mails talking about family stuff and the weather. I called her on Christmas; the previous time was the end of September.

I still wonder if my mother has had any second thoughts about shrub, but feel it is best for me to avoid bringing up the subject.

I have one good friend of 30 years about whom I am trying to decide whether I want to continue my friendship with him. He is and always was a fundamentalist Christian, but was never "in your face" about it; he always accepted my problems with Christianity. He voted for shrub in 2000 (anybody but Gore). I got together with him right before the election, and was rather appalled and disappointed that he had no second thoughts or misgivings about voting for shrub a second time. He was not troubled about the Iraq war, or shrub's handling of it. (About there being no WMD's, he pointed out that intelligence is not an exact science. Sounds like a poor excuse.)

He said in 2000 that he was not voting for Pat Robertson (who wasn't running then). However by voting for shrub a second time, he might as well be voting for Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell and their theocratic agenda, and might just as well be one of those "in your face" type of fundamentalists as far as I am concerned.

I am going to send him an e-mail and let him know how I feel, see how he responds, and take it from there. I might or might not want to discontinue my friendship with him, I need to find out.

[OhioBlue]

18. your story sounds a lot like

my uneasiness in dealing with friends and family. Afraid to ask your own mother... see now that is part of what is sad about this. I am afraid to question some of my cousins b/c I have heard second hand the things they have said about me (in regards to supporting Kerry). We are a very close family and cannot believe that * could be what is between us right now.

[Nitrogenica]

16. I'm just waiting for political tides to turn a bit more.

then look out

[cry baby]

20. Great Pics on your sig line! Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Nitrogenica]

26. TY I made them myself.

[sympa]

21. i don't and won't :(

i am tolerant of other political philosophies and appreciate heated discussions. i think honest intellectual debate is a necessary engine for our democracy to function.
that having been said, i cannot tolerate people who won't take responsibility for their ignorance or people who believe that the policies the current administration has enacted have benefitted anyone except for the mega wealthy people who will do anything to maintain the power they have acquired, including killing at least tens of thousands of people.
if (like most of the country) someone voted for bush because they felt he was a strong moral and military leader then it is because they have allowed themselves to be misled by both the media and our government. they fear terrorism so much that they allowed themselves to believe that iraq was a threat and saddam needed to be removed even after it was proven that iraq had no capability nor had it sought the capability to attack the u.s. they have conceded the moral ground, believing in a government that will incarcerate a prisoner for life without a trial, without a lawyer turning our justice system into guilty until proven innocent (and no chance to prove innocence). they have conceded the moral ground in condoning the use of torture which is not only despicably inhumane and barbaric, but will endanger our own military personnel (whose lives they so obviously value that they will not let them leave the military after their contract is expired and they won't provide them essential armor). they accept our military personnel receiving a 10th of the salary of a halliburton employee for doing the same work. they accept things that are grossly unacceptable. and they do this out of fear. i do not respect someone who choses out of convenience to live in fear.
as for anyone who knowingly accepts bush's policies because they benefit from them (read: murdoch, scaife, falwell, norquist) i think the mega wealthy class who thinks it is responsible for making the world turn needs to dissipate. as long as there are oppressors such as them inevitably there will be oppressed and that is unacceptable. since we are animals capable of self awareness and intelligence and study and thoughtfulness, we should strive to reform our world so that we do not resort to the basest of our instincts, which we are (as a whole) apparently still doing.

i will not willingly engage in anything but necessary discussion with anyone who supported this administration for any reason. i see the shades of gray in everything where there is gray. this issue is black and white and i have decided to draw my line at that.

[OhioBlue]

31. Do you have anyone that you are close to

that voted for *?

[sympa]

55. close? depends on what you mean :)

i consider myself close only with my mother and my husband, really. however, i have some (now former) friends who voted for bush. one in particular stands out because i tried to talk to him before the election and things went downhill very quickly. he's trained to be a police officer but hasn't found a job yet. he's very healthy and fit. he is not married, has no children, and delivers pizzas (not in school) and he's 22 years old. in other words, a perfect recruit for our military. i asked him why he didn't enlist (since the main reason he was voting for bush was in support of the war in iraq). i explained that i didn't wish any harm to come to him with my suggestion, but since he was so certain that this war was necessary and just, that he ought to back that up with his actions. his reply was something along the lines of "i was extremely close to enlisting with the marines last summer and if i feel like it, sometime i'll tell you why". my reply was "your reasons don't matter, you are capable and you aren't there, even though you think it's necessary that others are there to fight and die. i don't need to know why. bottom line, you could go, and you won't. any reason you could give is merely an excuse, and i won't be waiting around for you to 'tell me why when you feel like it'"
he was one a very few people that were invited to our wedding

that's the last time we spoke and the last time we will speak.

[pstans]

24. I am with you

This was the first election that I was involved in (just the 2nd election that I could vote in). My in-laws are Bu$h supporters and they brain-washed my wife. We moved back home at the end of the Primaries and I thought I had convinced my wife to vote against Bush. But as soon as we started living in the same town as my in-laws my wife went back to believing in Bu$h's Facists lies. I try to not discuss the topic with them at all. They have friends whose son worked for the RNC. Luckily I haven't run into them.

I am to the point that if I did get in an discussion that I would get angry and wouldn't be able to effectively name the facts against the Bu$h regime.

I live in Iowa and will be graduating from college soon. My wife and I are discussing where we might want to move when I am done. I am leaning towards Minnesota or Wisconsin (2 Blue States), my wife wants to move to Missouri or Kansas (2 Red States). I just find it hard to live in a state with more wing-nuts than real people.

[OhioBlue]

32. try to make your decision based on

the opportunity that is best for your family. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that in any of the States that you pick, if you live in a more urban area, you are likely to find more liberals. And, you will always have DU. I live in a red area, sometimes it is frustrating, but I wouldn't pick up and move because of it (yet).

[skygazer]

33. It's very difficult

My father and I have differed politically all our lives (I'm 44) though we've always kept our political debates civil. He respects the fact that I am educated about the issues and can debate them intelligently and I respect the fact that he is not going to change his opinions no matter what I say. It is sort of an intellectual process with the two of us and rarely gets out of hand.

Still, it's been difficult this time around because I do feel so strongly about the direction Bush is leading the country and about what I feel is his personal agenda.

What is more upsetting and difficult to deal with is my 24 year old daughter's support of Bush. I am amazed that a child that I raised, whom I know to be a considerate and compassionate person, always sympathetic to those in need, could turn out to be a Republican - and not just a Republican but a die-hard Bush supporter. We have had some painful situations that have degenerated into quarrels and it's been really hard to maintain a good relationship because I just can't believe that she really understands what she is supporting.

However, by trying to change her mind, I've come close to alienating her. I don't want that - badgering her is not going to change her mind (it wouldn't change mine - why do I think it would change hers?). I'm not going to pretend to be anything I'm not, nor will I cease expressing my opinion but I no longer initiate political conversations with her - it is too painful.

I have no easy answers for your question. The choices are limited - either stay off the subject and attempt to hold onto the relationship or cut off the relationship. Those are the only ones I see.

[OhioBlue]

34. your situation sounds much more difficult

than mine. I'm sorry for the position that you have been put in. And, I know liberals get blasted for blaming everything on *, but I can't help but feel he, Rove and his administration bear some of the blame for the great divides that now exist in our society. It almost seems as though they relish in it.

[skygazer]

36. I don't know about more difficult

Just different. It's hard for all of us who have loved ones who support Bush. What you said in your OP about almost wishing for blissful ignorance really resonated with me - the people who really pay attention are the ones who are most affected by the country's apathy. I think most people are pretty ignorant of the real situation and the real issues and base their opinions on very superficial things. There's a part of me that almost wishes I didn't care so much, just so I didn't have to feel so much frustration.

[OhioBlue]

38. Yes, the blissful ignorance is underrated....

Not that I think it is responsible. But, when * made the case for invading Iraq, I started reading more and watching the news more and C-Span for the first time. I get upset more about what is going on at the national level and with people who don't see the hidden agenda much more than I care to. Can you believe I even used to like Wal Mart until I started a little research????

[OhioBlue]

39. BTW - by more difficult

I only meant dealing with your father and daughter must be more difficult than dealing with cousins and friends. I haven't even asked my mom how she voted, but she was very receptive to the numerous discussions I gave about the perils of the * administration. My Dad simply said, "you don't think I would vote for the SOB, do you" (meaning he hates *) when I stopped the day before election day to give my final pitch and remind him and my step-mom to vote. He is neither a staunch Dem nor a staunch Kerry supporter, but sees * for what he is.

[ProgressiveConn]

35. Cant choose your family!

Outside of my parents most of my family are hardcore republicans. On both sides there are religious extremists and Voodoo economists. I don't ever bring up politics but I'm sure to school them if someone else brings it up. =) They get treated with respect regardless of who they voted for.

But you CAN choose your friends. Any friends who were big Bush supporters are now "old friends." Some I still talk to and see on occasion. Most however I've intentionally lost contact with over the last couple years. As for Republicans in general? I have no problem with moderate Republicans and some of my best friends are such. However most of them have long since sided against the neo-con hate machine.

[yardwork]

40. I avoid political discussions with the freepers in my midst

It just isn't worth it.

[OhioBlue]

43. what if they aren't exactly freepers?

several in my family are for the most part independents and for some reason, they bought the BS and voted for Shrub. I beleive they can be shown the light. (most of them) Some friends, absolutely not - they are hard core freepers - but the family.... they could and have voted Dem. I don't want to give up on them, but I don't want to alienate myself either. I will try the book "Don't think of an Elephant" that was recommended earlier.

[pretzel4gore]

48. what do they think of blackmail?

cuz that's what bush did when US troops were sent to iraq's borders w/out UN or congressional sanction...in effect forcing both to support an illegal invasion. That was blackmail. The UN refused to go along with bush, but congress felt it had no choice with the troops onsite: failure to use them would expose the country to ridicule. And bush knew that it would. Ask Them about that!

[OhioBlue]

51. I haven't used that line of questioning yet.

I have discussed the issues, sent e-mails from everything ranging from birth control to *'s lack of respect for the scientific community and his disgusting assault on the environment to the failures regarding WMD and Iraq in general. I think I need to remove myself from the discussion for a while. Some are just looking at me as an extreme liberal or something. When the truth is that I do have opinions that are more in line with the liberals, I have never been hard core Dem or an activist. I am just so anti-* and disheartened that anyone I respect could vote for him. I see his as the worst president ever.

[pretzel4gore]

54. well good luck to you.....

'nothing fail like success when working for the devil' is my favorite quote and it's so true...the busheviks have won and to save their lives they must install police state etc with endless wars eventually including nukes...it's already a fact that global warming will probably destroy the biosphere within 100 years and even with 100 percent human effort it may be too late to stop the monster...god himself will die with humanity. your family isn't your responsibility, but it's not nice to pee in the soup....it never has been....
bush is karma i guess

[Flammable Materials]

41. Punch them in the face at every possible opportunity.

After all, stupidity needs to be painful.

:evilgrin:

[OhioBlue]

45. thanks for making me lol

BTW - I think I will avoid that tactic.

[madison2000]

44. If people can discuss it intelligently I look forward to the conversation

But that is only a few of the Reps that I have worked with. They are intelligent and understand what they are endorsing.

But with some of my relatives its impossible. I have one who never says anything of substance, just makes personal attacks like "Clinton was a sleaze" or "Kerry's a wimp". They think their guy is this morally outstanding leader and don't see the lies, the irresponsibility, that his words bear little relationship to reality. Put simply, they accept what they hear from right wing radio hook, line, and sinker and they parrot it on every occasion. They are resistant to facts. They don't even read the newspaper or watch political news shows, and they accuse people who do of being "brainwashed". Its no use.

[webjamn]

46. I know what you mean

My brother is a big fan of the Shrub. After trying to talk to him about different issues the only thing he can do is recite talking points I have heard on Limbaugh's and Hannity's shows. It is impossible to carry on an intelligent conversation about political issues with him. I am now resigned to avoiding political discussions with right-wing family members.

[Biased Liberal Media]

47. I avoid this like no other

because not only is MY family right=wing (most of my dad's side, my mom), but Mr. Biased Liberal Media's family is tellingly right-wing, particularly his brother (who is also a racist shithead).

I try to avoid it like the plague.

[eek MD]

50. what i do

As a person whose entire family (Parents and Sisters) voted for him because they're staunch anti-abortionists who vote how their religion tells them to, i just avoid the topic altogether........If they ever try to bring up i just say that i don't really follow politics, and either change the subject, leave the room, or say that something's come up and i have to go.
No point in Trying to convert the unconvertable...:( ....I was never all that close with them anyway.....(As i wound up being a pro-abortion, anti-death penalty, liberal athiest..)... Weird how the world works out sometimes.. :)

[OhioBlue]

53. How sad that they vote for someone

who affects so much based on one issue (BTW - my grandmother lost her mother to an unsafe abortion during the depression - my grandma wasn't even 10 - I wonder if those that oppose a women's right to choose consider the children that could be left without a mother due to back alley abortions) anyway, an issue that the President only has control over based on the chance of appointments to the Supreme Court - and even then, no guarantee that they will vote in a particular way. My heart breaks b/c of the disillusionment the "Rovians" have drilled into the heads of many Americans.

:cry:

[AlCzervik]

52. I speak slowly and in mono-syllables.

[Bouncy Ball]

56. Well let's see

the only family members who voted for them live 1000 miles away and I haven't seen them in almost five years. So no problem there.

The friends who did are no longer friends. The relationships were already highly strained before the election and now are over. Period.

I cannot respect someone who voted for this immoral, corrupt, horrid, warmongering administration.