for discussion: "American Idol" is a knife in the heart of civil society.

[ulysses]

Tune in to watch people paid to make asses of themselves on national television! Tune in to see just how big a bastard Simon will be this season!

Reality TV is bread and circuses. Would we even blink if Fox piloted a show in which people fought lions unarmed in the middle of a huge stadium for cash?

</grump>

[Liberal Veteran]

1. I'd gladly tune in and watch the McChristians vs. the lions.

And by McChristians, I mean the one's that give lip service to being Christian while simultaneously doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus' teachings, not the good liberal Christians who actually deserve to call themselves real Christians.

[fishwax]

26. McChristians ... I like that (n/t)

[Skittles]

2. very sick stuff

f***ing appalling

[Liberal Veteran]

3. Oh, and by the way..

I watched American Idol last season and it was pretty cheesy for the most part, but Fantasia Barrino did one of the classiest versions of Summertime EVER.

[KG]

4. it's a sign of the downward slide of american civilzation.

[Zomby Woof]

5. yep!

They had a happy conversation at work about it, and I just kept plugging along with my work... if they knew my real opinion.... hahaha...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Well not civilized society, but it is a slap in the face to culture

Reality TV is crap ...most of these people have agents by the time the program airs.

I will say this though. After the debacle with Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire and the fact that they poorly vetted the candidate (who had a past history of violence in relationships) Reality TV shows developed a vetting process that involves highly thorough background checks. Therefore, if you are single and a person asks you to date them who has been on one of these programs...GO FOR IT....their past is squeaky clean :D

[ulysses]

8. actually, as a cultural item,

I don't know that it's all that different from a lot of the mass-fed pap we've had for decades in America. I just don't remember having been encouraged so blatantly to laugh at people.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. Smile....you're on Candid Camera!

And let's not forget such shows as "Queen for a Day" where four women were picked from the audience and told their sob stories for us all to decide which was the most pathetic.

[ulysses]

12. there's a big difference

between playing a practical joke on someone and filming people doing what they don't do well for a few yuks.

[Liberal Veteran]

14. I dunno...seems to me that it is more cruel to set someone up.....

...with a practical joke and watch them make an ass of themselves unknowingly for a few laughs than it is for someone to volunteer to make an ass of themselves for a few laughs.

[ulysses]

15. I'd agree

if I thought the folks on AI were volunteering specifically to make asses of themselves. Maybe they are, in which case I want to know how much they're being paid to advance the culture.

[Liberal Veteran]

16. I don't think anyone is acusing AI of being high art...

For the most part, it's just entertainment. Probably no better or worse than the average sitcom, game show, etc...

[ulysses]

21. I'm not discussing it as high art.

It's obviously not high art. I'm discussing it as the end of civilized human discourse as we knew it.

[sendero]

23. You know....

... I've wondered about that very thing. I have a hard time believing these people who get up there and sound like sh*t really believe they can sing.

I haven't watched AI since the first season, but just seeing the "commercials" for it I'm pretty well convinced that these people who get up to get dissed are getting dissed for cash.

As for AI itself, and most of "reality TV", you have to remove half your brain and 3/4 of your heart to enjoy it. It's not for me.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Except those programs didn't encourage social Darwinism

OK..I guess it's a civilization issue upon further consideration...btw...did you really tell Catwoman to accessorize her eye patch with a parrot?

[ulysses]

13. of course!

I forgot the hook, though. :D

(Hey, she brought up the pirate analogy first.)

[catbert836]

7. They filmed a guy who

spent all his saving to fly to DC to try out, and when he was rejected, despite an incredible tryout, he had to beg for money to fly back home. They filmed him BEGGING! That ruined the whole show for me.

[Elidor]

11. Never mistake American culture for civilization

And you won't be disappointed.

[Deja Q]

20. I second that. But I still end up disappointed.

:shrug:

[SOteric]

17. Are you sure they're ~paid~ to make asses of themselves?

I think a lot of them are actually doing it for free. Which in no way invalidates your proposition, I jess sayin'.

[ulysses]

19. I'm trying, here.

I need to be able to believe that people wouldn't willingly make asses of themselves without substantial monetary reward. I need this, more than I may be able to express. Be gentle.

[bliss_eternal]

18. I wonder about the stats

what I mean is what are the percentages of youth and adults that voted in the election vs. voting for the next American Idol. I'm curious if there are people out there that will take their time to call in their American Idol vote--but didn't bother with the election.

I recall there was a big back lash over the votes regarding who really won--Clay or Ruben. People were calling and protesting saying they tried to get through and their vote hadn't been counted for one or the other. I don't get it. Where were these people in 2000 or 2004 for that matter to contest a stolen election. Why is it SO important to them who wins a singing contest and not who or what is running our country?

I wish the people that spend so much time obsessing over this stuff, spent even half as much time finding out what's really going on in this country.

[Karenina]

25. Didn't Murdoch have a storyboard

for an "American Candidate" reality show? THAT would fix everything! :evilgrin:

[jonnyblitz]

22. "bread and circuses", what a perfect description of that crap.

:thumbsup:

[Liberal Veteran]

24. Well, more accurately, it's CIRCUSES (circi?)

We don't get the bread part of that equation.

[Karenina]

27. RW talk radio

is the intravenous drip sustaining the patient.

[DrGonzoLives]

28. The people who get booted for being bad

I am convinced are there JUST to get on TV and have Simon insult them so that they can get 15 minutes of fame or so. That's the sad part. There are people with talent on that show, with great voices, but are pigeonholed into idiotic pop bullshit that is forgettable one minute into the commercial break.

[CatWoman]

29. you want a knife in the heart of society?

tune into VH1's "Strange Love" and "Fat Celebrities"

[Biased Liberal Media]

30. Well, didn't think this would ever happen but after watching it tonight I

am convinced to never watch it again.

Paula Abdul, who can't sing for shit, has become extremely bitchy this season...and poo-pooed on those who had decent voices. But the thing that REALLY took the cake was this one girl who came in and sang a rendition of "Somewhere Over the Rainbow". It was horrific, but she thought she was an awesome singer. Paula told her maybe she should do voice-over work for the Rugrats or something and then Simon jumped in and started saying "you should do voiceovers for a cartoon rat" or something stupid. The girl looked like she was about to burst into tears and just walked out of the room.

It took me 4 seasons to get here, but I'm truly disgusted now. Not to mention all of the things Simon Cowell continuously says to overweight (or not so overweight) contestants. He told 3 (who looked to be HEALTHY to me!) girls (triplets) that they were fat.

It's sickening and I won't waste another minute on it.

[flamingyouth]

31. I happened upon the triplets part

Gosh, one of them weighs 150 lbs.! It's as if she ... eats or something! :eyes:

[Biased Liberal Media]

32. I know. It was truly disgusting

they looked tall too, if they were as tall as I thought they would they would probably be on the VERY low end of the scale of "slightly overweight" (BMI wise anyhow).

How dumb.

[drhilarius]

33. But you point out something I, somewhat, agree with,...

First off, the comment to the triplets was uncalled for. You're absolutely right, they looked healthy and, I would say, attractive.

However, I think AI remedies a very serious problem in this country: people feel too damn good about themselves. I don't mean to say that high self-esteem is bad, but what i am saying is sometimes people are so certain of themselves that they are almost delusional.

I actually love that moment when these people realize that they suck, when they have to give up their delusion and face a cold dose of reality. Here I'm not talking about those people who could sing but didn't fit the AI "type" (generic pop, scale runs all over the place), i mean the people who are flat out, stone-cold, tone deaf, those people who can't carry a tune to save their lives.

The absolute best is when they can't comprehend that they suck because "my family/friends/co-workers think I sing good" ( this, of course, gets into how little white lies can ultimately snowball into humiliation).

Why are they so delusional? Because the people around them (despite their good intentions) didn't want to make them feel bad. We have an almost pathological aversion to feeling bad, and we will avoid reality if that reality compromises our ego image of ourself. Sometimes, if a person sucks at something, you have to tell them they suck, so then maybe they can go out and find something that they actually excel at. Let me close with an example:

When I was @7 I played soccer. I loved soccer, thought I was great. However, by any objective standard (as i came to conclude watching home videos years later) I sucked, bad. My father, rather diplomatically, suggested I try something else. So I read, began writing, studied various languages, and found that I had a talent for language.

Sometimes a little grim reality sets people in the right direction.

[Biased Liberal Media]

34. Funny you mention facing reality because tomorrow I absolutely

refuse to. It's grim and it's going to be here in a matter of hours, but I'm avoiding the TV and all that stuff, possibly even my computer all day.

It's one thing to be tactful, but it's quite another when you get to downright insulting, and what Simon, Paula and maybe even Randy said to that girl (the girl they told to get "voiceover work") was uncalled for. It was truly disgusting.