Have I made it clear yet how much I hate Prog Rock?

[Wat_Tyler]

I wouldn't want my opinion to be ambiguous on the subject.

[flamingyouth]

1. I was a little uncertain

But your unequivocal condemnation of Rick Wakeman on Ice made it clear. Yep. :hi:

[Wat_Tyler]

4. Glad to be of service, ma'am.

:hi:

[StopTheMorans]

2. believe me, you're not the only one. rush, dream theater, yes, and all

that other crap annoys me infinitely more than do ashley simpson and her ilk...

[Wat_Tyler]

6. I think it's the self-satisfied pomposity of it.

[StopTheMorans]

11. exactly. i dislike a lot of bands for being shitty (i.e. ashlee simpson

good charlotte, etc...) but i DESPISE the band who are so utterly convinced of their own musical superiority that they feel the need to put out "songs" that are nothing more than obscure noodling with "lyrics" over them that they feel are "deep", when they are really nothing more than shitty lyrics because the band can't write anything truly meaningful...

[salvorhardin]

13. Self-satisfied pomposity?

We're talking prog here, not Styx. :-)

[Wat_Tyler]

18. If you look for 'self satisfied pomposity' in the dictionary...

you'll find the grinning face of Rick Wakeman.

[salvorhardin]

21. and I thought we were the party of tolerance. :-) n/t

[Wat_Tyler]

24. Not me - I'm Canadian. ;-)

[salvorhardin]

32. but, but, but...

you gave us RUSH!? And you dare blasphemy at the altar of prog?


On second thought, you also gave us Bryan Adams and William Shatner too... Damn you not-easily stereotyped Canadians!

[eyepaddle]

41. Nice One!

:toast:

[Fenris]

3. Perhaps we should start a "Haters of Prog Rock" group?

[Wat_Tyler]

9. It would certainly be popular, thankfully.

[billyskank]

5. In the same manner

as I believe many homophobes have homosexual desires that they cannot deal with; I suspect that you, Mr Tyler, are deep down a fan of progressive rock, but that you cannot deal with it.

I believe that buried deep within your subconscious, you have an unfulfilled desire to own lots of double-album LPs that are comprised of 25 minute songs about aliens and hobbits. :P

[Beware the Beast Man]

7. Yep, he should just face the truth.

I hear he keeps a copy of "Tarkus" in a secret drawer. ;)

[Wat_Tyler]

12. I have the carcass of Tarkus in a secret drawer.

[Wat_Tyler]

10. OUTED? NO!!!!!!!!

[billyskank]

17. The first step towards recovery for any patient

is admitting that he's sick. We have a support group who can help you through this.

:D

[Wat_Tyler]

19. FECK! DRINK! GIRLS!

WOMEN'S KNICKERS!

[salvorhardin]

28. That's right

We have a special 12 tone support group moderated by gaunt German youth wearing granny glasses named Dieter. The first tone on the road to recovery lies in accepting Rich Wakeman as your savior while listening to the special extended remix of Tales From Topographic Oceans.

[asthmaticeog]

8. Some of it is excusable.

I won't cite specific bands 'cuz I'm in no mood to get dogpiled, but there are worthy groups that can be cherry-picked out from the otherwise irredeemably horrid genre.

[Wat_Tyler]

14. RUSH LOVER! RUSH LOVER! RUSH LOVER!

[XNASA]

15. I don't know where to draw the line.

Peter Gabriel?

Fripp?

Eno?

Bowie?

All have had their feet in the Prog Rock camp.

:shrug:

[Wat_Tyler]

16. I don't think so.

The way I look at it - yes Gabriel and Fripp do, Eno may have links, but I don't see Bowie as in any shape or form Prog - in fact I consider him the antithesis. Prog is basically the over-complication of a simple form in order to demonstrate technical proficiency. Eno doesn't do that - he's deceptively simple.

[RevolutionaryActs]

20. So its OK for me to love Bowie?

Because I do love him. :7

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. Of course...

Bowie is probably one of the most if not THE most influential musicians of the past 35 years. Personally I don't think he gets enough recognition for that.

[RevolutionaryActs]

25. Excellent. I very much agree with you.

Bowie doesn't get enough recognition. :(

[TrogL]

39. Bowie isn't prog

He's pop. :scared:

[Wat_Tyler]

26. All reasonable people do.

[XNASA]

33. I suspect that Bowie is more an Art Rocker.

But I don't think that even he would reject the idea that at times he's been influenced by Prog, at least a little.

I don't think he'd ever reject any idea. He's quite the chameleon.

[Wat_Tyler]

37. And yet, we're still denied that Country Album.

Why, David, why?

[XNASA]

46. But Bowie has performed a C&W version of "Scary Monsters".....

And...let's not forget who played keyboards on Space Oddity, Ziggy Stardust and Hunky Dory.......

Rick Wakeman.

[Wat_Tyler]

49. Yes - that only makes his decline the more tragic.

[XNASA]

51. LOL!!!!!!

Good one.

[Wat_Tyler]

52. We wouldn't care about him if he couldn't play.

He obviously could - the shame is he had no sense of what his talents were best suited to. If he was untalented it wouldn't be half as annoying (I'm talking to you, Jean Michel Jarre).

[XNASA]

53. You'll probably cringe but..........

When I saw him play the "Roundabout" solo live.........BEHIND HIS BACK......I kinda dug it.

[Wat_Tyler]

54. I can say nothing.

I have owned a Celtic Frost album, in the past.

[Squeech]

36. Hmmm...

Looks to me like you chose a definition of prog that guaranteed that you wouldn't like it, or that excused a previous antipathy.

Specifically, there are reasons to over-complicate other than to show off your awesome chops, like because what you're trying to say requires complication. As Frank Zappa said, "Sometimes you can't write a chord ugly enough to express your feelings about the government."

So, let's judge prog rock the same way we judge other stuff: does it communicate? Is the message appropriate to the form? And is it a message worth receiving?

I'll agree with you about Rick Wakeman-- the Arthurian legend on ice was an execrable idea. Wakeman studied the virtuoso classical piano repertoire, all that arpeggio-laden twaddle that I refer to as "lace doily music," and that's the aesthetic he brings to anything.

But his bandmates Jon Anderson and Chris Squire were harmony singers who heard Stravinsky and wanted to think of a way they could sing harmony to something as monumental as the Firebird Suite, so they came up with things like "Roundabout" and "Heart of the Sunrise," which-- despite a tendency toward excess ornamentation, much of it contributed by Mr. Wakeman-- definitely rock. In fact "Heart of the Sunrise" is an appropriate message for right now, as we face the chill of four more years of Bush and need music to gird our loins by. And a simpler version of the song wouldn't have been able to both admit the cognitive dissonance involved and nevertheless convey the ultimate message of hope, and I think that makes it more useful (for my purposes) than, say, "White Riot."

You don't have to like prog rock, but you can't say it's useless.

[Wat_Tyler]

38. Yes I can.

It's useless. It has no use.

[Squeech]

43. If you're gonna argue on that basis

then I think redqueen speaks for me in these matters.

[redqueen]

22. Fuck you, you elitist bastard!

:nuke:

[Wat_Tyler]

31. Elitist?

My dear, Prog Rock is the most elitist art form known to man.

[redqueen]

34. Good point.

Still... fuck you anyway. :hi:

[Wat_Tyler]

40. Fuck you very much, ma'am.

:hi:

[redqueen]

42. heh

OK, I'm not gonna say what I was gonna say. Damn these new rules! ;)

[Orsino]

35. Therefore...

...haters of prog-rock must be the greatest elitists of all!

Consider yourself above it, do ya? Congratulations.

[XNASA]

45. Touche.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

27. does Yes and King Crimson count as prog rock?

follow up question: do you play music?

[redqueen]

29. Of COURSE they do.

[Wat_Tyler]

30. Yes, yes and yes.

King Crimson were the best of the bunch, but I don't care much for them. I like Fripp, the rest can go to hell.

[tigerbeat]

44. i accept, agree and chime in on all prog-rock criticism....

....yet.

ok.....i own The Yes Album, Fragile, Moving Pictures, 2112, Hold Your Fire, In the Court of the Crimson King, The Kick Inside, Never for Ever, The Dreaming, Hounds of Love.....and the list goes on for a bit.

i loathe myself for liking these albums. (the rush albums i keep hidden when guests come over). on the outside i claim to be a guitar-pop geek boy wearing my XTC/Ramones/Talking Heads/Bowie/Pavement/Game Theory charm bracelets proudly.......but when the sun goes down, and i'm all alone with my headphones on.........i crank up Close to the Edge and slip into an self-important, pretentious, over-produced coma.

i have no excuse for myself.

[XNASA]

47. Same here. Except.......

for Rush. I would never listen to that. :evilgrin:

[ceile]

48. Oasis

Bunch of self-involved twats!

[Wat_Tyler]

50. Oh, they're worse than Prog Rock.

[salvorhardin]

55. What have I wrought upon the lounge?

Oh the humanity!

Well, at least we've found something we can all hate -- Oasis.

[Wat_Tyler]

56. Nah - it's all part of an ongoing competition - you can join if you like.

What Supposedly Innocuous Subject Can You Make A Flamewar From?

[redqueen]

58. ANY subject

Hell, someone could say Oreos suck and there would probably be a howl of outrage.

[Wat_Tyler]

60. That's the beauty of the Lounge.

Flame on!

[redqueen]

63. SCREW YOU!

:loveya:

[Wat_Tyler]

64. Well. If you must.

I'll be right over.

[redqueen]

65. Grrrrrr, baby!

If only I didn't know you're all talk and no action.

[southpaw]

57. I kinda gathered that prog wasn't your thing...

Back when you were still Screaming Lord Byron...

..and I was sporting a YES avatar.

[Wat_Tyler]

59. Who's Screaming Lord Byron?

[southpaw]

61. That Canadian dude you claim to have killed!

:P

[Wat_Tyler]

62. Him?

Didn't I shoot him in Reno?