I have to fire someone today. I've never done it before, the hard part

[goodboy]

is...is that he's my friend, and I got him the job in the first place.


Any suggestions?

[johnnie]

1. Yikes

No suggestions, just a "good luck". That sucks.

[fluffernutter]

2. ack, that's horrible. why is he being fired?

[goodboy]

6. here's what happened.

We work at a piano store. During the 4th quarter there was a contest...if we as a store sold 15 player pianos by dec 31,...the manufacturer would give away a free player piano to one of the salespeople...essentially, when one was sold, your name was entered into the drawing....well, this guy's been behind on his child support, and was unable to see his kids...he won the piano, and was going to sell it. The owners and I told him that he must sell it on his own ,and NOT sell it to one of the store's customers, or else he'd be fired....

Well, he sold it to one of our customers.

[Misunderestimator]

8. Well, that makes it easier. Couldn't have been more clear about

what would get him fired. Sorry that he's your friend though... that sucks.

[goodboy]

10. I know...if I were gonna do something like that, I would've covered my

tracks better...but with this computer system we use to keep track of clients, there's no way to hide it.

[progmom]

9. he had to know this was coming

He put himself in this position.
He's going to be mad. It's going to affect your relationship. But if he takes some time to think, and is a grown-up about it, he'll realize what an awkward position he put you in, and you'll be friends again.

[goodboy]

11. I appreciate that ..I know what I have to do. He's GOT to know he was

wrong...and maybe he didn't care...At least he'll be able to see his kids again.

[Bunny]

12. Will he be able to collect unemployment? n/t

[goodboy]

15. I'm not sure...I'm not familiar with ohio unemployment law.

[HereSince1628]

67. Probably not...fired for misconduct typically stops eligibility

In Wisconsin you have to earn 14 times your WBR before you can regain eligibility.

[lonestarnot]

26. Big Deal!!!!! Think of the Children!

[goodboy]

39. well, I have...and he's not making a good living here anyhow, and

I really think he'll do better working some other job.

[shesemsmom]

71. Oh Shit

the guy my be your friend but he did you and the company a disservice. Hang in it sounds like it might be rocky

[shugah]

72. how did he sell it?

i would think the market for player pianos is somewhat limited. how would he avoid selling to a store customer? what exactly is a store customer in your line? someone who has bought a player piano? someone who is looking at player pianos? someone who thought a player piano would be cool, but can't afford one?

how are "your customers" defined?

[Acryliccalico]

3. A lot depends on why you

have to fire him. As I understand it you don't want to lose your friendship but you have to let him go, right?

[goodboy]

4. yes...in a nutshell

[Acryliccalico]

47. Go to your friend and explain your situation

let him know that you honor your friendship with him and that this is not a personal thing. Let him know that the fit was wrong and that you are sure he would be wonderful in a different job. Then invite him to have a drink or lunch. If he is really a friend, then he should be able to understand. Friends must be able to be honest with each other.

[jmowreader]

65. I don't think this is a "fit" problem

The guy was told specifically not to do one specific thing--don't sell your piano to our customers.

The guy turned around and did that exact thing.

I'd call what the OP's going to do "termination for cause."

What's going to be rough on the guy is that every potential employer from here on out is going to ask why he was let go from his last job, and "I did the one thing they told me not to" isn't the sort of thing that would encourage me to hire him.

[Acryliccalico]

70. You are right

Then tell him he knew there could be repercussions for what he did. I posted before I knew the extent of the situation. Anyway you have to tell him the truth and why ( he should already know this) But let him know it is not in your control.

[medeak]

5. the first time is always hard

focus on their strengths and the best reason used universally is economic downsizing... always build someone up before you let them go... then blame @ush

[goodboy]

7. oh i WISH I could blame Chimpy for this one....but I can't.

[WMliberal]

13. Help him find another job

Write a reference for him. He'll only really feel hurt if you cut him and leave him there. You'll show him you're his friend and only firing him on company orders if you help him.

[goodboy]

22. I might think about doing that, but he's got a lot of other personal

problems to work out...

[medeak]

50. sounds like you've done enough

the guy sounds like a mess. Learn a valuable lesson from this..you can't be friends with employees. (23 yrs of owning business)

[RobinA]

52. No Way

do I write a recommendation for this guy, friend or no friend. He puts you in this spot, he does something obviously dishonest...you want to give him a referral? Sorry. Lemme guess, substance abuse problem?

[goodboy]

55. no...he just wanted to see his kids....

He owed friend of the court, and there was a warrant out for him. He used the proceeds from the sale to pay them off and can now visit his kids.

[WMliberal]

74. I didn't read the post about exactly what happened.

I read the initial post and replied.

[drdon326]

14. Can you blame someone else ?

.

[goodboy]

18. well, I can tell him I'm only following orders...but that really solves

nothing...it's his fault he's in this position.

[lavenderdiva]

16. I had to do this exact thing several years back...

I had gotten this friend of mine a job where I worked, and then he was caught stealing. I had to fire him. I literally felt sick before I did it, but I had to do it. The guy was crying, it wasn't pretty. It was the end of the friendship. But then, in my case, finding out that he stole didn't really break my heart about the end of the friendship. In your case, you can understand why he did what he did. However, it was wrong, and it was explained to him what would happen if he did it, and then he still went and did it.

[goodboy]

19. so should I ask him to resign effective immediately, so he can save face

or tell him to go ahead and pack up his things, and hand in his keys.

[medeak]

23. no unemployment if he resigns

(in my state) it's better to be "laid off"

[Bunny]

27. Yeah, if he is allowed to resign, he may forfeit any right to unemployment

compensation.

[lavenderdiva]

32. this is true

but then when he goes to apply for another position, they usually ask on the application if you have ever been fired for any reason, and what is the reason. This may haunt/harm him when he goes to look for a new position. Also, then the new employer can call the previous employer, ask specific questions, and get answers. If he can find a new position right away, and not have the sting/smear of a firing on his record, don't you agree that this might be a better alternative?

[medeak]

35. our standard answer to employers

calling re a "fired" employee. "laid off" There are huge liablilites for employers to give information re employee.

[goodboy]

40. so I should dismiss him then...

[lavenderdiva]

25. I think if you could ask him to resign immediately

that would definitely be a better alternative. It would also help save the friendship. It seems clear from your posts that you care about the guy, and don't wish him any harm. This would help him when he goes to look for another job, and not have to tell people he was fired from his previous position. Also, when they call your store for references, you can say he left for his own reasons. It would help him all the way around. I think this is the best idea yet...

[Misunderestimator]

34. I agree. He won't be able to collect unemployment anyway

since he would be fired for cause.

[lonestarnot]

17. Don't DO IT!

[goodboy]

20. why not?

[lonestarnot]

28. Well hope you sleep well dreaming of children that no have to go without!

[Misunderestimator]

31. Um... that's harsh... he doesn't have a choice in the matter...

the guy knew that he was doing something that was grounds for firing. If his children go without, blame it on the guy who made that choice, and if they are really going without, you can blame that one on our government.

[lonestarnot]

36. Penalty doesn't fit the crime here either... so harsh response

:evilgrin: :smoke:

[goodboy]

41. he cost my store an 18000.00 dollar deal. We could've sold the customer

one of our pianos for a thousand dollars more, and it would've helped the store out tremendously since Jan, Feb, March are lean times.

[Deja Q]

73. And yet you still had that giveaway deal?

I've never understood the illogical intricacies of capitalism... you'd think that, in a society, people would simply be nice and helpful to each other - which would avoid this sort of nasty thing in the first place.

I understand why you have to do the firing. He did break the rule. But a rule made in a 'society' that effectively encourages these sorts of shenanigans in the first place ain't no society in my book.

Sorry, I cannot judge for or against you. Or for or against him. The problem transcends...

[goodboy]

43. right,. He paid Friend of the Court, and petitioned the court to allow

him to see his kids which is what he's wanted more than anything else in the world.

[goodboy]

42. But he knew what would happen if he did this, and put in the same

situation, I probably would've done the same thing...I would want to see my kids...in a way, I don't blame him, but this is the decision that the owners have made and it is my responsibility to carry out the orders.

[htuttle]

21. Do it Larry Tate style

"Stevens, you're fired."

ps. I've had to do the same thing. It's never easy to fire a friend (which is probably why they say you shouldn't hire close friends).

If you have a boss, try blaming the whole thing on him when you tell the guy he's fired. Worked for me.

"Hey, I don't want to do this, but the owner wants me to fire you."

:shrug:

[goodboy]

24. I will probably shift the responsibility for the decision to the owners

but should I say, "we gotta let ya go" or I need your resignation immediately.

[onecent]

29. The best job I ever had was after I got fired. Was there 20 yrs.

Like you said at least he's paid his child support.

There are other retail sales jobs, but I have a friend that got roped into Lowes (with unbelievable promises and lies) and don't go there.

[hfojvt]

30. sounds to me like you are losing a good seller

and also a person who really needs his job. You could have made things easier by just buying it from him wholesale or making a deal to sell it on consignment. Talk about being stung by good fortune. You win a player piano and end up losing a job.
It does not sound like something that will happen all the time. I suppose you have to follow orders and fire him, but I would goto bat for him myself. I don't think he deserves to get fired, and he's not even my friend.

[goodboy]

37. well, to be perfectly honest...he's not met his sales goals for the last

4 months...and frankly, 4th quarter is the gravy time. I've gone to bat for him many times, when he didn't sell enough to beat his draw, and got him paid at least for the hours he worked, and the owner and I loaned money to him to get him by...I think this is for the best, but it certainly doesn't make it any easier.

[hfojvt]

49. aha, so there are other issues

I was just going by that he made enough sales to get in the drawing enough times to win, and also that he sold his own piano. So it sounded like he can sell.
I was fired myself for lack of sales, but I felt that I was providing good customer service in other ways (and the job was customer service at a phone center, not sales). I called the place nine months later and still knew more than the two people I talked to. There are other costs involved in firing someone. Not to mention the hostility which I have towards my former employer.
Considering the difficulty of selling an expensive item like that at anywhere near fair market value, I still think he was in a difficult spot and perhaps something else can be worked out.

[goodboy]

53. what was weird about this, is that he had his name in there 2 times

and I had my name in there 18 times, and he won. I'm happy for him because if it weren't for the piano he won, he wouldn't have been able to pay off friend of the court, and thus see his kids.

I told him, "when you first got here you were on one side of a raging river, and your kids were on the other side. Now, you're on the same side of the river. Don't look back"

[Bouncy Ball]

33. Huh. At least he's not out pushing SpongeBob onto

unsuspecting, innocent children, right?

But seriously, good luck with that. Be strong.

[goodboy]

38. thanks bouncy. (nt)

[rug]

44. You don't "have to" fire him.

You have a choice. If you do, you're choosing to avoid the consequences to you if you don't. It's not your store. You are choosing to cross class lines.

[goodboy]

57. I wish I had a choice...

but the fact is, the owners made the decision-and he was kinda on borrowed time anyway because of lackluster sales figures. I know it's not my store ,but it's my responsibility as the sales manager.

[miss_kitty]

45. wait until Friday

if you are on a Monday through Friday schedule where you work. experts say that is the best, because you are not sticking someone with extra days off that they are not accustomed to having.
be honest with your friend.
I found the worst thing about getting shit canned (on more than one occasion) was the lying. But you know your friend. maybe (s)he would rather be spared the gory details.
Sorry you got to do that, it is supposed to be one of the most stressful things to do at work-and that's when it's not a friend.
:(

[JVS]

46. Here's how you do it

You: You wanna do some drinking after work? I'll only have a couple so I can do the driving
Him: yeah sure, sounds great
You: Well why don't you get us a good spot at the bar and get started because you're fired.

[ohiosmith]

48. What reason will he be given for the dismissal? Sorry if I missed it

earlier in the thread.

[goodboy]

54. here:

We work at a piano store. During the 4th quarter there was a contest...if we as a store sold 15 player pianos by dec 31,...the manufacturer would give away a free player piano to one of the salespeople...essentially, when one was sold, your name was entered into the drawing....well, this guy's been behind on his child support, and was unable to see his kids...he won the piano, and was going to sell it. The owners and I told him that he must sell it on his own ,and NOT sell it to one of the store's customers, or else he'd be fired....

Well, he sold it to one of our customers.

[tjwmason]

51. Despite what others are saying

He broke the rules, it does sound like gross misconduct to me. It will feel majorly crap for you (which nothing can change) but it has to be done.

If I were you, I wouldn't mention other points (like his targets), and be prepared to withstand his response.

That you feel bad is proof that you're a good guy.

[goodboy]

56. I really appreciate that. I did build him up the best I could

He actually brought it up, which made it easier for me.

I said, "When you got here, you were on one side of a raging river, and your kids were on the other side...now you're together on the same side of the river. And don't look back."

He hasn't seen his kids in 2 years, and he used the proceeds from the piano sale to pay off Friend of the Court. I think this is the best thing.

[progmom]

66. you did well

I'm impressed. It can be easy to freak out and withdraw when things get awkward. I'm sure he appreciated the decent way you did it.

[HEyHEY]

58. Go up to his desk and yell "Get the fuck outta here!"

[flamingyouth]

59. I've been there

It's not a fun place. Sounds like he was sensing things were not going well, which helps at least somewhat. Sorry you had to do this. :(

Put your feet up and relax at the end of this stressful day! :pals:

[goodboy]

60. done. and done. and yes it did help that he kinda saw the writing on the

wall. I just hope I don't have to do this again anytime soon.

[lavenderdiva]

61. thanks for updating us on the days events...

sorry it was so stressful for you, but it sounds like you handled the situation with aplomb. I think the way you handled it, it sounds like you two may remain friends. Its the best outcome... :grouphug:

[goodboy]

62. yeah...I'll help him any way I can. I think it's a blessing in disguise

for him.

[Pithlet]

63. That's tough

There's no advice that will make you feel better, so here's a :hug: And know that could end up being a good thing for your friend. Sometimes these situations have a way of turning things around for the good in a person's life. I certainly hope that is so with your friend.

[goodboy]

64. Thanks Pithlet. If nothing else, it will help him get himself together

to be able to provide a stable life for himself, which in turn will be better for his kids. He hasn't seen them in 2 years, and he's gonna move back up to michigan where they are. He knows a lot of people there, and can get a job easy.

[BlueJazz]

68. Damn..the one thing that pisses me off about the person is.....

..he could have probably worked out some kind of deal with the owners so that the store would make money and he/she would have made a lot of money (since he got the piano for free anyway).

[TroubleMan]

69. Here's how you do it - seriously:

Let's say, for reference, your friend's name is Bob.

So get on the intercom and say:

"All employees report to the break room immediately.

Bob! - Where the hell do you think you're going?!"