Alot of Quarterbacks are overated

[camero]

The thing about quarterback stats is that it is easy to get big passing yards from short throws.

Example: Quarterback A (pick anyone) throws 3 yards to a running back in the flat or a wide receiver on a screen play. RB or WR then runs for 50 yds after the catch. QB is credited with a 53 yd pass play even though the throw was only 3 yds.

IMO, the WR or RB in this instance should be credited with 50 rushing yards while QB should get 3 yds passing.

Not alot of QBs are throwing deep these days and this change could bring back the deep route.

Just my opinion.

[camero]

1. Kick

kick

[trumad]

2. White and Black I agree

but when you pick Black and say it's because the NFL want's more Blacks playing QB, then you're a racist...

[camero]

3. I agree

Rush is a racist and in the Rocker thread, I listed several successful black quarterbacks. Alot of it is not really the QB, but the offensive system.

[camero]

5. I was just making a more elaborate argument

That McNabb should not have been singled out. Of course he was by Rush because he's black.

[VermontDem2004]

4. It's the quarterback's job to get the ball

to the Running back or the reciever on the flat, I seen several incidenses where throws were underthrown or thrown behind the reciever. But most of the time 50 yard gains are not off of screen passes, plus that isn't the only thing that makes a quarterback great, it's a combination of things, pass completion pct, touchdowns, and interceptions with the combination of ypa.

[camero]

6. Nobody looks at Completion Pct. for greatness

They look for Yards. Brad Johnson has one of the highest completion percentages year in and year out and his offense was near the middle of the league. It's also Touchdowns and scoring that make greatness.

Plus how many rings a quarterback has.

The trend for the last 9 or 10 years has been the West Coast offense, which consists of short slant and screen routes. 11 yds at the most.

[VermontDem2004]

7. 49ers run the west coast offense

and I also see them throw down the field to TO atleast 4 times. But yes Completion Percentage does matter, actually QB Rating is the best way to determine how good a QB is and it takes into account YPA, Touchdowns, Interceptions, and Pass Completion %. What I am saying is one thing doesn't determine how great a QB is, it's a combination of things.

Here are the 5 Best QB's in the NFL as of right now

1. Steve McNair 110.9 QB Rating
2. Dante Culpepper 108.0 QB Rating
3. Peyton Manning 103.7 QB Rating
4. Jake Plummer 98.1 QB Rating
5. Matt Hasselbeck 94.1 QB Rating

[Awsi Dooger]

8. Ignorant coaches are putting too much pressure on NFL QBs

Correct, short passes are now very much in vogue, partially due to bullshit TV analysis by ex-QBs who insist those short passes are equivalent to a run. Rushing attempts are gradually declining leaguewide, to the complete detriment of the sport.

My job is in sports statistical analysis. Yards Per Pass Attempt (YPPA) has actually been going down, in direct correlation to the fewer amount of rushing attempts. What you see now is many teams averaging a paltry 25 or fewer rushing attempts, and therefore a pathetic 6.5 or less YPPA alongside. Only the superior and intelligent teams that average a robust 30+ rushing attempts can still get the ball downfield sufficiently to average well over 7.0 YPPA. There used to be about 8 or 10 teams manage those numbers over the course of a season. Now maybe a handful at best.

My belief is NFL coaches are amazingly lazy now, in this era of the "West Coast offense." Instead of using the offseason to emphasize the running game and "creat a seam here, and a seam here" a la Vince Lombardi, they apparently think it's the Don Coryell Trophy and design pantyhose passing plays.

Granted, defensive linemen are superior athletes to offensive linemen. Pushing the defenders aside enough to create a suitable hole is a monumental task. But the reason so many QBs are either overrated or fail completely is that they have no running game to fall back on or set the tone. This week, among the 14 games there are 11 teams averaging 100 or less rushing yards per game, and only 3 above 150. When I look at the rushing stats from the '60s,'70s and '80s, almost every team was well over 100 YPG and the premier QBs blossomed as a result.

[VermontDem2004]

9. To make you happy there are 8 qb's over 7.0

Drew Bledsoe 7.75
Trent Green 7.59
Peyton Manning 7.49
Tommy Maddox 7.44
Steve McNair 7.39
Jake Plummer 7.34
Jeff Fielder 7.23
Jon Kitna 7.06

The interesting thing is that most of the QB's on this list are on teams that have a great running game.

[trumad]

10. Jeff Fiedler...Snarf

Good old "Jay" couldn't hit the side of a bard 5 yards away...

[VermontDem2004]

11. He's not doing bad

He completes 60% of his passes, but I think Miami should start Brian Griese. But what do I know? I am not a coach.

[Awsi Dooger]

12. That was my point

"The interesting thing is that most of the QB's on this list are on teams that have a great running game."

The QBs without a running game aren't given a valid opportunity to succeed, yet too many head coaches no longer emphasize the run.

VermontDem2004, I know you're a Cardinal fan. Go to ProFootballWeekly.com (or elsewhere) and check out Jake Plummer's YPPA the last few years in Arizona, minus a running game.

Actually, 8 QBs at 7.0 or above is very low for this point in the season. And 7.75 is extremely low to be leading the league at this stage. Kurt Warner was well over 8.0 a few years ago, when Vermeil was coaching and the Rams used Marshall Faulk properly, i.e. often.

Vermeil is a statistical mastermind. I learned the most relevant and critical NFL stats from an article Vermeil wrote in Inside Sports magazine, August '87. That's right, '87. I still have it, and it's amazing that things he wrote then -- like rushing attempts being much more important than rushing yards -- are just starting to be accepted by the sports media and avid fans.

I'm not surprised Vermeil's QB is at 7.59, plus his rushing attempts (and yards per game) are among the best in the league as well.

[VermontDem2004]

13. I already looked at them

He averaged around 6.50, his average would be higher if it wasn't for two seasons were he got under 6.00, his first season he was I think around 7.44.

edit: I think getting around 25-30 rushing attempts is key to be successful, but I think the best way to determine how good a running back is by looking at his Yards per Carry average.

[Awsi Dooger]

18. I agree completely

Rushing attempts is a team necessity. I use 28 as the base number that a playoff contender should average.

But yards per attempt is what defines RBs. Anything high 4s or above is terrific, especially over 5 and if maintained over several seasons.

[BJ]

14. Jake "the Snake" Plummer, QB Denver Boncos

Talk about overated!

[VermontDem2004]

15. Your right

This season he completed 64.5% of his passes off of 93 passing attempts, 683 passing yards, 7 touchdowns and 3 interceptions. He actually hasn't thrown an interception since Week 1! Last week he completed 16 straight passes! Plus combine all of that and he has a 98.1 QB Rating, 4th best in the league. Post something more of substance then just a rant.

edit: More importantly the Broncos are 4-0 with him.

[BJ]

19. Gee...can't take some ribbin' from a Chiefs fan.

But more importantly the Bronks will be 4-1 after Sunday.

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. An over rated Broncos quarterback? nah, that would never happen!

I always thought Crybaby Elway was overrated too.

[Character Assassin]

24. Is that scotch I smell on your breath?

Elway is arguably in the top three, ever.

[underpants]

16. Like pitchers in baseball expansion dilutes talent

The level of quarterbacking in the NFL is at a low point and has been for the last 5 or so years. The "just don't LOSE the game" mentality is alive and well in the NFL because the days of the gunslingers (there are still some) have gone away.

Of course expansion also brings more opportunity but the big picture is that there are several starting QB's who would at best be holding a clipboard in any other era. This is surprising because of the training and experience (you can't substitute for in game snaps) available in NFL Europe and even the Arena game. Jeff Garcia is a perfect example of how a QB can adjust to the speed of the pro game and grow into the game.

[VermontDem2004]

17. I can probaly pick several QB's from another

era who would be on the bench for other teams in this era. I think the level of quarterbacking is better, their arms are stronger, they are faster and stronger. Former coaches could only dream of having a QB like this.

[camero]

23. That's true

The last 3 Super Bowls were won by coaches who just told thier QBs to just "don't lose the game".

[44g]

21. no such thing as an overrated quarterback

Quarterback is the most difficult and dangerous position in team sports to play. Vision and analytical ability, speed and agility are more valuable than arm strength. QB's and WR's have to read and anticipate what the defense is doing to stop them and adjust their plays without verbal confirmation with each other. Moreover, most blocking schemes are designed to leave one area or gap unblocked. If the defense figures which one and blitzes that gap the QB is toast if his receivers do not make their adjustments and run to the right spot on time. Establishing the Lombardi scheme of creating a gap and running does not work simply. Because defensive players are so smart, big and fast and they can stack the line of scrimmage to the point they outnumber the blockers. Running success is as much dependent on the offensive line and running back anticipating the defense and adjusting before and after the snap as it does a stud running back. High pass percentage rates and yard per passing rates are as much an indication of the coaches and scouts ability to judge talent and teach the team as it indicates individual greatness.

[sasquatch]

22. I believe winning quaterbacks are more important than big stat....

quarterbacks. If they don't win mthe game then what good are they? Then again I could be wrong.