Beware! Animal Abuser in your Neighborhood!

[RetroLounge]

That is what was printed on an envelope along with my address which I found in the mailbox today. No return address.

Inside was a print out of an article from the local Milwaukee paper. It seems my neighbor across the street, a WWII vet, and an old curmudgeonly guy, but otherwise pretty nice, had a small dog and the dog bit 3 people in the neighborhood. The police told him they were going to take the dog away and put it to sleep, then bill him for the procedure.

Instead he tied a heavy weight to the dog's neck and drowned it in a water barrel in his back yard. No criminal charges were filed, but he was fined for the biting and improper maintenance and care of an animal. The only part of the article that was underlined by hand was the part about the DA not filing charges.

Now I certainly don't agree with what he did, and please don't get all outraged over this (well, not too much please, that's not the point) as people I know from farms take their dogs out in the woods and put a 22 bullet in their heads when they get old. Yes, that bothers me too. And I am a dog lover and put my own to sleep last year.

But here's the kicker. This happenned 5 years ago.

My point is, why on earth does someone print out this article now and mail it out, 5 years later, presumably to everyone on the block? Seems petty and vindictive. And spineless to do it anonymously. It's not like the guy goes around and kills everyone's pets. Anyhow, I'm not sure what creeped me out more, him doing this, or the letter now 5 years later.

Thoughts?

RL

[Politicub]

1. Because people are crazy

And have too much time on their hands. What a useless exercise. He probably did something to piss a neighbor off.

[trof]

4. and carry a grudge

for a long time, evidently.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. I would guess that he recently ticked off someone in your neighborhood

and this is their idea of getting back. The act itself horrifies me, but I don't know the man's financial status. He couldn't have cared that much for the dog...that's for sure. How sad. :(

[jobycom]

10. I wouldn't say that

About him not caring for the dog. Maybe not. But there is an old saying that you never let someone shoot your dog for you, because it only makes it worse. For many people, especially his generation, that's literal.

Maybe he didn't care about the dog, or maybe he cared so much he wanted to be the one to do it. Maybe drowning was the only method he had. Who knows, except him? I'm not convinced that taking the dog to a stranger and letting it die alone is kinder. Nor am I convinced that injecting the dog is kinder than drowning. Just because the dog can't react to what's happening, since the drugs immobilize it, doesn't mean it doesn't know, and feel the horror of it.

Just my thoughts. I'm going to find something less depressing to do now.

[RetroLounge]

12. He walked the dog one last time and spent time holding it

before he did it, so yes, he did seem to care for the dog.

RL

[jobycom]

14. Wow. That makes it even sadder

I was feeling bad for the man, now I feel worse. It's got to be horrible for some friggin' beauracrat to order you to kill your pet, and leave you no way out. So far, I'm on his side.

[achtung_circus]

40. As clarification,

The gold reference standard for humane euthanasia is the report of the American Veterinary Medical Association panel on Euthasnasia. The latest version (2000) is found here:

<http://www.avma.org/resources/euthanasia.pdf>

Drowning is NOT humane.
Injection with Euthanol (sodium pentabarbitol) is. It was initially developed as an anasthetic agent for people. When too many people were dying under anasthesia it was decertified and it's some remaning use (as far as I know) iss humane euthanasia of animals.

[Fridays Child]

3. For some reason, someone in the 'hood wants to stir things up...

...for the old guy, and he's being outed for his past misdeed.

[LoZoccolo]

5. He really shouldn't have done that to the dog.

He should have called up the people that got bit and offered to let them do it instead.

[McKenzie]

6. the animal rights mob are very militant

I can sympathise with them as regards outright cruelty. But, nature itself is red in tooth and claw. We have anthropomorphised the animal kingdom and assigned human attributes where none exist.

I know damned well that this will draw the heat. Nontheless, I'm going to say it. If I die tomorrow my friends will notice and contact the LEA, eulogise at my funeral and all the other manifestations of human grief. Well, some people will LOL!

If a dog snuffs it I don't think its buddies will go into mourning. Dogs and other animals are incapable of abstract rationalisation. They'll sniff at the corpse and go on being dogs. Turn your pet cat loose for a couple of weeks and it will go feral to see for yourself. Pet names notwithstanding, kitty and, for that matter, fido will revert to the sort of behaviour nature intended...morality won't be a factor in their behaviour patterns.

I don't eat battery eggs or factory farmed meat but I have no difficulty in treating animals as animals. They don't speak English (or Swahili or whatever) they are instinct-driven.

[jobycom]

9. I will argue with one point you made

I've never seen an animal that did not go into mourning at the death or loss of one of its close friends or family.

They aren't human, they are a bit over-anthropomorphized (Read Life of Pi, didn't ya?), etc, as you say. But to say they don't suffer grief over death isn't true, by my observations, and I've lived around a lot of animals.

[flvegan]

13. We sure can be.

But if this shitbag moved into my neighborhood, I'd want to know his past.

Yeah, you can call this notice "carrying a grudge" but why not. He did it, and he's still serving time for it.

My hat off to the activist that sent the notice.

Flame away.

Quite frankly, your take on treating animals as animals is what allows cruelty in the first place. "They're only animals" is the catchphrase for factory farming, etc. Though, due props on your avoidance of eggs from battery hens and meat from factory farms.

[LoZoccolo]

16. I would want to know if animal rights activists moved to my neighborhood.

I would keep their kids away from my house because they might bring in all the cockroaches that they refuse to get rid of from their own house.

[flvegan]

18. All that brilliance being wasted on me. Sad.

[LoZoccolo]

21. You think I'm joking, but when me and one of you people were talking...

...the other day about how our office might be doing things in the break room to get rid of roaches (I found out later that we don't have a roach problem - otherwise I don't know what this guy would have done), he seemed kind of disturbed about me talking about the best way to get rid of them. To his credit, he said he probably wouldn't like them if they were in his house, but I seriously wondered if this guy would go around when no one's around and get rid of all the traps if they put them there, or would let them invade his house where his kids live and have them get disease. If you people are going to go around being arrogant (and proud of it) about this issue and making people feel guilty, I think you should have things figured out like what we do when we have a situation where people can get disease if we don't get rid of roaches.

[flvegan]

25. Actually, if he were educated or otherwise truly "dedicated"

He'd find an alternative, like condensed milk and boric acid. Great deterrent for roaches.

I see what you're saying, absolutely. But don't classify "you people" in a bunch and pass judgment.

You also said that you wondered if he'd move the traps. He never suggested, implied or stated that he would. You might be putting your predetermined opinion or prejudice in front of reality.

I don't think you're joking. I know that there are some whackos out there. I also know some decent folks that are anti-abortion, but would never shoot a doctor or burn a clinic.

[LoZoccolo]

26. I'm sorry. n/t

[jobycom]

17. How would you have preferred he do it?

From one animal rights activist to another? They were going to kill his dog and charge him for it. There's the crime. That's what the activist should have been protesting. They killed the dog, he just decided to do it his way.

[flvegan]

20. Well, for starters

I'd want to know the circumstances behind the biting. Why was the dog biting? Loose? Vicious? If so, then he be ordered to contain the dog. Like so many communities have already done via legistlation, a vicious dog should be contained, a bond posted, and fair warning to neighbors given. The crime is that this dog did something wrong, and the only solution was to kill him.

Now, if they were hell bent on taking the dog and euthanizing him, then so be it. A shot in the arm of sodium pentabarbitol is a hell of a lot better than the trauma of being drowned by the person you trust, love and care about.

If the guy soooooo loved this dog, that he wanted to save him from the law killing him, he should've gotten a damn lawyer and fought them, like thousands of other citizens have.

The activist is right in the direction of his hostility.

[DrGonzoLives]

24. Because we can all afford lawyers

Especially elderly people - they're so cheap, after all.

The activist is right in the direction of his hostility? Five years after the fact? Bullshit.

[flvegan]

27. Pro bono? Heard of it?

He could've tried. From the limitations of the article, he didn't.

Should the sex offender databases have a statute of limitations? Maybe background searches for employment should, too. It's not like this guy took the dog to the shelter for a low cost euthanasia. He drowned him. We don't use drowning as capitol punishment. Why? Actually, I know why, but I want to hear you say it...

Lastly, I don't know if you have a pet that you care about. Let's assume you do. Someone takes that pet, ties a brick to him, drowns him. You got a grudge 5 years later?

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flvegan]

32. When in the f* did I suggest that?

The guy with the damn dog should have sought a lawyer, not the activist. Did you even read the post, or are you just so pissed at what I've said, you're spinning it before you understand it?

There are a great many attorneys that will take an animal case pro bono, because they care about animals. Or take another low profile case because it's about something the actually care about. 'Nuff said.

I'll bet your grandfather didn't drown any of his dogs. I agree with what you say about folks on farms, etc that feel the need to do it themselves. Drowning? Cruel and unusual.

I never stated that animal cruelty=sexual assault, did I. You want to think that I did, then fine. What I said was, does a crime of cruelty have a statute of limitations? No. It shouldn't. Why? Because of what you stated yourself, the victim has no closure, why should the criminal?

Quite frankly, I'm fucking offended that you'd toss such insinuation my way.

[RetroLounge]

28. Some items from the article

The dog was not leashed. They were warned. The incidents (3 bitings) happened over a few months time. A 28 yr old woman, a newspaper delivery man, and a 9 yr old girl on roller skates.

He mentioned that he had hoped he could get the biting fines reduced if he did the deed himself instead of the police having to spend the time and money.

"The activist is right in the direction of his hostility."

I disagree, after 5 years, the Activist is petty and vindictive, and I think much less of the letter sender than the old man.

RL

[jobycom]

39. Perfect world activists

How do you know he could he could afford an attorney? For that matter, how do you know he could afford the euthanasia? I guess in a nice world he could have just moved into a nicer town, or hired some Jimmy Stewart character to win his case for him.

The city trapped him, he took the best way out he could. He's the victim of a mindless beauracracy, and so was his dog. And for the record, I doubt the dog would have felt a lot better being handed over to strangers and shot full of drugs. Just because an animal can't scream as his neurotransmitters are shutting down (assuming the drug is administered properly--when it isn't, it leads to rather painful deaths) doesn't mean it doesn't feel the terror of what's happening.

Sorry, but the city put him in a bad situation. Petty vindictiveness is not activism. Activism is trying to get better results next time, not seeking out vengence five years later.

[RetroLounge]

19. I'm not so sure this qualifies him as a Shitbag

It's not like he killed 100,000 Iraqis.

I reserve shitbag for really bad deeds.

He was misguided, sure, and probably wrong, but not a shitbag.

RL

[flvegan]

22. See to me, someone that kills 100,000 Iraqis is

a fucking shitbag. I see your point. It's still intent, though.

[RetroLounge]

23. Agreed. Not enough adjectives to use for bush**

RL

[LoZoccolo]

15. Shit yeah, they'd let my grandma die some of them would...

...because she needed a valve replacement in her heart and they used a pig valve. Some people would have no problem letting her die to save a pig.

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I JUST saw a show last night about the tie between animal cruelty

and abusing humans. In some cases you can report these people to the police because they are interested in preventing crimes being perpetrated against humans (and they want to save the animals too.)

You HAVE to go see this site: http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/first_strike_the_connection_between_animal_cruelty_and_human_violence/

[LoZoccolo]

11. Department of Pre-Crime

It's justified as long as it's about animals.

[Zuni]

29. abuse of pets is common in developing serial murderers

there are 3 commonalities in young pre-serial killers, besides physical, mental and emotional abuse at a young age
1. cruelty to animals
2. arson, pyromania
3. excessive bed-wetting at innappropriate ages

not every serial killer shows all three, but most show one or more.

[RetroLounge]

33. Interesting, but not germaine to the topic

The dude's almost 80.

"excessive bed-wetting at innappropriate ages"

Depends...

RL

[Zuni]

36. I didn't mean the old fella

I was reffering to the post above about animal cruelty being a sign of violence towards people

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. Right.. it was a tangent.

[RetroLounge]

38. Ah, I got it. My apologies...

RL

[jobycom]

8. You're right, it's pure vindictiveness

If the guy was a danger to other people's pets, I could see it, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Someone was out to hurt him.

I'm a little bothered by how he did it. Sounds traumatic. But I'm more bothered by the government ordering him to put his dog to sleep and putting him in a situation like that. You said it was a small dog? Small dogs bite more often, but they aren't much of a threat when they do. The real crime to me seems to be the government, and the people who whined about being bitten by a small dog. I've taught my kids that if they get bitten, it's their fault, usually, and they should learn to behave better around dogs, and learn when to stay away from certain ones.

Cows are killed more violently to make hamburgers and steaks and leather accessories, so most people are more abusive to animals three times a day, anyway, even if they pay someone else to do the dirty work.

For the record, I'm an animal rights nut and a vegetarian.

[Merrick]

31. The same reason everyone does everything - because they're stupid

[RetroLounge]

34. Yes.

But it bugs me anyhow...

RL

[RetroLounge]

35. Here's another question

Should I let the old guy know I got the letter?

RL