Taylor v. Chavez was replayed on HBO. I can't watch boxing anymore.

[JanMichael]

Not because the fight was stopped with a couple of seconds left, Taylor was unable to continue, the decision was correct imho. Time left isn't really a consideration when someone is obviously hurt. Meldrick went to the hospital after the fight with a fracture in his face and pissing blood.

What killed me however was seeing what's happened to Taylor since that 1991 fight. He's now fighting club fights, can barely speak, looks like hell, and he's only 36 years old, my age.

This is only the tip of the iceburg too. There are thousands of guys that never get the big fight, never get the big payday, but get their brains knocked loose every Friday night for years on end.

Most of them do it for economic reasons, then I suppose after getting enough brain damage continue because that's about all they can do anymore. It's a viscious cycle.

It's not like I didn't know this already, I've been a fight fan since the mid-80's. I've even spared a few times in college just for fun, although I never fought any sanctioned amatuer fights because, well, I'm a bleeder and those punches hurt like hell.

What should be done now? Since our system is predicated on economic exploitation I doubt it'll be banned. So I suppose at the very least head gear should be mandatory and the number of rounds need to be shortened again.

I actually felt ill watching the end results of something that I've enjoyed at the expense of others.

I'm finished, I guess there's breaking point for everything.

Oh well...This thread will probably take a dive like Sonny Liston way back when...

[TroubleMan]

1. I saw that fight live....and drunk

Talk about a pissed off bunch of people.

Taylor was fucking boxing his ass off. Okay, he got rocked at the end and Chavez knows how to punish his opposition in ways nobody else can, and do it on the DL....but dammit to me Taylor won that.

We almost broke the TV we were so mad. To a person, we all thought Chavez lost.

The sad thing is that fight fucked up Taylor's body forever, but for all that he got robbed. At least give him his win for that.

[JanMichael]

3. I understand the anger over the stoppage. That wasn't really my point...

...on this issue however.

I agree he had fought well and would've won had it not been stopped, but the fact is he was fucked up. Chavez while connecting only 1 to 3 punches, but those punches were the ones making a difference that the crowd couldn't see, Chavez was slowly breaking him up inside.

[TroubleMan]

4. yeah, but he got up

He clearly rose to the occasion and beat somebody who was better than him...an unbeaten legend.

He took all that and still got up....he deserved the win.

[JanMichael]

5. But he didn't reply to the "Are you OK" question twice.

At that point he's unable to continue, even with 2, 3, or 5 seconds left. However I agree it's debatable.

Once again though I'm not arguing the decision, that's over and done with.

My problem is with the industry.

[TroubleMan]

6. He looked at his trainer who was calling him....and

there was only 3 seconds left.


You can let it go on 3 seconds.

[JanMichael]

7. Fine. I'm still through with boxing.

ok?

[TroubleMan]

9. That's too bad....there still some good guys boxing

and with talent.

Don't let the corruption ruin it completely for you.

[JanMichael]

10. It's less the corruption than what it does to people.

On the aggregate as well as the individual cases.

Laying permenant waste to who knows how many men, and now women, for a few bucks.

I just won't do it anymore. Yeah, I'll miss those edge of the seat fights that come around every so often but the cost is too high for my blood.

[Elidor]

11. I agree with you: boxing is too vicious

Another sport I can't enjoy anymore is football. I've had it with the notion of watching healthy young athletes destroy eachother's bodies. There is nothing redeeming or rewarding in that. These kids grow up to be painful old geezers who live with crippling injuries and keel over dead at an early age. Most of them only last a handful of years in their chosen profession in the first place. It's a tragic fate. Our culture routinely destroys the best and brightest on the altar of Entertainment and Mammon.

And no one objects.

[H2O Man]

18. It's up to the ref

who is not supposed to make his decision to protect a fighter's safety and well-being based upon the time left in the round/fight, or what people watching from either ringside or their living rooms think.

It was the correct call.

I had bet on MT, and wanted him to win. But, having boxed myself; trained fighters; worked corners; judged fights; and worked as a referee, I can say without any possibility of being wrong that the call was correct.

[TroubleMan]

8. Oh...and I agree on the industry thing.

It's corrupt as shit.

[Zomby Woof]

2. You outlasted me

I was a boxing fan in the 70's and 80's, from watching Ali when I was a kid, to the audacity of HBO hyping an aging Foreman taking on young no-namers.

But the ascent of Tyson was enough for me, and once he bit off that ear...

I felt like Roberto Duran, "No mas! No mas!"

Terribly unregulated and corrupt. Can't even call it a sport.

[derby378]

12. I think American boxers should take a cue from the UK

Now, all matches in the UK require boxers to wear protective headgear during every match. After seeing Muhammad Ali develop Parkinson's disease, I think that would be a great idea.

After all, if you really want pankration, there's the UFC. They might want to keep a spot open for Mike Tyson...

[H2O Man]

19. In professional boxing

headgear are not worn. In amateur fights, they are.

[JanMichael]

13. kick.

Hey, I posted this at almost 1am last night...

[Zomby Woof]

14. Last year or so The Nation had an excellent article

I wish I could dig up the archives on it, but my subscription lapsed... but it was by a longtime boxing fan and why he gave up enjoying it. Lots of great info on the lack of regulation, the anti-union bias, the conflicts of interest making managers into promoters at the same time (Don King of course)... it confirmed what I had long felt in my gut - that boxing must change or die. It will be relegated to freak show status in no time.

[JanMichael]

17. I think I may have that somewhere in the apartment.

Or maybe at my parent's house.

You're right it was a great essay.

[tjdee]

15. It's not fun for me to watch people beating the crap out of each other.

I also don't get Halloween. On November 1, someone dying is sad. For Halloween though, let's put coffins in our yard! Fun! Someone with blood all over them is horrific. But on Halloween, let's find something that looks like real blood! Woo Hoo!

:shrug:

[sasquatch]

16. I think they should fight for fifteen rounds like they used too

[H2O Man]

20. Liston never took a dive.

He lost four professional fights: Marty Marshall, where he had a broken jaw; the loss of the title to Cassius Clay, where he got the hell beaten out of him, and quit in his corner; the rematch with Ali, where he got decked, but was up and fighting again when the ref, Arnold Raymond Cream (aka Jersey Joe Walcott) stopped it, based on Nat Fleischer's saying Liston was down for over 10 seconds, which was not an issue; and to Leotis Martin by knockout at the end of his career.

I assume you mean the second fight with Muhammad. Ali hit him with the same punch that knocked other big strong heavyweights out -- see the second knockdown in the second round with Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams, for but one example of an identicle punch.

Boxing is hurt by promoters who make terrible mis-matches. There are journeymen "club fighters" who through fights for small purses. But most "big" matches are relatively on the up & up, though the scoring often sucks.

[JanMichael]

23. It was late, I was, um, "blocked", so I tossed that in as flame-bait.

I've never actually paid that much attention to the Clay-Liston fights...

[H2O Man]

26. The first one

was actually one of the best heavyweight fights ever.

Have you read Ali's book? He had one of his daughters help him write it. It is among the most amazing books I have ever read. The guy is so impressive. People feel bad for him, because he is trapped in his body .... but this book gives you an idea the quality of his thinking. I've given three copies of it out so far.

[LiberallyInclined]

21. Boxing should be illegal.

It's just plain stupid.

(kinda like the participants and the spectators)

[H2O Man]

22. It should be manditory

to build character.

[JanMichael]

24. There are certainly other ways to built character.

But my problem is with pro-boxing, especially what happens to the brains of those guys that fight every week without head-gear.

Edited for spelling: Apparently all of those soccer balls that I headed in practice have had a lingering effect...

[H2O Man]

25. I was making an

attempt at humor. A previous poster had provided a shallow comment on boxers and boxing fans, which indicated a near-total unfamiliarity with the sport. I merely meant to imply a desire to have those people learn more about the sport. (smile)

I had a friend die in the locker room after an amateur match in upstate NY in the 1970s (Frank Berry). I have a brother who is much like poor Jerry Quarry at the end of his life. Boxing is an ugly sport. Promoters and many managers rank as the lowest life form.

But boxers tend to be gentle, thoughtful, intelligent people. Most have become boxers NOT because they had happy childhoods, or had gotten the best breaks in life .... but for a range of other reasons that has made them the subject of fascination for the very best authors, and a mystery to intellectuals.

For the past couple years, my younger son has wanted to box amateur. I've tried to talk him out of it. I've had my normal brother and my friend Rubin Carter try to talk him out of it. But he's determined to. So I've invested in some new equipment from Everlast & Title. It's hard for me to not get a little excited by the thought of it.