Alternatives to IT as a career

[Deja Q]

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5086181.html

IT is becoming a joke. And with the Dipshit in Office* applauding corporations and telling IT people to do the same thing, fuck 'em all. I'll move elsewhere. (sorry, I've been increasingly angry at this country/world and you're my only outlet, please forgive me.)

It's a pity as I've eyed programming again. (I can set up and configure a server for the most part, but when I did consultant work, I kept reminding clients to back up their systems and they never did. Especially with the lawyer firm, I don't want to be blamed for their forgetfulness. As I have problems with forgetfulness (and what amounts to "logic dyslexia" as well, I don't want to put myself in a position where I could lose data either.)

How about auto mechanics or plumbing? They probably don't pay well, but I don't see the future as being bright with well paying jobs. As the media dances with "57000 new jobs" without telling us the pay quality of the jobs, I already know that a properly paying job will not be available should I get laid off from work.

Assuming I can get a job in the future with those damn psychological rubbish tests (I can hold a job now, why the hell don't they look at that before discounting me?!) But I won't go there right now as the thought of being homeless would drive me to suicide. Too depressing and I still need to follow up with the Best Buy situation, but given how my employer will also be implementing 30 day furloughs for employees, even a 2nd job won't save me... (We're in mediation but I know the union members will not vote for a strike. My employer is hitting really hard this time and they're going to get everything trhey're asking. And it's evil. Especially when they're getting continued full pay and benefits and are trying to raise their salaries as well...)

Thanks.

[BigMcLargehuge]

1. have you considered instructional design?

it's what I do, and I moved to it from early childhood ed... it keeps me in line with technology (I work for a telecom training company) and the actual practive of instructional design isn't all that complicated.

Consultants in ID tend to make good money telling large organizations things they should already know about effectively conveying information.

throw me a PM and I'll tell you more if you are interested in the field.

[morningglory]

7. I believe that it is going to take at least 8 years of crackerjack

Democratic administration to get us back to normalcy, if that. My husband (tech writer and IT person) and I were laid off last year. We got rid of the big house, were willing to give the keys to the bank or just abandon it and ruin our credit--which we just got back after Bush the First--but we lucked out and managed to sell it for not any profit. Growing a garden. Bought a little crackerjack house. Ran the unemployment out looking for adequate jobs. I just found a job in a call center. Lousy work lousy pay, but I want to eat. Simplify your life like it is the Great Depression, and hang in there. Times will turn around again. A friend in Florala, Alabama, called to say they are closing their schools and the kids have to be bussed to Brewton, AL to go to school. Hope some of these Rush Limbots learn that there is a reason for taxes.

[ReadTomPaine]

20. That is one of the most upsetting aspects regarding this situation...

Whenever things seem to be going well, and the future starts to look bright, along comes a Republican administration to screw it all up and set us back another decade or two. After all, you can’t have too many wealthy, happy people around or your own wealth won’t mean nearly as much and the sweet buttery taste of power you have over your fellow man starts to disappear.

Don’t for a minute think it isn’t political, it’s very political. The vast majority of those kicked out of these new-money jobs were democratic and progressive leaning, while the old money boardrooms and managers that repelled them were conservative and republican. I knew many conservative executives who took glee in the chance to ‘clean house’ of the liberals in their establishment, feeling newly empowered to do so with a supportive republican national mood and the wielding of unilateral authority seen as a positive ‘take charge’ attribute. It’s ugly.

[Don_G]

2. If You're Smart Enough

To know how a building is "built", you won't starve in my area.

Spanish beyond the next beer depot will be considered a plus...no offense, but I speak from experience.

Feel free to PM me with contact names and numbers.

[lcordero]

3. Can you point me towards the reference of the so-called 57,000 new jobs?

[Deja Q]

5. Agreed

Compuserve had chided the #s. But I bet a lot of the jobs are part time and/or inconsequential types. :-(

I mean, Target's hiring right now. When I applied at Best Buy, they were enthused and said they had tech positions available. But I know what they pay. It's inconsequential.

[lcordero]

8. I was wondering because somebody in these forums debunked

the report of these 57,000 "new" jobs

[TreasonousBastard]

4. Auto Mechanics!!!!!!

No, I'm not kidding.

Good Mercedes techs make well over $100,000 around here, and everyone else is screaming for mechanics, so you can pretty well write your own ticket. No one knows how long it's going to last, but if you're good, you can always find work.

For some reason, that mass of motorheads that used to occupy service bays has dried up, and everyone's looking for help. Dealers are financing the local VoTech schools around here just to have some new meat come down the pike.

And, it's the sort of thing that you can't outsource to India.

Aircraft maintenance, I mean general aviation--private jets, is another one that seems to be booming, and if you're trained to work on a jet, you should be able to find something someone will pay you to fix if that goes sour.

[Deja Q]

6. Probably auto mechanics them

Due to 9/11, I wouldn't go near a craft.

If the mechanics shops would allow me to keep a checklist so I do't forget to plug back in something, then that's no problem either. :D

[ReadTomPaine]

19. This is an excellent suggestion and will serve anyone well…

…even after they go back into their chosen field. Knowing your way around an automobile is a truly liberating skill in our car-centered culture and is indispensible when it's time to buy one, new or used. Not to mention the satisfaction of knowing when a mechanic is lying to you or dealing honestly.

[coyote]

27. I have to agree....

my father works for BMW and they canot find enough mechanics at all. There is a 2 month waiting list just to get service on your car. They are building another shop with 22 bays to catch up with the backlog. Not bad money either...60 and up in the Boston area.

[northzax]

29. where did the motorheads go?

or gearheads, as we called them? simple. you simply cannot, with some simple tools, work on modern cars in your driveway anymore. Sure, I can change the oil, flush the radiator, even do sparkplugs (not that I ever do these things myself any more, but I can and have) I remember as a kid, in the early 80's, watching my neighbor work on his brakes. try that on a 04 honda. or adjusting the carbeurator? find one. the fact is that you need the computerizes equipment in a garage or dealership to do these things anymore. you can't rebuild a 5 year old car in your backyard, with readily avaliable tools, it's not possible. so there are no longers guys hanging around the driveway, drinking beer and working on cars. that time has passed.

[ReadTomPaine]

37. You’re showing your age!

Those gearsheads still exist in spades and they are the driving force behind most of the excitement on the road today. While they don’t work on Chevelles or Barracudas anymore, they do work on Hondas, Mitsubishis, Subarus and a whole host of hot imports doing everything from high end brake retrofits to full on overbores and custom turbo/superchargers systems.

While I don’t care for the SEMA aspects of the subculture (Silly bodywork and boom-boom stereos - now I'm showing *my* age!) I’ve driven more than my share of these modded vehicles on and off the track in all forms of competition, and I can tell you first hand that the gearheads of old have nothing on these guys. Pulling 11-12 sec 1/4 miles in some of these cars is easy. And computerized engine control? That’s something a smart tuner, a laptop and a few code tweaks can fix to their hearts delight.

If fast cars, racing and the gearhead culture are still in your blood, you owe it to yourself to take a peek and get involved again. It’s never been better to be an auto enthusiast than it is now.

[Wilber_Stool]

9. Repeat after me..........

would you like to Super Size?

[Deja Q]

10. Well that's a bold statement for a newbie...

Sheesh, that's a bold statement.

Cold statement too. Very cold.

You don't make friends easily, do you?

Welcome to DU, but methinks you won't be around for too much longer if my guess is right.

Love your pic and sig line too. Speaks volumes, it does.

[trogdor]

35. Strangely appropriate, though.

Farking neocons won't be happy until there are only minimum wage service jobs left in the economy. If that wasn't the point, what was it?

Give the guy a break.

[HuckleB]

11. Nursing --

Become an RN, and live wherever you want to live. Good job, good pay. Granted, it's one beast of a BS to get, but... you'll never get bored, if you play your cards right.

Later, go back and head down the Nurse Practitioner route, when you want a little more responsibility and money.

[Book Lover]

17. Nursing's not a casual choice

I would never want to discourage someone from going into nursing if they feel they want to, but it's a calling, not a job. Never get bored...? Well, yes, but prepare yourself to have your heart ripped out on a regular basis. Nurses can never be paid enough for what they have to do, and they don't get paid all that well, considering what they have to give of themselves to be good.

HuckleB, are you a nurse yourself? If so, I completely defer, as I am not - my mother went back to school and became a visiting nurse, then went into public health.

[HuckleB]

26. You're right, it's not casual choice.

Yes, I am a nurse: A Pediatric Nurse Practitioner, and I am about to finish my training as Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

12. I've said it before and I'll say it again--

Don't let the world tell you what you have to do for your wages. Instead, tell the world what you're going to do to earn your money!

Figure out what you can do and what you really WANT to do, and start your own business! I refer you to a little rant I posted just last night: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=251496

Fight, dammit. Don't let the heartless bastards win.

[Xithras]

13. Running is a mistake. Expand your skills.

I'm in IT. I'm in California. According to the pundits, I should be unemployed right now. In truth, however, the pundits are wrong. These studies on outsourcing indicate that 10% of IT jobs will be overseas next year. That means 90% of them will still be RIGHT HERE, occupied by skilled Americans.

Let me tell you something: even as the dot-boom went dot-bust and IT people across the state were being let go, I had people offering me jobs and more money. Even today, as many IT people struggle trying to find employment that pays higher wages than McDonalds, I have headhunters and HR managers trying to pry me away from my current job with offers of higher pay and benefits (my office is 5 minutes from my house and I never see a freeway...I'm not budging anytime soon). What's the secret to my success when so many others are failing at their careers? I can install and configure HP and Cisco switches, routers, and PIX firewalls. I can build a server from parts, and configure it to run solo or clustered with Windows NT/2000, Linux, Solaris, IRIX, and even MacOSX. I can do management level CBA's on hardware/software projects and validly demonstrate when and why third party contracotrs should be brought in, and when and why certain things should be done in house. I can program applications in C++, Java, Delphi, COBOL, VB, VB.NET, C#, and a few other languages you've probably never heard of (Unibasic anyone?). I can create dynamic websites using ASP, PERL, .Net, JSP, Cold Fusion, and PHP. I can develop databases in MySQL, Oracle 7+, MS-SQL, and on about a half dozen other platforms. I have extensive experience in graphic design and specific training in computer interface engineering. I can recite the state and federal laws regarding computer accessibility for the handicapped, verbatim, and tell you nearly every method commonly implemented today to verify that computer systems are accessible to all. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I should mention at this point that I'm also a high school dropout with no college degree. What I have, however, is a home library with over $9,000 worth of books on how to learn this or that technology. I am CONSTANTLY reading and learning about the "next big thing" and the newest technologies, so that I'll be ready when employers want them (I'm reading a book on enterprise Grid Computing implementation right now). Technology is, and always has been, a rapidly changing and highly fluid field, and you MUST be willing to diversify your skills and CONSTANTLY learn new things if you want to survive. Too many people jumped into IT in the late 90's and became the technological equivalent of a "one trick pony".

The vast majority of people dumping IT seem to miss that final point, or they hear it and don't quite understand it. My best friend is also one of the most skilled C++ programmers I've ever met, and like you he's bailing because he can't find a job. When I suggested diversifying, he learned Java and quickly found that Java/C++ programmers are a dime a dozen (and only a nickel in India). When I suggested that he diversify further, learning networking equipment, RDBMS's, and even project management type business process skills, he looked at me like I was from Mars. "Do you have any idea what kind of work it would take to learn all of that?" Yes, actually, I do.

If you want to stay in IT, you need to decide whether you're willing to make the lifestyle choices that will be required to stay up-to-date in the field, and to learn enough technology to be different. For me, that often means forgoing the TV programs I want to see in order to pore over some cryptic technical manual or missing my daughters soccer games in order to attend some class or technology training. My career isn't just something I deal with 8-5 on weekdays, it's a part of my life that demands constant attention. Why do I do this? Because where I work, we frequently hire high school and college students to build and manage our PC's and servers. Because my nine year old daughter can program in Java and diagram her source code in UML. And because there are millions of programmers in India who consider $5 an hour to be damned good wages. I realized a long time ago that if I really wanted to make a career out of IT, I had to prove myself more skilled and more valuable than my young daughter, than those high school kids, or those Indian's. It's worth it to me, but is it to you?

[Deja Q]

18. Well, I envy you

Unfortunately, I am not you. And as much as I've tried, it takes me days just to read one chapter and in the end I still don't understand it all. (Network protocols, namely TCP/IP, I just can't fathom.) I have to do things, not read them, to understand them. And even then I still have troubles. My only salvation is by schooling and tutoring. That's very costly, especially when I've seen IT job positionsd require more credentials for less salary. That's BULL****.

There is a response to a zdnet article http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5086181.html from a person who also sees the futility of IT:

http://forums.com.com/group/zd.News.Talkback/zdnn/tb.tpt/@thread@242262@forward@1@D-,D@ALL/@article@242262?EXP=ALL&VWM=hr&ROS=1&PAGETP=2100&SHOST=zdnet.com.com&NODEID=1104

That says it all. Sorry, but I want a semblence of a life along with a career, even though I have no life and a joke of a career. Doing new IT stuff 24/7 with all the certs and creds is just pointless.

And I love to learn new things and try to. When I get the chance. Forgive me, but where the fuck do I buy a Cisco router to learn how to configure, huh? Unlike you, I can't afford $2000 just to buy it in order to tinker.

Besides, my employer keeps everybody compartmentalized. They don't want people to learn outside their designated tasks, even though recently I have been showing that, wow, I am capable of doing more outside my box. Maybe reading does help, it's a matter of finding when it works and when it doesn't. That's irrelevant, but it's just more depressing nonsense to waste your time with.

One other thing, I work for the MN Workforce Center - well, they're technically more of a client rather than my employer. I've seen TONS of IT people come in looking for jobs that aren't there. Unlike you with your valuable luck, I get to see REALITY. And it's damn depressing. Don't give me your smurfy song, I don't buy it. I can't.

Yes, I will admit I probably found TV to be a narcotic and I'm addicted to it. Well, you're probably a normal person who has the ability to focus and cope. You have a drive I lack. You're so much the better person for it and I'm just a waste of a human life. I'll buy that.

Like the callous meanie said, "You want that supersized?" might be accurate in the end. And if life turns that sour, damn right I'm going to kill myself. By now, fast food has turned to those damn "qualification tests" anyway, which I seem to fail every stinking time despite being able to hold a job for 7 years elsewhere. x( I hate this society anyway and am finding suicide to be preferable anyway.

[Xithras]

28. Maybe switching careers IS right for you.

A lot of people jumped into IT in the 90's because the money was good and didn't look at the fact that this is an ENGINEERING field. Unlike accounting, law, public service, or other "traditional" careers where a skillset can be learned young and carried through life, computer engineering skills have a finite lifespan and require constant updating. I've seen programmers go from skilled, high-demand hotshots to unemployable has-beens in the span of a few years because they sat on their laurels and didn't keep pace with technology. There is NOTHING new about this...it's been the case since I wrote my first line of code in 1983 (BTW, I don't see much call for VMS or Burroughs mainframe programmers anymore...I've done both in the past). The typical technology skillset is viable for 3-5 years, with a few lucky individuals eking 10-15 years out of a single skill...and they are a extreme minority.

So how is an IT person supposed to keep up his skills? You can pay a college or training center to teach you new skills, but you aren't likely to stick with it long as the costs will eat up a substantial portion of your income and you'll quickly find yourself in a "costs don't justify the income" situation. The better way is to teach yourself. If I've noticed one common thread among successful IT people over the years, it's this: The people who have the most success are almost exclusively the self-starting, self-motivationg technology lovers who ENJOY poring over technical manuals and training books. To these kinds of people, working with technology isn't just a job, it's an entire lifestyle. These people learn skills that have nothing to do whatsoever with their jobs simply because they enjoy the experience of learning new things. My current study of grid and distributed computing models for scientific research, for example, has absolutely nothing to do with my current job and my employer isn't even aware that I'm interested in the field. It just fascinated me.

As brutal as this may sound, if you aren't willing to spend the time to learn the new technologies on your own, maybe you just weren't cut out for this field. It's nothing against you personally...people who hate running and climbing stairs shouldn't be firemen, people with poor imaginations shouldn't be writers, and people with poor balance shouldn't work in skyscraper construction...some people just aren't suited to some jobs. My personal belief is that MANY people in IT today are only there because of the money, even though a large percentage aren't suited to the lifelong learning curve that the field requires. Most of these people will probably shake out of the industry over the next 5-10 years, primarily leaving behind the same hardcore "techie-types" that dominated the field in the pre-boom days.

There's nothing wrong with changing careers. Heck, I was originally planning on becoming an airline mechanic until I decided that I didn't like the hectic schedules, poor working conditions, and mindless monotony. I switched from a career that I thought was right, to one that ended up being perfect. I wish you luck and hope you can do the same.

Oh, and I bought my Cisco router for $228 on eBay.

[ReadTomPaine]

38. I agree with this point - you have to love tech to be good at it...

Not sure if that will help as much in the current job climate, but overall and esp. long term, you have to love to read the books and the magazines if you want to be IT. Your grid computing comments are a perfect example of this.

I also agree about the self training- I haven't seen a single case in high tech where classwork training outperformed self taught personal interest.

As you mentioned further downthread, however, it's not the field right now that's the problem, it's the current administration and the mess they have gotten us into. We live in a culture of fear right now, and that's not a good atmosphere for business/career growth if you're not a war profiteer. That's not likely to change until the administration does.

[ReadTomPaine]

14. I have found that most employers are deathly afraid of skilled applicants.

There is no better job protection that making sure that you hire someone less capable than yourself, and that seems to be the golden rule of employment during this new depression esp. in California. Of my many associates in IT, all of whom are literally internationally renown in high tech (cover story writers, hardware designers, lab directors, lecture circuit speakers, PhD’s, etc) not a single one can find employment and skills aren’t the reason. I have had countless conversations with them over the last several years that go something like this

“As we spoke in their office, I could see the cold fear creep into their eyes as they realized I knew much more than they did not just about IT, but their own job/field as well. And they knew that I knew.”

People being hired today have to know just enough to do the job, but not represent anything but facile docility otherwise, or they will be tossed out on the street. People are not just hiring but also selecting their future competition, making sure that they don’t wind up overboard if things go bad and the only way they can do this is by selecting hires with an eye towards eventual confrontation. Can’t have anyone too sharp, too experienced or too close to their own skill set, or the gig is up when the budgets inevitably get slashed. Self preservation overrides all other concerns. With that sort of mentality at the heart of business, it’s no wonder the bloom is off the rose and the sun is nowhere in sight.

Associated with this is the change in corporate culture towards IT. There’s been a marked shift towards thinking of IT as glorified plumbers and shutting even senior IT managers and directors from steering committees and similar executive decisions, even though much of the growth of the 90’s was due to proper technology planning and implementation.

The line of reasoning you’ll hear is some thing akin to “If we don’t have an IT Director and just keep a part time LAN Manager who doubles as desktop support along with a few interns, we’ll save money on salary and won’t have to pay benefits”. Given the precipitous fall in IT service quality in the last 3-4 years, it’s pretty clear this is a penny wise/ pound foolish decision, but in truth the deeper reason is cultural.

Senior employees in just about every industry openly resented the ‘new power’ that IT wielded in the boardroom. Why did these newcomers rate a seat at the big table and a slice of a finite budget, when they hadn’t played the game for decades with the rest of the old boy’s club? The first chance that came along, they slapped these newcomers down hard as they could. So you had IT Directors laid off and replaced with IT Managers who were laid off and replaced with Senior Technicians or just consultants.

The other trend was to infiltrate IT with non technical people in the upper levels, Enron executive types who squeezed ‘value’ from technology departments, gaming the company for a sweetheart bail out deal while actually setting up barriers to anyone technologically capable or born of the digital culture from attaining anything but implementation roles. Carly Fiorina and the way she’s virtually destroyed the engineers culture of Silicon Valley heart HP for the car-salesman culture of Texas-based Compaq is about as good an example as you can get, both literally and figuratively.

Unfortunately, things don’t look like they are getting better. Times like these are best spent being as fiscally restrained as possible and being as creative regarding income sources as skills allow. The Depression analogies seem rather apt. If others such as Xithras have honestly found placement services that are actually hiring in California based on merit/skills, all I can say is email me their contact info so some of my friends can give it a shot and try to make their rent.

[Xithras]

15. The usual services

Robert Half International, TAC Worldwide, Hall Kinion, and a few others have contacted me in the past few months trying to get me into specific positions (all of which would have fit me well, but I don't want to ever deal with the 580/680 split again!) I've also been directly contacted by a few companies (no idea where they got my resume), but the most recent was several weeks back, so I'm sure those positions are already filled. All I can say to your friends are: 1) Diversify 2) Stick with the largest major headhunters...it's a waste of time to deal with the little guys or internationals with no local offices (local companies rarely deal with them). 3) Don't give up.

I should probably also offer a #4 here...heck, it should have been in my FIRST post. IT guys should try to develop a specific niche talent...it'll make you more easily marketable. As an example, my niche: I develop both web and client-server middleware for government and educational clients running ERP tools from Peoplesoft, IBM, and a number of other vendors. When those types of clients are looking for a programmer with those types of skills, I can demonstrate where my specific knowledge of their field and technologies places me at an advantage above the throngs of generic programmers also scrambling for the job. Should that niche ever vanish, I have a backup niche: I have extensive experience with online courseware and distance learning tools utilized by nearly all of the nations higher-ed institutions. I'm also developing a second backup niche right now: Software development specifically for shared computing/processing environments in the research world (public or private).

It's not enough to be a "Java Programmer" anymore, because being a Java programmer isn't a career. You need to find a business, service, or industry, find out how to make your skills fit that business, service, or industry, find out EVERYTHING about your selection, and market yourself specifically to them. As long as you pick a good industry (I wouldn't recommend textiles, for example), you WILL find a job.

I've had headhunters tell me flat out that their file cabinets are full of resumes from unemployable generic programmers who may be good at programming, but who aren't really saleable. I'm employable specifically because I took the time to develop my skills towards my target niches, which makes me an easy sell when those niches are looking for programmers. It's a solid, proven tactic for staying employed, and it's one that I highly recommend to ANYONE who wants to keep a career in programming.

[ReadTomPaine]

16. The local Hall Kinion rep was laid off & came to me for a job, actually.

He wanted to know if we could hire him or if I had any leads as his own efforts and leads had been fruitless, despite his professional contacts in the placement biz.

Ironically it’s likely your lack of any degree that keeps you employed- that makes you a skilled hired gun, but will keep you from ever being a threat to anyone near management. And it *is* happening all around you- those high school students that you work with are a good example. That’s basically little better than child labor, and an open threat to the rest of the IT workforce to stay in line.

I’m willing to bet that many of those books on your shelf were written by friends of mine who are currently unemployed/underemployed. Your formula may work, but don’t assume that your unique set of circumstances can be duplicated, and don’t assume that retraining is the answer that fits all dilemmas. As an example- what if *you* were the hiring person at the head of a programming team, and in came the guy who wrote the book you studied to get the job. He’s got all of your skills, helped to code the commercial complier your team uses, packs a PhD, management expertise and about 20 years experience on you, among other things. He’ll work for less, and he’s lean and hungry. Most people in that situation wouldn’t see a coworker, they would see a threat. “Overqualified” suddenly becomes the word of the day. In the current climate they would do anything they could to keep this guy from talking to their boss.

Don’t misunderstand; your advice is well considered and good info for most people on the hunt. But also be thankful that you are lucky enough to have found a strategy that works for you. Never fall into the trap of thinking that you’ll always be able to find a job, or your daughter may have to put those Java skills to work sooner than you think.

[Xithras]

32. My lack of a degree is a benefit?

Interesting take...I've never looked at it that way before. I should mention that I do have a GED (took the test and quit HS at 16 BTW, with the only perfect score in my districts history), but that my educational level has only been brought up once in my career...Intel once turned me away from a consulting position because I didn't have a BS. Other than that, it's never even come up. I'm not much of a threat to managers anyway; I went that route for the pay raises once and quit within a few months...the job was boring, I wasn't able to work with the technology anymore, and I just decided that it wasn't worth it.

As for your friends, sadly, I can sympathize. I also know several skilled, dedicated programmers who are underemployed right now simply because of the glut of unemployable programmers on the market. They WERE all unemployed until they took my advice and attacked a specific niche market. That got them jobs, but they're still working their way in. The niche solution DOES work, but it takes a little time. The whole market will improve over time as many of the unemployable programmers fall off the fringes, but it will probably take a few years for the field to stabilize again and open enough positions for the good programmers to get back to work. Getting Bush out of office would help too :-)

Oh, and I HAVE sat on hiring committees, and I NEVER turn away programmers that are more skilled than I. On the contrary, I attribute half my success to working closely with better programmers than myself and LEARNING from them. I realize I'm the minority on this one nowadays and have been in the situation you described, but keep in mind that not ALL employers have IT departments run by those kinds of short-sighted idiots.

[Character Assassin]

21. Have you considered something like EMS, fire or police?

It's incredibly rewarding, offers very solid pay and benefits depending on where one is located, changes every single day, and offers insight into the human condition that is, to my experience, simply not available anywhere else.

I was at one time employed in that area, and am arranging things now so that I can return to it hopefully latest by January.

[ReadTomPaine]

22. Fire and EMS are noble callings, not sure so about police work though.

Just take a look at what happened in Fresno recently. I'd also have problems stuffing people into those 'free speech' cages. Law enforcement is a tough sell to a true progressive these days.

[Character Assassin]

33. I was an LEO, and it's likely that's what I'm going back to.

Not all police are goons, but then, I'm not a true progessive.

LEOs, esp in larger, urban areas, are comprised of a very wide latitude of backgrounds, personalities and attitudes.

[jsw_81]

23. If you're really smart, go to law school

Newly minted grads from top schools (Harvard, Yale etc.) are paid $125,000 a year at most big city firms.

[northzax]

30. don't do this

unless you want to be a lawyer. and can go to a top ten school. I know plenty of miserable lawyers seduced by the money who hate everythings about their jobs.

[ReadTomPaine]

39. Law is also littered with low paying office jobs filled with burnouts...

It's almost as tough a field as medicine- only a precious few make it to the high paying jobs, and they are almost always connected via family or financial ties.

[sleipnir]

24. So Sorry...

This seems to be true of a lot of the IT people I know. Not to be insensitive, but the IT industry is just like the .com stock's. Overvalued, too many of them, easy to create (or get the degree) and in the end, the world realized that tech revolution would have to wait several years.

I feel bad, and I hope you can find a pleasing job that has future security. Teaching is not a bad choice, as long as there's reproduction, someone's gotta educate the masses.

[sandnsea]

25. Union trade apprentice

Maybe you can see if they have something like these programs in your state.

http://www.efn.org/~labor_ed/jatc.htm

[JVS]

31. Professional Revolutionary

Pay sucks but the hours are great. Satisfying work.

[GregW]

34. Stick with it (IT)

I've done it for 23 years, been laid off, been acquired, have acquired, road the dotcom rocket to dizzying heights only to have it bury itself in the earth.

I have never done anything else but IT, and would not trade it for anything. Believe it or not, companies ARE hiring ... I've had to bring on almost a dozen people this year alone.

Once * is kicked out we should see a recovery and then guess who will be in demand again?

[Johnyawl]

36. Construction

I left the IT field nearly 5 years ago, and went into construction. (I'd been doing home repairs & remodeling as an amatuer for 20 years, and really enjoyed the work.) It was the best move I ever made. I'm happy and enjoy what I'm doing. What makes it even better is that in January I started my own company, and have worked for myself for the last 10 months. I'm working fulltime, and making good money. I'm almost making as much money as my wife, who stayed in IT, and is a well paid SysAd.