Who else thinks ACT's and SAT's suck completely?

[Darth_Ole]

I'm in high school and pretty soon I'll be applying for college.

I hate all standardized tests, and I hate the fact that if you get a bad score on one of these tests, it closes down so many opportunities. I know, they say, "You can take these things over and over again." Regardless, I think they are pretty poor indicators of intelligence. And some folks don't have the money to keep taking these tests over and over.

Who's with me? Are there better ways of judging students' intelligence?

[DrWeird]

1. Yeah, they're terrible.

Pointless bullshit.

[Goldeneye]

2. They suck...but there still what colleges look at...

my best advice is to do as many practice tests before hand as possible, and take a couple of swigs of caffeinated pop right before the test. And when you get to the science section of the ACTs you don't really need to read the instructions. Its all graph interpretation.

[ashmanonar]

3. of course it's a bad indicator of intelligence.

that's why the bushies like standardized testing so much!

well, that, and they get paid off by Big Testing to make these tests mandatory...so Big Testing gets paid for it...

[NC_Nurse]

4. I did great on the SAT's, too bad they

don't predict college performance at all. I was an emotional mess and dropped out of college after the first semester. Don't let the tests discourage you. I'm sure you are much more together than I was then and all they show is how well you can take a test.

[Halliburton]

5. Are you going to have to take the new SAT?

If so, thats gotta suck with the essay and the more advanced math they're putting on there. The old one was bad enough!

[SheilaT]

6. Standardized tests

tend to equalize school quality and make up for the grade inflation that's so rampant in many schools.

Keep in mind that there's LOTS of help out there to help you prepare for them. Back when I took the tests about 40 years ago, there weren't hundreds of books out there with sample tests. Makes a difference.

If you sincerely think the poor scores on those tests are not an accurate reflection of your abilities, you should be able to get good documentation of that. Letters of recommendation from your teachers. Your grades. In fact, high grades and not very good tests scores don't hurt as much as high tests scores and poor grades. In the first case the high grades are usually evidence of a student who works hard. In the second, it may well be a student who's too lazy or arrogant to work hard in class.

One bad test score doesn't close as many doors as you think it does. Many public schools use a formula that depends on some combination of test scores, high school grades, and specific classes.

It's possible some kind of portfolio is a much better indicator of your abilities. And what's being judged is not so much intelligence as suitability for college work. Taking the most challenging classes you possibly can, including honors and APs where ever possible, matters a whole lot more to colleges than a few test scores. If you skate by in high school and take the minimum to graduate, even perfect SAT and ACT scores won't matter.

Depending on what your options are for college applications, there are schools out there that make standardized test scores optional. Here's a link to a list of such schools: http://www.fairtest.org/optstat.htm

Good luck!

[Nikia]

7. They are a good credential for students from bad high schools

Of course highly competitive colleges usually have both economic and racial affirmative action in the interst in diversity, but they may hesitate to take many of these students if they didn't have these credentials. Some high schools do not offer AP classes or even much of a college prep program. Being the top student at some of these schools does not mean you are Harvard or Yale material. They might admit students with lower SATs from these schools in the interst of diversity as well as recognizing that these students probably have potential since they managed to excel despite their poo oppurtunities, but these students still have to have scored significantly above average to prove that they could handle the coursework.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

8. I concur.

I did well on my SAT but my ACT score was nowhere near my intelligence level. They're ridiculous.

[wheresthemind]

9. Don't get me started...

Our Education system needs the shit kicked out of it...

Seriously, need to completely reevaluate the whole thing...

I could run circles around almost anyone, teachers and administration included in Government, current events, civic policy, things like that, yet there is no test that will recognize that.

I get crappy grades, but I learn a lot. I spend so much of my time working on campaigns, attending programs, conferences, meeting, and everything of course my work will suffer!

I even got a letter of recommendation from my state rep, who is a graduate and highly praised Alumni of the school I wanted to attend, and still got refused.

[SheilaT]

16. Getting crappy grades

because other things are more important to you than doing school work would tend to make colleges think you're not the kind of student they want. They have this silly little idea that a student ought to take classes seriously.

As someone who has attended college on and off my entire adult life (I graduated h.s. in 1965) and now have over 200 semester hours of credit, I constantly tell the 19 year olds in my classes that the reason I get good grades is that one, I always attend class and two, I always do my homework. It's amazing what a difference those two things make.

[wheresthemind]

20. My problem was...

That I got crappy grades my Freshman and Sophomore years....

Junior and Senior years my average was in the high Bs. They could have been even higher had it not been for all this:


Public Service and Internships
2005 – Volunteer and graphic design for Donna Cassutt for DFL Associate Chair
2005- Internship with R.T. Rybak for Mayor campaign
2004 - Internship on Kerry-Edwards campaign
2004 - Minnesota for Kucinich Steering Committee Member and Head of Technology Committee
2004 - DFL 5th Congressional District Director
2004 - DFL State Central Committee Member
2004 - State Steering Committee Minnesota YMCA Youth in Government
2002 - Volunteer for Sen. Paul Wellstone’s senatorial campaign

School Activities
2002-2004 - Student Government
2001-2004 – Intramural Sports
2004 - Volunteer with 3rd Way program
2003 - Role in High School production of “Wit”
2003 - Speech Team
2002 - Hosted French Exchange Student
2001 - Track Team

Educational Programs
2004-2005 - Minnesota Youth in Government Model Assembly
2004 - Camp Wellstone
2004 - Foundation for Teaching Economics: Economics for Leaders, Georgetown University, Washington D.C.
2004 - LeadAmerica’s Congressional Leadership Conference
2004 - American Legion’s Boys State
2004 - Minnesota Youth in Government’s Conference on National Affairs
2004 - Minnesota Youth in Government’s Model UN

Other
2001-2004 – Brave New Workshop’s Youth Improv Troupe

I learn more in these single week programs and campaigns then I do in years of school. We have become far to test oriented, we have moved away from hands on, practical experience learning. What happens more often then not is a teacher pops in a video! We can't have discussions because we have to prep for the test. I memorize and regurgitate, I can't remember half the stuff I learned in school. Even remembering what was on my last test!

I suffered because I attended a poor school my 6th and 7th grade years so I missed a lot of core academics. This hurt me in Math, English, and Foreign Language. Why in God's name they teach us foreign language in high-school when our bodies are built to learn it early on is beyond me.

But I am always active and attentive in class, I enjoy learning and have maintained a full schedule. I do well on the tests and the assignments that are not just busy work. We need to look at the education systems of Europe, that are much more rigorous, and see what we are missing.

Its horrible when a girl who gets straight As, a good ACT score, and is going to a top notch university mistakes Afghanistan and Iraq and thinks Saddam was in charge of Al Queda, confuses the Articles of Confederation with the Declaration of Independence, and all kinds of mistakes like that is considered a better contribution to a college campus.

[SheilaT]

23. The problem is,

you're competing for the top-notch schools against girls like that. She has the grades and the test scores, and none of the admissions people are going to learn about her ignorance of the wider world.

Your essays would make you stand out, especially if you find a way to bring in some of those amazing things you've done.

And if you're only applying to schools that use a grade and test score formula, which means only state universities and colleges, well, you can do better than that.

Having now guided two sons through this whole miserable process, I really do have sympathy. It's so hard to make yourself stand out. One college admissions officer pointed out that there will be a lot of other students with grades and test scores just like yours. It's the essay that distinguishes you from the crowd.

It sucks big time that you had a poor preparation, and that's not your fault. But what you do have control over is how hard you study and how hard you work to overcome that. Improvement in grades also matters a lot.

Something else to keep in mind. If you really cannot get into a good school that you honestly think you'd do well in, go instead to your local junior college for a year. Make straight A's. Re-apply to those other schools. Now your test scores will not matter at all, but your college grades will be everything.

My oldest son flunked out of a prestigious small liberal arts college (he's very smart but has some learning disabilities we didn't deal with properly), came home and attended the local junior college for three semesters, and now is happily ensconced in a nearby state university. He struggles to get decent grades because of his disabilities, and I'm not fully convinced he'll actually be able to finish college, but we're dealing with it one day at a time.

The very best thing about our educational system is the fact that if you don't get admitted to Harvard right out of high school, the doors are not slammed in your face.

Hang in there.

[annabanana]

10. If it weren't for the fact that I have high school aged kids...

I would never have given those stupid tests another thought in my life. Aside from admission they have NOTHING to do with your life ever again (Until, of course, you have high school aged kids)

[Left Is Write]

11. I never took the SAT.

I took the pSAT only because I wanted a National Merit Scholarship (I missed eligibility by one percentage point!). For college entrance, I took the ACT. I'm a good test-taker, so I had an advantage. I don't think it necessarily follows that I am more intelligent than any given person who received a lower score.

[LiberallyInclined]

12. I never took the SAT's but in 1977 I got a 32 composite on the ACT

I was in the 99th percentile across the board. My math section was perfect, and my English section was my lowest, with a score of 29.

And ultimately I never made it thru college-

[Left Is Write]

18. Are you me?

I got a 32 also, but my sections were flip flopped - English was my best and math was my lowest.

I didn't finish college either. I did go back to school at age 24, but I received certification rather than a degree.

[sans qualia]

13. Hate hate hate hate hate

hate hate hate hate hate hate hate standardized tests. :nuke:

[ProgressiveConn]

14. I agree completely! Although...

I'd be in a much worse position if there were no SATs. I was a high C low B student in high school (no effort, saw myself as a dumb jock) and never met my guidance councilor until the day he got my SAT scores. =)

[Nikia]

15. They are much too long for the average high school student

My average class period in high school was 42 minutes. Final exams were 1 hour. Other tests did not exceed the class period. Most classes and tests did not fill the whole time. Taking a stressful, demanding test much longer than that was a grueling mental endevor for myself and many other students. If possible, I would have rather had a shorter test that was in line with the length of most of the other tests that I had to take.

[crimson333]

17. I get my Master's in may and I never took the act or sat

I went to a community college my first year and the transferred to a major university

[njdemocrat106]

19. I think I got a 1040 on my SAT

Does that make me a moran?

[Left Is Write]

21. No, it makes you a tax form.

:D

[mr fry]

22. yes they suck but

if you blow it go to a JC then transfer

no one looks at you grades after you hit the job market

[movie_girl99]

24. i feel your pain

my daughter will graduate this year and shes going through that too. I think anyone that wants to go to college should be able to go and if you fail out then i guess one wasn't meant for college anyway. Even to get into community college here, i think you need to have an SAT of 1050 but from what I've heard NCAA athletes only need like an 850 to get into a university on scholarship WTF is that about?

[jody]

25. It appears you hate tests that evaluate you and use results that affect

your life.

Sorry but in most career fields, you will be tested in various ways and results will be used in ways that affect your career.

Your alternatives are to drop out of society or start your own business. If you start your own business, you will be tested by customers continually.

Bottom line is learn to live with competition or drop out.