DU this poll on Iraq

[imenja]

I'm looking for a larger sample if possible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1551870&mesg_id=1551870

[rbnyc]

1. Well...

Since you posted twice, so will I. Here's my reply:

This poll just makes us look bad.

First of all, it's just not that simple. I can't pick either option. Number one in just not a possibility at this point. Anything resembling Democracy that emerges in the given situation is just illusory. In favor of Democracy, Iraq really has to start again from the ground up, and if the only legitimate role for the US, IMHO, is to rebuild infrastructure.

I can't pick number 2, because even though in the long term it will be better for the farce to crumble and for an illegal foreign policy to be shown as ineffective as well, it just looks bad. The option is badly phrased and in juxtaposition to an ideal that's not realizable at this point, just gives our opposition the opportunity to see us as people who want to be right at any cost.

Bad poll.

[sniffa]

2. very bad poLL

[kick-ass-bob]

3. Why would I vote for either?

Because neither will happen.

[sniffa]

4. c'mon bob

some "news" outLet needs some new materiaL to rip on.

[imenja]

5. I am not a news outlet,

I am simply curious. this is not a scientific poll and would be useless for news outlets.

I created the poll after reading responses on this thread to the elections. The view here was so different from the press coverage, not just our own but on Al Jazeera and Arab networks, that I began to wonder if distaste for Bush framed how some see every action in the world these days. For some, it clearly does.
Most all of us on DU see the Iraq war as a travesty and believe chaos and death are the only possible outcomes. Sunday, however, Iraqis seemed very happy to be voting--again, based not just on the eulogization in the American media, but based on coverage of the elections in the Arab world as well. It seems to me possible, though unlikely, that Iraqis could create a representative government in spite of the US occupation and war rather than because of us. The poll, at any rate, is not meant to measure what you think will happen, but what you would like to happen.
One factor I did not think of until after creating the poll, is that some respond chaos because they believe success in Iraq will trigger future unjust wars. That strikes me as quite reasonable.
If you don't want to vote, don't do so. But don't accuse me of being a Republican or a news reporter. I am neither.

[sniffa]

6. don't be so defensive

i don't appreciate your poLL, but i wasn't impLying you were a news outLet.

[imenja]

9. your post

your post: "some "news" outLet needs some new materiaL to rip on."

I don't know how else I should have interpreted that. Given the reaction to the poll, I felt a need to express my motivations for creating it. If you're not interested in those motivations, that's fine, though you and others speculated about what they were.

[kick-ass-bob]

11. see post 10.

since you moved it.

[kick-ass-bob]

7. Some "News outlets" don't care if things are scientific or not

since they like to cherry pick things anyways. This sure as hell won't be any different.

[imenja]

8. delete

delete

[kick-ass-bob]

10. I'll tell ya.

Some places don't give a shit if they are showing news that is "fair and balanced."

This just provides fodder in their cannons aimed at LiberaLs.

[imenja]

13. I can't be responsible for the degradation of so-called news

I dont' even watch that stuff. If you want to make DU look good, vote for the first option.

[kick-ass-bob]

14. If you want things to be fair, don't post a biased poll.

that you can be responsible for.

[imenja]

15. Have you ever seen a poll on here, or anywhere, that isn't biased?

Give me a break. 70% of the polls on this site are completely moronic.

[sniffa]

16. how much do you DUers hate america

1) Lots

2) a whoLe bunch

3) totaLLy

4) 110%

[imenja]

18. check out these polls

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3035450

this one includes not time frame: either we will stay forever or we will pull out. Does anyone really think we will be in Iraq until the end of time? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3033553

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1548440

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3032376

and then there are the large number of DUers who can't get past the winter of 2004: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x119629

[sniffa]

20. hardLy the same

in fact, not even cLose.

[kick-ass-bob]

21. You compare a Geraldo poll to this?

no.

[imenja]

23. the abortion poll?

did you have a look at that one? If are an "extreme" abortionist who believes in killing babies until the day they are conceived? without any conception of what existing law actually is?

So don't vote in my poll, it's not compulsory.

[kick-ass-bob]

25. that one at least tries to cover all the bases.

not an either/or.

As much as I'd love to continue, I must go now.

:hi:

[kick-ass-bob]

17. 98.7% of statistics are made up.

Please don't spout made up numbers.

Your poll has specific insinuations that some can use for their own purposes - neither of which are all that good for us, as the opposition.

Pick the one - "See? GWB is great, even the Libs think so.
Pick 2: See? they don't care about people.

Plus, I'm sure some were confused about what you were asking.

[imenja]

19. good lord, it was a generalization, a figure of speech

I would have thought that was beyond obvious.

[kick-ass-bob]

22. what about the rest of my post?

no comment?

[imenja]

24. I've already responded to this

in this thread and on post #50 of the poll thread. I made entirely clear what my motives and reasons behind the poll were there.

[kick-ass-bob]

26. I'm not doubting your intentions,

only the intentions of those who wish to brandish us with the "evil liberal hell-bent on destroying a president at all costs"

[imenja]

27. the poll is simplistic

I realize that. And you raise many pointed criticisms of it. The fact is, however, there are DU members who have a hatred of Bush that colors everything they believe. I dislike Bush a great deal, but because of his policies. I don't hate the policies because Bush is behind them. I have decide to withhold judgment of the elections until more evidence comes in. I will not assume they are fraudulent simply because I oppose Bush and the Iraq War.

People decide the Ukrainian liberal candidate is fraudulent because Bush supported him. Chavez has become a hero after surviving a coup which may have had US involvement. It's amazing what an attempted coup does for someone's popularity.

I see a good deal of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" on here. Obviously there are lots of very smart, well-reasoned people on this site, but there are also those whose primary motivation seems to be hatred. It's frankly been a source of great disillusionment for me.
I always thought that kind of hatred and absence of critical thought was found only on the right. Sadly, I've discovered I'm wrong.

[imenja]

12. question

the poll isn't meant to measure likely outcome, but I am curious: what do you think will happen, if not chaos?