I want to talk about bloodlines

[CatWoman]

I know that in ancient Egypt, as well as Macedonia, siblings married each other.

The same is true for European royalty.

Which brings us to the present.

I've read a lot about cousins marrying each other.

Isn't that dangerous?

[HawkerHurricane]

1. Yes

increases the possibilities of a whole lot of genetic disorders.

Odds of a genetic disorder are 1 out of 4 for siblings...

1 out of 64 for 1st cousins.

[T Bone]

2. Dangerous in that it may start a regional bashing thread here

if past experience is any guide...

[Maple]

3. European royalty

never married siblings.

Cousins yes.

Einstein married his first cousin.

[CatWoman]

5. You're right, Maple

they didn't marry their siblings.

But a lot of them were awfully closely related.

On edit: I did'nt know that about Einstein!!!

[Maple]

6. Yeah they were

the royals are very interbred.

And things like hemophilia run rampant because of it.

[ozymandius]

4. Yes. Horrible things can happen.

Genetic diseases can cripple a population that does not have genetic variation. The world is frought with them.

[GOPisEvil]

7. Wasn't there a recent study discounting the dangers of this?

If I weren't so damned lazy, I'd look it up! :P

[CatWoman]

11. well, it takes a lot of energy

to lug that package around all day :P

[GOPisEvil]

13. Don't I know it!

Whew!

[spinbaby]

8. I seem to remember reading...

...recently that someone had studied the matter and that cousins marrying was less dangerous than previously thought. That said, I know a man who's the product of a marriage of first cousins and he's just plain weird.

[CatWoman]

12. my mother's sister married my father's brother

and my cousins look nothing at all like us.

weird.

[smallprint]

16. there was a NYTimes article a while ago

it said that it was not very dangerous. But I don't think they mentioned the situation in royal families, where the cousins are already related to each other through multiple ancestors...

[Bunny]

27. Ha Ha!

My mother's grandparents were first cousins. She has blamed them for every mishap and bad thing that has occurred in our family, although I don't think we have any greater incidence of problems than any other family. :)

[Ilsa]

9. There are riskier propsitions.

One in 64 isn't too bad. Risk for Down's and other syndromes related to Advanced Maternal Age is higher.

But the further out of your family you marry, the better as far as varying your progeny's gene pool.

[even]

10. In 1900.

The royal families of Russia,Germany and England were all cousins. Why do you think the Czar's son had hemophilia?

World War I was an extended family feud. 10 million or more died.

Big Bill Haywood head of the IWW said,"There is a worker at both ends of the bayonet"
I could go on but I tend to bore.

[jenm]

14. a neighbor and I were talking

discussing the population control measures taken in the PRC, and according to my neighbor, they went overboard and killed too many girls, so now have to import females to promote breeding. The one-child per family rule has now given way to one child per couple, two children per person. It occurs to me that if this is true, and I haven't researched it, China's looking to diversify the gene pool with this latest stragegy.

[Maple]

15. Both India and China

have more males than females because of that custom.

It will lower their population considerably in the next generation.

[Solly Mack]

17. Discover Magazine from August on marrying your cousin

A glance at the August issue of "Discover": Why it's probably OK
to marry your cousin


Most Americans believe that marriages between cousins are
abnormal and produce children with birth defects, writes Richard
Conniff, a contributor to the magazine. However, a recent study
shows that cousin marriages are not significantly riskier than
any other type of marriage, he says.

Marriages between first cousins "entail roughly the same
increased risk of abnormality that a woman undertakes when she
gives birth at 41 rather than at 30," Mr. Conniff writes, citing
a study by Robin L. Bennett, a genetic counselor at the
University of Washington at Seattle.

While excessive inbreeding can lead to the greater expression of
recessive genes associated with diseases like cystic fibrosis
and sickle-cell anemia, moderate inbreeding can have biological
benefits, Mr. Conniff says, because advantageous genes are
passed on, too. For example, among animal populations,
"generations of inbreeding" often lead to the development of
gene complexes that tend to be inherited together and that may
confer special adaptations to a local environment, like
resistance to disease, he writes.

There are also social benefits, he says, observing that dynastic
families such as the Rothschilds and the du Ponts have
traditionally used inbreeding as a way to preserve wealth and
"consolidate power."

Yet while many people "are perfectly comfortable with the idea
that inbreeding can produce genetic benefits for domesticated
animals," they still shudder at the idea of intermarriage
between human cousins, Mr. Conniff writes. In the United States,
he notes, first-cousin marriages are outlawed in 31 states. No
one is advocating intermarriage, but perhaps it's time for
Americans to "moderate automatic disdain for it," he
concludes.

[smallprint]

19. uh-oh

Once you start talking about Rothschilds and du Ponts, you are getting into Illuminati conspiracy theory territory...

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[happyslug]

20. Someone here had an article on Iraq and Cousin getting Married.

And that it is quite common over there (and one of the reasons we are having so much problems. If someone betrays a family member, he is probably getting BOTH sides of his family mad at him or her. Cousin marrying produces very close knit and closed knitted clans.)

The article went out the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages used its influence to break the habit of marrying cousins in Europe. The church thought it promoted clan consciences over conscienceness for the rest of mankind (The Catholic Church viewed itself as the "universal Church" and as such opposed favoring one nationality or group over another, a tradition it still maintains in face of the Growth of Nationalism in the last 200 years).

Now, the genetic problem of Cousin marrying was NOT addressed in that article, but 1 in 64 does not sound bad, but is 1 in 64 a product of centuries of NOT permitting cousin to marry? (i.e. would the statistic drop if marrying cousins become the norm? Instead of the rarity it has been in Western Cultures for the last 1000 years?). In effect it may NOT be harmful for cousins to marry occasionally but the harm MAY increase if it became the rule as opposed to the exception it is now.

And remember the social implication, can you afford to divorce your spouse if your spouse is also your cousin? Most people in times of crisis fall back on their family, but when cousins marry both may be falling back on the SAME family for the same crisis. Thus cousins marrying would force more people to abandon the best form of support most people have (their Family) OR stay in the relationship long after it is not good for either partners in the marriage.

Just thoughts on Cousins marrying, I generally oppose it for the above, but it is a general opposition with exceptions depending on the circumstances of the couple who are getting married.

[HawkerHurricane]

21. The odds get worse...

as more 1st cousins marry. The children of 1st cousin marraiges would have worse odds if they married thier first cousins...but I think 1 in 4 is as bad as it can get...

[liberalnurse]

18. Have you ever seen the movie Deliverance?

Did ya see the toothless, scrawney hicks? Thats what ya get.....

The banjo players.....

[happyslug]

22. Toothless Scrawney Hicks?

Most people I meet who are toothless is because of lack of access to a Dentist NOT inbreeding. As to Scrawny, mostly women who want to be thinner than God Intended them to be (i.e the Super-models, sorry women God intended you to have some muscles, not as much as a man but some and muscle weigh more than fat).

[rasputin1952]

23. Seems like something I wouldn't try myself...

Many years a go, I recall a study where 1st cousins had a pretty high rate of births that resulted in different forms of genetic disabilities.

For me, it would not be worth the risk to bring into this world a seriously disabled child. I also find moral reasons, (strictly personal), for not producing children by relatives.

As an aside, in the medical world of cats, I read recently that 6 toed cats were prevalent among inbreds.

:hi:

[cosmicdot]

24. FDR and Eleanor were 5th cousins once removed

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/fdrerr58.html

[Nikia]

25. It depends

Genetetic defects arise because genetic defects are inherited. They rarely spring up randomly. If you have a good knowledge of your ancestory's medical history and people had genetic disorders, do not marry your cousin if you plan to have children. If there have not been genetic disorders, there will probably not be genetic disorders in your children.

[Rowdyboy]

26. Spanish and Portugese royal families inbred

horrifically. Aunts married nephews, neices married uncles and the resulting children were sad and terribly damaged. Not a good idea.

on edit: My grandmother and two of her brothers married three siblings of another family. We have "double first cousins" all over the place.

[Spider Jerusalem]

28. The Hapsburgs conducted a centuries-long experiment in inbreeding.

For the best argument of why cousins oughtn't to marry, take a look at Carlos II ("the bewitched") of Spain. He had such a tremendously pronounced case of the infamous "Hapsburg jaw" that he couldn't even chew his own food.

[Skittles]

29. there are billions of people in this world

someone has to choose their own f***ing cousin? Please. Branch out that familiy tree a bit, por favor!

[Rowdyboy]

30. None of my cousins did anything for me...

I didn't even like them, why would I mate with them?