I need help understanding Catholic guilt.

[foreigncorrespondent]

That is the kind of Catholic guilt a child would feel for its mother in regards to leaving the roost etc.

I have been searching the Web trying to find anything about this subject, so I could begin to understand it, but there is really nothing out there. So I am asking all our Catholic DUers, if they could offer me some kind of insight.

I wasn't raised Catholic, but rather rasied in a Church of Christ household. I have had lots of Catholic freinds over the years, and in fact remain very close to one which I have asked this question to. Unfortunately that friend is sick and won't be in any real state to explain anything to me for a few days.

Please help me understand this Catholic guilt that kids grow up with towards their parents, and leaving the home, and having a life of their own.

Thank you,

FC

[greatauntoftriplets]

1. I was raised Catholic and do not understand Catholic guilt.

Have fought it all my life.

[soothsayer]

2. Oh, we have guilt about EVERYTHING. You name it, we feel guilty.

Not even sure how it gets instilled, but it's an awful lot like Jewish guilt, so maybe you can find that on the web.

[JohnKleeb]

3. Well FC you know I am Catholic not that devout but consider myself one

I dont know what Catholic guilt is honest. My grandparents on both sides were devout Catholics and democrats. My parents arent that religious and really I am not, well I kind of am. Actually I really a person who is private in faith.

[kanrok]

4. It's interesting that you posted this today

I am a Catholic. Today, at mass, the sermon dealt with marriage and family. The priest stressed the fact that we are taught to leave our mother and father and start a family of our own. No guilt implied or inferred there from my perspective. Maybe more specific information about your impressions would help.

[foreigncorrespondent]

6. I would like to...

...explain myself better, but I really can't.

The best I can give you is what I have posted above. And about how some kids (now adults) raised Catholic feel they have a moral and ethical obligation to take care of the parent/s until their death, hence forgetting that they too are intitled to a life.

[JohnKleeb]

9. oh thats what that is

Well my dad does that with my nana and his sister more so. He did it because he was out of a job but he still has fun and a life :).

[foreigncorrespondent]

13. But what should one do...

...if they know someone who is willing to risk losing their whole life because of this moral and ethical obligation they have towards their parent/s?

[JohnKleeb]

17. My nana is 90 FC hard to believe that being how old I am

She lost her memory like 5 years ago and my oldest aunt had been taking care of her. What should one too? I cant help you with that because Ive yet to experience that.

[SWPAdem]

18. I think I know where you are coming from on this

I'm in a similar position, neglecting my husband while trying to care for an elderly parent a few hundred miles away. Is your friend an only child ? This is not really "Catholic" guilt, but a very complicated issue.

[foreigncorrespondent]

21. Not an only child.

There are three children (all girls) and the yongest is the one taking care of the parent, while the other two have their own lives.

[liberalnurse]

5. Maybe this is it....

Saul was a Jew during the crucifixion of Christ.... Saul changed his name to Paul and went to Rome, carrying all that guilt...founded the Church of Rome, guilt was part of the deal.

[foreigncorrespondent]

8. That is a really interesting thought.

I will defenately have to give that some thought.

[liberalnurse]

11. That was obvious the short version.....

I believe Paul set the foundation. Thats why we adore Mary too. Her sacrifice as the Holy Mother.

[Gman]

7. I think it can be summed up by

the statement that there should be no pleasure on earth but you will be rewarded with pleasures in heaven. If you have pleasure on earth, you're likely sinning.

As for the parents thing, I'm not not real sure about it except that usually Catholic parents are so dominant and controlling so that their kids will be good Catholics doing penance and in general not experiencing pleasures on earth. This probably causes in general feelings of guilt and probably codependency if a Catholic child thinks he/she is doing something that will not meet their parents' expectations.

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. Gman, thank you.

You have really given me something to think about.

What you are saying truly makes so much sense to me. Especially this part: This probably causes in general feelings of guilt and probably codependency if a Catholic child thinks he/she is doing something that will not meet their parents' expectations.

That is basically what I am trying to touch upon, and trying to understand.

[piece sine]

12. the concept is over-blown...

Millions of ex-Catholics walk away from the Mother Church every year with no leftover residue whatsoever. Catholic guilty only works on the so-called "faithful;" the ones who keep coming back for more.

[foreigncorrespondent]

14. Oh, but what if you...

...if you knew of someone who was raised Catholic. Lived in a very Catholic household, turned their back on the Catholic faith years ago, but still feels this Catholic guilt at every turn. And to the point of destroying their own life in the process?

[Booberdawg]

15. I'm not Catholic but I have heard this discussed by other Catholics

My sense of what they described was an indoctrination beginning in their early years of how they "should" and "shouldn't" feel or see things. Very much a sense that if you didn't see or feel this way about things that "there must be something wrong with you" and then there is subsequent guilt and shame associated with it.

It's been a while and maybe I've lost something in the translation but that is the recollection I have and I recall that it has a profound affect on some.

[foreigncorrespondent]

16. Booberdawg...

...I don't think you have lost anything in the translation hon. What you are saying makes sense to me, and fits in to why I need to know all about this stuff.

[Booberdawg]

27. I just mentioned this in another thread a couple days ago

about the word "should". The thread topic was should we treat rush's weakness with compassion.

"Should" is a buzz word to me that always raises a red flag. It implies that I don't have a choice, and that there are guilt and shame consequences associated with it. I reject the notion that there is ever a situation in which I don't have a choice. Sometimes the options available aren't so great but you can still make a choice from what is available or choose to do nothing at all. And, one always has the freedom to willfully make a bad choice as well.

The CAL theory might useful here too. The CAL theory boils down to three choices - Change it, Accept it, Or Leave.

I think I understand the situation here so I hope this helps you out.

[greatauntoftriplets]

20. Very well put, Booberdawg.

Great perspective from the neutral sidelines.

I've refused to feel that way. Not easy, but it works if you put your mind to it.

[even]

19. Could it be?

That there is all kinds of GUILT and Catholic is just a brand name.

I know that Jews speak of GUILT too. Maybe GUILT is like a horse that is broken so institutions can ride. That Flanders guy on the Simpsons was like that.

I don't know,sorry if I have interfered.

[Solly Mack]

22. An example of Catholic guilt

My friend, who had not been attending church for several weeks, could not even drive by the lone Catholic church in town because she "felt like the church was staring ar her" as she tooled by


At the time, she was expressing her doubts as to whether she was still a Catholic or not...after she made the above comment, we all assured her she was...

[Waistdeep]

23. Think of it this way

Catholic guilt is just like Jewish guilt, but with a lot more renaissance art.

[LuLu550]

24. it's simple..

if it feels good, then it is bad and you should feel guilty and indulge in self-lothing for the rest of your life...what's not to understand? :shrug:

[foreigncorrespondent]

25. Simple...

what's not to understand?

Why someone who is perfectly happy in their adult life with the relationship they have, would want to throw it all away because of something that has come from a chuch which they haven't been part of for a long time.

[LuLu550]

26. old habits die hard

it's so ingrained in you when you are young. I was brought up Catholic and I quit...
the person to whom you refer has a choice to make...believe in a God that is angry and punishes or believe in a God of goodness...
I chose to belive in the latter. But you can't make that decision for someone else.

[carpetbagger]

28. Leaving-the-nest guilt is specific to ethnicity.

most of the big Catholic ethnic groups have it, but it's more a cultural thing IMO rather than a religious thing (e.g. sexual guilt and other assorted guilt issues). It's present, but different, in Italian, Irish and Latino families. I don't think it's real prominent in central European families (and I'm speaking of ethnic Americans from all these groups).

[foreigncorrespondent]

29. I want to thank everyone...

...for trying to help me to understand this.

I thought I had a vague idea of what it was all about, but I was dead wrong with my own thoughts. Now the person in question isn't talking to me, so I have no idea if what I am saying to the person is making the slightest bit of sense or not. I am playing in the dark here with something I really know nothing about, and probably will never understand.

Booberdawg I like your CAL theory, and I think you might be on the right track when you say, you think you know what this is all about. All I can say is, I have tried to change it, tried to accept it, and the only one I have left is to leave it.

Thank you, again, everyone.

FC

[sandnsea]

30. I'm Catholic, I must have missed guilt

Never understood what people were talking about. Catholocism teaches morality. It also teaches human frailty. That's why we have confession.

As to caring for aging parents, that's family, not guilt. Unless you're raised by wacky parents who load it on you and then that's a parenting issue. There's domineering parents in every relgion, and outside of them too.

[VeniceBeat]

31. Good Novel with the Same Theme:

"Final Payments" by Mary Gordon

After eleven years of devotion to her father, Isabel Moore suddenly finds herself with what most of us dream of: a chance to create a totally new existence. Witty, brave, intelligent, and passionate, she sets out to conquer the world. She is supported by the loving encouragement of two old school friends, rapidly becomes involved with two men -- and then discovers that before she can grasp the present she must make her final payments to the past.

It's on Amazon.

I read it years ago in a Women's Lit class at UCLA. As a lapsed Catholic living 3000 miles from my family, I found it very interesting.

Gordon's a good prose stylist, too.

[foreigncorrespondent]

32. Thank you, VB.

I will be sure to look the book up. :)

[emad]

33. Guilt is to Catholicism what aviation fuel is to aeroplanes.....

without it, no patriarchal neurosis with its supporting cast of thousands, all blaming Mary Madgalene's supposed whoring, or Judas Iscariot's grassing up of JC.....or Pontius Pilot's cop out....or Simon Peter's denial. ...or etc etc etc

Catholics thrive on setting up family guilt because it re inforces control and stops the next generation erring/wandering/converting to some other patriarchal cult.

It's just an emotional racket.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

34. I don't know if this applies to your situation

or would even help, but I have experienced and observed situations where there is conflict and conflicted loyalties between a nuclear family or potential nuclear family (a boyfriend and girlfriend) and one of the extended families. And it is usually more healthy to give your loyalties first to the nuclear family as a united front and then try to solve the extended family problem. Sometimes that hampers solving the extended family problem, but that is the price you pay if a person have to decide between their mate and their parents and/or siblings.

If you are her mate, she owes loyalty to you first and has to set up boundaries with them that will preserve your relationship.

This is from experience with an ethnic Catholic/Fundamentalist family and a set of in-laws that has a fetish about "togetherness." They think their grown kids have to move heaven and earth to live near them, even though they are perfectly healthy, and that it is selfish to have our own lives!