Anybody ever use Microsoft Front Page to do a web site? Or any

[joeybee12]

other software that's out there? Did you like it? Would you recommend it?

Thanks!

[kick-ass-bob]

1. If it is still the same as it has been

I would say no. Because it will throw in a lot of unnecessary code and some MS specific stuff that could lock users like me out (Firefox).

I always just coded, so I used programs that helped me with the actual code, not a WYSIWYG one.

[AllegroRondo]

2. Hate it

Frontpage loads up your code with a lot of unecessary garbage.

The great thing about html is that any text editor can write it, and any viewer can read it. Get a book on basic html editing, it will really help. If you see a web page you like and want to emulate, just click 'view -> source' and you can see how they wrote it.

[no name no slogan]

3. NO!!!!!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!

Speaking as somebody who started with FP97 "back in the day": AVOID FrontPage like the plague!!!!

I'm a web professional type (been at it for seven years), and FP is one of the worst tools you can use to build a web site.

For one thing, it likes to spit out non-standard MS-proprietary HTML. For another, it will mangle any "custom" HTML you try to insert into a page (even after they supposedly "fixed" this with FP2000, it still does it).

Second, it uses its own 'extensions' to do any kind of server-side processing. These extensions are not always supported by ISPs, so you may end up redoing them.

If you're really interested in building web sites, go with Dreamweaver. It's a little more complicated than FP, but the results are portable, and it does a much better job with standards.

Or, if you're a Luddite like me, use an HTML editor like HomeSite. It's a little extra work, but you have ultimate control over the code.

But please, AVOID FRONTPAGE LIKE THE PLAGUE! You'll be thankful later!

[deek]

4. from langalist:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
**NOTE: I have no personal experience with this subject. Just thought I'd pass this info onto you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.langa.com/newsletters/2005/2005-02-03.htm

Free HTML Editor

Fred, searching for a freeware WYSIWYG HTML editor seems to be a lifetime occupation with me. Tried 'em all.

THEN I find this one which looks, after a wee bit of playing-with-it, fantastic.

http://www.nvu.com/index.html

--Ken Laninga

Thanks, Ken, Nvu (pronounced "en-view") is causing a bit of buzz: It's open source (IOW, free) and available for Windows, Mac, and Linux.

Definitely worth a look!

[Sentath]

9. Might be worth a look

I like the idea of having a WYSIWYG do forms.

But, you will still want to have http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/#minitoc handy to customize things to your liking.

I firmly believe that no automated tool will ever do things just the way I want them done ( :

[Renew Deal]

23. I get that newsletter.

That guy really knows his shit.

[asthmaticeog]

5. If you can, um, "obtain" a copy of Dreamweaver, use that.

Do NOT use Front Page. It's even worse than Adobe's notoriously crappy PageMill package from the '90s. Dreamweaver's outstanding. The only drawback is getting earwormed with that damn Gary Wright song every time you open it.

[no name no slogan]

7. Aw jeebus, two days in a row with that damn song

WHY the hell'd you have to pull that one out? I was looking at vintage synth gear on eBay yesterday and stumbled on an ARP Solina string machine. The lister said it was used on "Dreamweaver". So I got that freaking earworm yesterday.

And then you mentioned the earworm. DAMMIT. This is worse than when I came down with the "Video Killed the Radio Star" earworm last month. That lasted TWO WEEKS. I ended up getting the flipping CD so I could get rid of it. AARRRGGHHGHGHGH!!!!! I don't even LIKE Gary Wright!!!!!

[asthmaticeog]

11. I hate the song too, and I get it EVERY TIME I work on a web page.

More importantly, are you getting the ARP? That's probably a cool synth! I used to have a beat-ass old ARP Odyssey way back when.

[no name no slogan]

38. I decided against it

I already own a Crumar Performer, which is the cheap Italian copy of the ARP Solina. Right now I'm saving up for a Roland Jazz Chorus JC-120 amp. I've always wanted one but could never afford it, it seems. Now that I'm grown up and there's more on the secondary market, I'll probably end up getting one eventually.

Oh well, at least when I'm dealing with Stellent I don't get those bloody earworms :o

[kick-ass-bob]

8. FARK!

Ooh dream weaver
I believe you can get me through the night
Ooh dream weaver
I believe we can reach the morning light
Fly me high through the starry skies
Maybe to an astral plane
Cross the highways of fantasy
Help me to forget todays pain

[KurtNYC]

14. Now it got me too

the outro:

Dreeeeeeeeam weavah (echo) weavah weavah.....
(seagull like synthesizer sound)

[Beware the Beast Man]

6. HTML is very easy to learn.

I've heard bad things about HTML editors, so if you learn some basic HTML stuff, you should be set.

[CatBoreal]

10. GET THEE DREAMWEAVER!

I started developping sites with Netscape Composer (believe it or not) and switched to Dreamweaver 6 years ago and never looked back. It's easy to learn, expandable, doesn't add a ton of useless crap like FP.

Even better, get the suite which integrates Flash and Fireworks (a great image editor) along with FreeHand and ColdFusion so that you can cover all the bases when it comes to development.

MS FrontPage, get thee behind me!

[fit4life]

12. 2nd the motion

I've used Frontpage in the past, but since I got the Macromedia Suite I haven't even thought about Frontpage. Flash & Fireworks are great, although I still like Photoshop & Paint Shop Pro for graphics editing. I haven't used Freehand much, and I don't have ColdFusion (although I desperately want it!).

Basically all Dreamweaver is for me is a shortcut on HTML instead of coding it all by hand. When you're using a lot of Javascript or PHP functions it can be a great timesaver.

[KurtNYC]

15. FrontPage, get thee to a nunnery!

(actually I wouldn't even wish it on nuns.)

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

24. Netscape Composer - me too!

Before I learned HTML, I used Netscape Composer to make all my websites!!! It came with Netscape, why not? :)

[CatBoreal]

25. Wasn't it HELL????

I remember trying to do frames on that thing....

Dreamweaver saved my sanity.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

29. Yes, lol

I think it was actually more difficult than just sitting down and learning HTML... because for some reason it would always change the font and font color on me. Even though on the page it looked fine... when it was published it always changed. I used to HAVE to use HTML to go back and correct it, and that's how I wound up learning it.

[CatBoreal]

32. And it would add things, or not recognize your code....

*UGGG* One year coding on that thing was more than enough for me.

[all.of.me]

13. FP! Yuck!!

Front Page writes too much unnecessary code. I switched to Dreamweaver, which I love! You can drag and drop everything. It's amazing. You can also clean up html from pages made in FP or other html editors. Dreamweaver is a breeze! I also joined a Yahoo group for DW newbies, and they are very supportive. I ask the dumbest questions, but these folks help out every time.

Good luck!

[joeybee12]

16. I guess it's NO to Frontpage! Thanks! And Dreamweaver was a theme

of one of my high school dances!

I believe you can get me through the night!!!!!!!!!

[bobbobbins]

17. I use EditPlus...its not a WYSIWYG app

its just a really nice text editor that i use for all my web design and programming.

[bif]

18. Adobe GoLive

Easy as hell to learn.

[NewHampshireDem]

19. I recommend GoLive as well ...

And if you are a student you can get an educational license for a greatly reduced price if you poke around.

GoLive is easy to learn but very, very powerful. It can be a little overwhelming to start with, but once you do a little coding you'll catch on to how it works pretty quickly.

[Orsino]

20. Not twice, I'll bet. n/t

[ghostsofgiants]

21. I use Macromedia's Dreamweaver MX 2004 myself.

Frontpage is awful. Dreamweaver is awesome, as is Adobe's GoLive.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

22. Buy Macromedia Contribute.

Easiest Build and edit with plenty of quality that I've ever seen!

I think you can get a free 30 day trial at the Macromedia website and it's only $79.00 for a license.

[CatBoreal]

27. Contribute is for editing sites that have already been completed...

it's not an editor per se. You can't create a new page using it, just update text and images.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. Wrong.

Using the templates you can create one easily. I've done it. Start with a bare template and go to town easily and quickly.

You have not explored the full Contribute.

[CatBoreal]

31. Right... sorry, forgot about the template feature....

But can you create your own templates on it?

I didn't think so.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

33. Basically all you have to do is once you have the page up delete

everything in it and start fresh. Insert tables, flash, whatever.

They don't advertise it because it might cut into the Dreamweaver sales.

I use Dreamweaver for a few things, but when I want something quick, down and dirty, I'll use Contribute. You can also use the copy function to grab a page from another site you have access to and change it however you want. It'll grab the Php and everything else.

[joeybee12]

26. Thanks everyone!!!!!!!!!!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

28. I always code it myself

I feel that way I have more control and it's easier to edit. Might not be the fanciest websites on the web, but my various sites all work (keeping fingers crossed on that!:) )

[sendero]

34. Me too..

... I've built a boat load of web sites. I've never tried FP, I didn't have to, if it is MS, it is shit. :)

I have used Dreamweaver, and it is a nice program. But all in all, I prefer just coding the page in simple HTML.

When you do that, you never get stuck with the limitations of the tool you are using. And they all have limitations. There will be a point where you want to do something, and you just cannot get the tool to do it.

If, for example, you build a page with Dreamweaver, you are pretty much stuck with it. It creates code that is near impossible to read/edit. If you go and clean it up, DW will destroy all your formatting the first time you make a change using it.

HTML is simple. The only part that takes any time to understand at all are TABLES, and of course you will be using TABLES extensively whether you think so now or not :)

If you are building a site that you are going to code up once and pretty much leave alone, use a high-level tool like Dreamweaver. If you are going for constant improvement and enhancement, go ahead and learn HTML. It really isn't that hard.

[no name no slogan]

39. Luddites UNITE!

I went fully over to hand-coding when I started getting heavily into CSS about five years ago.

Back then, Dreamweaver could not render CSS <div> layers properly in layout mode. Plus it often bulked up the CSS because it long-handed everything, and didn't use 'shortcuts' for various elements (for example: "border-width:1px; border-style:solid; border-color:#000000;" instead of "border:1px solid #000;"). Also, it didn't do a very good job with ADA/W3C accessiblity issues, either.

When doing CSS layouts, it was just easier to use a text editor and a few browser windows to check how things looked-- very 1996 in many ways.

I'm on Windows, so I usually use HomeSite or the free HTML-kit package. Even when doing it by hand, I can create a full site using a text editor and HTML faster than I can with any WYSIWYG tool. And it's also smaller and loads faster, too.

[Schema Thing]

35. This whole "web" thing is just a fad. I wouldn't recommend

spending time, energy, or money on anything "web" related. Plastics, that's where it's at. Get yourself some kind of beginners plastic forming tools and let your creativity take you places!

[miss_kitty]

36. Vac U Form!

:P

[Schema Thing]

37. Now that's what I'm talkin' about!