Since we're talking about black quarterbacks. . .

[JAbuchan08]

I was thinking about Michael Vick (who is obviously _not_ overrated) and was thinking how his rushing game is beyond anything that any quarterback has ever achieved, so...

If you were to compare his passing ability to anyone who would it be (quarterbacks)?

who would you compare him to as far as running backs are concerned (since, as I said, he is obviously far better than any quarterback has ever been at rushing the ball)?

[Superfly]

1. Running game?

Isn't his leg still broken?

[JAbuchan08]

3. Well, yeah, but. . .

We still have last season to make a judgement on this question. Personally I would compare his arm strength to a John Elway or a Brett Favre (both scramblers) and I would compare his rushing ability to someone with wide reciever speed - maybe an Isaac Bruce or a Randy Moss, but with a running backs vision - maybe a Marshall Faulk type. Then again, maybe there's no comparisons to be made. I guess Vick pretty much defies description.

[Mistress Quickly]

2. Aren't they saying he'll be out 4 more weeks still?

Gosh, ATL needs him back in the line-up!

[SEAburb]

4. how about Eric Dickerson /nt

[VermontDem2004]

5. He has a strong arm

He can throw the ball 70 yards or more, based on that he has the Elway arm. But good decision making ability seperates the good quarterbacks from the talented quarterbacks. We will have to wait and see how good he will be in the near future, after all he did lead the Falcons to the Playoffs and become the first QB to win a playoff game @ Green Bay.

Let me add before Rush made those comments I never looked at Donovan or Michael Vick as a "black" quarterback, I just looked at them as very talented Quarterbacks.

[GumboYaYa]

6. He reminds me a little of Fran Tarkenton,

particularly the ability to stop in mid run and toss the ball down field.

[VermontDem2004]

7. Elway can do that

Say what you want but Plummer can do that very well, he can also throw a ball accurately on the run running to his left side(he is right handed).

[GumboYaYa]

8. Plummer has been impressive this year.

He was also very good early in his career. I've heard that playing for Bidwell can suck the joy out of football. Denver may be the best thing that ever happened to Plummer.

I agree that Elway can scramble and throw down field on a dime as well.

[VermontDem2004]

9. Yeah it can

So many Ex-Cardinals are having great careers for other teams. Simeon Rice, David Boston(yesturday 14 catches, 181 yards, 2 touchdowns), Garrison Hearst, Aneas Williams, Jamir Miller, Michael Pittman did well in the Super Bowl, and there are so many more players that I could name.

[Fight_n_back]

10. No it isn't

Vick is extremely similiar in terms of rushing to many QBs who have preceeded him (Randall Cunningham, Bobby Douglas, Steve Young, Marlon Briscoe).

He is already better than Bobby Douglas and is on his way to being as good as Randall Cunningham. The question is will he someday be as good as Steve Young?

Only time will tell.


Steve McNair, on the otherhand, is abso fucking lootly amazing.

[VermontDem2004]

11. I think Vick

could be the greatest QB ever, but that is an if. He done great things in only his second season of his career, it was his first full year as the starter.

[Fight_n_back]

13. but so could

Chad Pennington or Patrick Ramsey or any young QB. Nobody expected Johnny Unitas to do what he did. You can't know how great he is till the second half of his career. Some QBs never get a second half.

[VermontDem2004]

14. That is why I put an 'if'

I didn't say he will be the greatest. Anyone can be the greatest.

[northzax]

12. hmm. he had a good year

but let's not go putting him in the pantheon yet. frankly, there are plenty of insanely talented young men out there, the differences between them lie in the head. and that question won't be answered until we see how vick recovers from his current situation.

by the way, being the best running quarterback ever is not neccesarily a blessing. there is a reason why there aren't a whole lot of 30 year old running backs in the game, while there are quite a few quarterbacks in that category: running the ball gets you hammered. often. sure, Young, Elway and Favre were great scramblers, (so's McNabb) but they all learned early that quarterbacks shouldn't be running all that much. it's good for a short term fix, and a nice option to have, but it's also a damn good way to shorten your career and hurt the club quickly. think the Falcons would rather have a less mobile Vick that Rob Johnson around right now?

give me a running quarterback in any given week for my fantasy team. give me someone who can get rid of the ball to a receiver or running back and let them take the hit (leftwitch, McNabb, Ramsey) for my season.

on edit: how could I forget McNair? if Vick has the heart and pain threshold of McNair, he might just make it. otherwise, he better learn to avoid hits better.

[VermontDem2004]

15. Standing in the pocket will get you hammered

You will get hammered week and week out if you are a QB in the National Football League, plus he has amazing arm strength and accuarcy, he is not just a running QB. He can make great plays running the ball and great plays throwing the ball, I did watch games Michael Vick played in and even though the Falcons were 0-2 to start the season, I knew they would make the playoffs with him as the QB. I would take Vick for the season if given the opportunity, the Falcons know he has the potential to be a great QB or they wouldn't of used their first overall pick on him.

edit: Why would you use a rookie QB for the whole season? I know Leftwich is good but unless he hasn't played a whole year how can you be so sure he is reliable enough to put up the stats you need?

[northzax]

17. and there, my friend, is the key word

potential. Vick has the potential to join the greats, but potential and 1.87 will buy you a large coffee at cosi.

as for using a first pick on someone...quick name the last ten first picks in the draft. how many of them are still in the league? how many made the pro-bowl? how many will make it to Canton?

someone has to be the first pick, it's no guarantee of greatness...

[Fight_n_back]

19. First Picks

Have a higher degree of success than any other pick.

[VermontDem2004]

20. So why would you be so willing

to use a rookie and a second year QB to lead your fantasy team for the season if Vick ain't the guy? Both of those QB's haven't accomplished anything yet and they still have yes "potential".
Name the first 10 picks of the draft? That's easy

1. Carson Palmer (he hasn't played yet)
2. Charles Rogers (He is having a solid rookie season)
3. Andre Johnson (same thing about Rogers)
4. Dewayne Robertson (have no idea how he is doing)
5. Terrance Newman (Is having a great rookie season so far)
6. Jonathan Sullivan (See #4)
7. Byron Leftwich (He is doing somewhat good but we will have to wait and see how he does later in his career, plus I wanted my Cards to draft him)
8. Jordan Gross (See #4)
9. Kevin Williams
10. Terrell Suggs (Former ASU play who is having the best rookie year for a defender so far.)

edit: let me add, Rob Johnson is not the QB playing for the Falcons, the QB is Doug Johnson.

Whoops, I misread you post.

2003: Carson Palmer, to early to tell, but I did not think he was the best QB going into the draft.
2002: David Carr, is having great success with the Texans
2001: Michael Vick, is having great success with the Falcons
2000: Courtney Brown, 15 sacks in 37 games, I guess it could be better
1999: Tim Couch, perhaps you missed last nights game
1998: Peyton Manning, do I explain why he is great?
1997: Orlando Pace, a solid lineman for the Rams.
1996: Keyshawn Johnson, a great WR also having great success with the Bucs
1995: Ki-Jana Carter, have no idea where he is.
1994: Dan Wilkerson, have no idea where he is.
1993: Drew Bledsoe, do I have to explain why he is great?

2 out of 10 players were basically flops

3 of 10 is a we will have to wait and see.

7 of 10 are basically solid players.

[Fight_n_back]

16. Bill Walsh

it would be fair to say, knows something about the QB position.

He says the most important physical abilities for a QB are escapability and accuracy.

Joe Montanta
Steve Young
Jeff Garcia

[VermontDem2004]

18. I agree

With that, you must be able to make plays when the pocket breaks down to be a great QB.

[northzax]

21. right.

and what was the longest run of Joe Montana's Hall of Fame career? (53 yards, in case you were wondering. he had his highest total ever in that game as well, 63 yards, against the Giants, December 29. 1984) and that was the playoffs. in the regular season, he never had a run longer than 21 yards. his lifetime average? 111.73 yards/SEASON. and that ignores his entire injury season. he could elude, but he didn't run.

Steve Young? average anyone? 282 yards/season. elusive? yes. more mobile that montana? yes. able to pick up a key ten yards? yup. serious rushing threat? yup, when he had top flight recievers and a real ground game to distract the defense.

[Wolfman 11]

22. not really related to your question, but...

In a few years this guy has a chance to make a big splash in the NFL. He is a blast to watch.

[Awsi Dooger]

23. Best running QB I ever saw was Freddie Solomon

About 30 years ago at the University of Tampa, which later dropped its football program. If any clips survived and were available, I doubt many of you would disagree.

Yes, the same Freddie Solomon who played WR for the 49ers after being part of the Delvin Williams trade with the Dolphins. In college and prior to a knee injury suffered early with the Dolphins, Fast Freddie Solomon was an absolute blur.

He would drob back with the pretense of a pass, but was really giving himself room to dart, dash and zig upfield. There were several plays each game that resembled a Dante Hall kick return. Solomon ran 80 yards for a TD vs. Miami in a game Tampa nearly upset the 'Canes, who were unbeaten and ranked at the time.

I have seen every 'Canes game since the late '60s, and Freddie Solomon was easily the most elusive rushing threat they have ever faced, including Michael Vick and O.J. Simpson. He never played QB in the NFL and was not the same after injurying his knee, but the visuals I retain from his Tampa days are beyond scarry.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. Overall, not just pasing or rushing...

Vick reminds me VERY much of Randall Cunningham. If not for injuries, Cunningham probably would've posted some amazing career rushing totals.

[trigz]

25. Which player is the quarterback?

Is it the one that chucks the ball upfield after a scrum? Just asking, I'm European remember ;)