suicide

[rbnyc]

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/samaritans.htm

I just wanted to post this link as the subject of suicide has been coming up lately. I just want people to have this link. Love ya'll.

[Bossy Monkey]

1. You're against it, right? n/t

[rbnyc]

3. Well,

I go back and forth. But seriously, over the past several weeks some DUers have posted about self destructive feelings. I was thinking about it all day. Then I saw a thread title that made kind of a joke about suicide, which I don't mind, but which reminded me that I wanted to share this link.

I surived a suicide attempt and lost an aunt and a lover to suicide. It's so important to ask for help and get tools for dealing with self destructive feelings, and in case there's someone out there tonight who needs the info, I just wanted to post it.

;-)

[no name no slogan]

2. #1 cause of suicide: UNTREATED DEPRESSION

As a suicide survivor and person with a chronic major depressive disorder, I cannot emphasize enough that those of you with suicidal thoughts need to GO SEE A DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY.

Depression is not a character flaw or "weakness", it is a perfectly normal and TREATABLE disorder of the brain, which has a very successful treatment rate.

Also, I believe it's next week or the week after, but National Depression Screening Week is coming up. If you think you may be depressed, or if you're suicidal, PLEASE GET SCREENED. You can get help, and treatment, and live a better life.

You owe it to yourself, and your friends, and family.

http://www.save.org

[rbnyc]

4. Hi.

I'm a survivor too. Thanks for your post. I just wanted to add one thing. I know that some people are reluctant to ask for help because they don't want to be medicated. It's okay to feel that way, and it's okay to tell your doctor that. There are many ways to treat depression. Medication works great for some people. For others there are alternatives, like cognitive behavioral therapy. It is your doctor's job to listen to you.

[Skittles]

6. my dad committed suicide

as well as several other family members. Depression is a dreadful disease.

[rbnyc]

8. so sorry

*big hugs*

:loveya:

[OldEurope]

11. So did mine.

When I was 13, he tried for the first time. And tried again and again, though he had medication and other treatments. At my 18th birthday he told me, he would never forgive me, that I called the emergency and let them put him into a hospital (mother was in hospital for surgery when he started his first attempt). Finally he was "successfull" 15 years later.
One of his doctors told us later, that Dad could never get over his terrible experiences in World War II. At the age of 18 he had to join the German troops in Russia, got injured and imprisoned. He never told us details, but obviously no treatment could help him.

[Skittles]

30. my sympathies

my dad had an ongoing losing struggle also. I remember he was hospitalized for a year when I was 14. It's a very difficult way to grow up. When other kids worried about the Friday night football game, I was sure dad was gonna kill himself and/or all of us.

[Karenina]

33. Hey Skittles, similar story

My dad had been hospitalized, I was younger than you at the time but knew something was up when he tried to strangle me. Somehow, I also knew he "wasn't in his body" and managed to snap him back into the "here and now" at which point he dropped me with this look of horror on his face.
Shortly thereafter he hung himself in the basement.

We kids had come home from school and rushed down the stairs to go play. My mother was screeching and my siblings stopped in their tracks. I, being the "hardheaded" one got to the bottom of the stairs and to this day cannot explain what I saw. That night as I was crying in my bed he came and sat at the foot of it (I FELT THE WEIGHT) asking me to forgive him. It's taken decades, but I do forgive him and understand.

I, to this day, have thoughts of suicide. I've been a super over-achiever, first and only this and that and cannot reconcile what I've accomplished with my current life situation. I've come to accept that it's just time-bound mind working overtime. Also I'd have to get my kids' permission to do so. ;-)

[Booberdawg]

12. Lost a younger brother to suicide as well

He was manic depressive. He did ask for help and because of a change in insurance had to go to a different hospital/Dr. - insurance did not approve his stay. They gave him a script, told him to stay with someone overnight and come back the next day. He went home and hanged himself.

[prolesunited]

13. That's terrible

Did your family pursue the hospital, doctors and insurance companies after that? It seems like they were extremely negligent in letting him leave. I would have sued, not to get monetary damages, but so that they would change the policy and it wouldn't happen again.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[Booberdawg]

17. His regular psychiatrist filed complaints

against the insurance company and the hospital and physician. Because of confidentiality concerns I don't know what came of it, but his regular Dr was just furious about it.

That was over 10 years ago in Feb 93. John was 31. They released him to my other brother with instructions that he was not to be left alone and to bring him back to see the Dr again the next day. The brother they released him to, Randy, is irresponsible and has the maturity of a 6 year old and not a lick of common sense.

John told him to just drop him off at home and Randy said okay fine and did it, and left. Went back to pick him up the next day to take him back to see the Dr. and found him hanging. Was very traumatizing to Randy for many years, to say the least.

Randy attempted to hang himself more than once since then, and 5 years ago nearly succeeded. When I got the call at work that time to come right away he was not expected to live. I saw him in ER - his pupils were fixed and dilated and he was non-responsive. I don't know how he pulled out of it but he did. He's never been the same since.

He's always had mental health problems anyway, but to make a long story short Randy had to be committed for his own safety about a year ago. It's not likely that he will ever be discharged.

[Love Bug]

18. OMG, Booberdawg, that's terrible

(((((((((hug)))))))))))

After all of that, how are YOU doing?

[Booberdawg]

20. I am doing well. Thanks for asking.

:D

[geniph]

34. I'm also a survivor

chronic suicidal depression for 40+ years. I'm still here. If I can do it, anybody can. I say that without being in the least flippant.

If anyone ever wants to talk about serious depression and how to cope with continuing to live with it, I'm here, and I understand. Boy, do I ever. And there IS a light at the end of the tunnel. I don't THINK it's an oncoming train, at least not most days...(I've been mostly in remission for about three years - and it's amazing to be able to have bad things happen and not immediately think of suicide. Almost like having normal mental health or something.)

[Droopy]

5. well said no name

i've been there, too. The help that I got inspired me so much that I decided to go back to school at the of 30 to become a psychologist.

[rbnyc]

7. wow

that's amazing.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

9. Actually, you are partly right... most attempts occur due to

untreated depression.

Most successful suicides occur after a patient has been treated a short time and is not followed up on by a professional. They start feeling better and more active, but are still depressed.

That is the real danger zone.


Been there myself.

[LynneSin]

21. That is so true!!

When I was first battling depression about 2.5 years ago, everytime I talked to a doctor the first question was "Are you having suicidal thoughts".

I mean, I was depressed, but I've never been so depressed in my life that I thought life wasn't worth living anymore. My depression was sorta based on handling too many problems all at once which a year of therapy and prozac helped. However, I thought it was irritating that they kept asking me that question about suicide, but then again, suicide and depression do tend to go hand-in-hand. They were right to ask even if suicide was never ever on my agenda - better to be safe than sorry!

To all my friends here at DU - if you've ever EVER considered suicide please go find some help. Thanks for the great link - who knows, maybe you'll be saving a life or 2 with it!!!!

[DoNotRefill]

10. I'm pro suicide in certain situations...I'm serious...

we should all have the right to decide when to die, and be able to do so with dignity and without pain.

[Kamika]

14. suicide is selfish and mean

I mean it.. its so selfish to take your life, not considering how sad all your friends and family will be. I had a friend, whos brother took his life and that was the most selfish thing ever.


If someone i loved would take his/her own life id hate them for that.

[OldEurope]

15. You should really notice, that depression is an illness!

If someone is depressed,he or she CANNOT think of what the others could feel. It´s not a thing of will or consciousness! You could compare it to any other illness or injury. You can´t stop bleeding when hurt just because you want to stop bleeding, can you? Like this, a deeply depressed person can´t do anything against the depression just by wanting to!

[northzax]

19. I think Kamika's point

was in reference to the above poster who defended the right to commit suicide. Obviously depression is a disease, I doubt you'll get many arguements on that one, and there may be an inherent right to end one's own life, but if you are suffering from depression, you are surely not qualified to make a rational decision about ending your own life. catch-22.

I also support the right of people of sound mind to end their own lives, but it is an inherently selfish act, abandoning the pain to others.

[DoNotRefill]

23. What you see as an inherently selfish act....

I see as an act of mercy to spare unbearable human suffering. I guess it depends on your life-experience.

[northzax]

24. let me be perfectly clear

I fully support the right of the terminally ill to end their suffering, but I believe it should be done only in consultation with loved ones. if ending your own personal pain comes at the expense of increasing pain on others then it is a selfish, even cruel act. however, if you make your peace with loved ones, and you do not leave others to be a burden on family and friends, i can support the decision. that means you say goodbye to people, really say goodbye. you leave your affairs in the best order possible, and you certainly dont leave yourself around for someone to find later.

i repeat my basic premise. if you do something relieves your pain but increases the pain of others, it is a selfish act. anything you do at the expense of others is selfish, kinda the definition of the word. this is one reason why i am convinced that depression is a disease (not that anyone really needs convincing, the arguement has been made) any condition that causes people to deliberatly do things to hurt people they love is obviously toxic.

[DoNotRefill]

26. Heh...

"but I believe it should be done only in consultation with loved ones. if ending your own personal pain comes at the expense of increasing pain on others then it is a selfish, even cruel act."

And if your loved ones refuse to grant consent? There's NO way my mother will ever give her consent for me to die, regardless of the cause. She's Catholic, I'm not.

I'm in a situation where eventually I'll die anyway from the underlying condition. One way or another, my friends and family will almost certainly outlive me. They're going to be hurt and sad when I die, regardless of how I die. Either way, they're going to suffer when I die. Why should I be forced to suffer longer to delay suffering for them that eventually MUST come?

[Kamika]

28. Hi thanks

You got my point pretty dead on :)

[Lars39]

16. When you are lost in yourself, with unending pain, you could give a

rat's ass for anybody else, and that's not selfishness, it's a condition.

[DoNotRefill]

22. It depends on the situation.

I look at it from my perspective, which is that I have a birth defect that's caused me a great deal of physical pain throughout my life, and which has continually gotten worse, and will get worse until it eventually kills me. There's NOTHING they can do medically to arrest the progression, much less to reverse the process. When it gets to the point that I can't take the pain any more, what am I supposed to do, just continue to suffer???

When our pets are in great pain, it's "humane" to euthanize them. When we're in great pain, it's somehow wrong for us to euthanize ourselves? Hell, I can say "Hey! This Sucks! I want to die now!" Animals can't.

If friends think you're selfish because you can't stand the pain any longer and take your own life to end your suffering, they're not much of a fucking friend. If they expect you to not take your life to end your suffering so they can have you around writhing in pain, who the FUCK is the selfish one????????!?!?!?!?!?

[northzax]

25. are you of sound mind?

in the legal sense? if you are capable of making a rational decision to do this act, and can justify it when asked (as you have done, but I hope more in depth to your friends and relatives) then it is a completely different situation than suicide based on mental illness.

[DoNotRefill]

27. depends on who you ask...

MrBenchley undoubtedly thinks I'm completely insane. I think I'm very rational. I live with pain 24/7. Its never going to go away, and is only going to get worse (the difference in pain over the past 5 years is astounding to me, and in another 5 years, the pain I'm in now will seem like a picnic.)

I don't think I'm mentally ill, just physically ill.

[HuckleB]

29. Each year, we know more about the biological underpinnings of suicide...

And it's fairly clear that the majority of suicides have a definite biological component. Mentall illness occurs when something is not working as it should in the brain. It is no different than when something is not working as it should in the liver, the pancreas, the kidneys, the heart, the lungs. This can't be overstated. We must get rid of this stigma that mental illness is a moral defect. It is not.

[rasputin1952]

31. There are many feelings about suicide...

most of them misinformed.

Depression is indeed, quite often treatable, sometimes, it is not.

But the crux of the situation is, those that embrace thoughts of suicide have numerous and sundriy reasons for doing so. If there is help available, one should indeed search it out, and get whatever aid is necessary.

In my experience, (I have never been suicidal, but have known several that have attempted, and a few that succeeded), I have found that many suicides, (and attempts), are of the "call for sympathy" types, and that does indeed include the selfish variety.

Suicide not only affects those in the act, but those that are left behind as well. It is a selfish act, regardless of whether, it is not, "intended to be selfish". Those left behind are caught up in the web of suspicion as to whether they were to blame in some way. They are, for the rest of their lives, stuck with the thought that they may have, in some way, prevented this event from happening.

I am a proponent of diagnosis for depression, but I am not a proponent of suicide. I hope that all who are afflicted with severe depression seek out and receive treatment that is available. But suicide truly destroys those left behind just as assuredly as those that take their own lives.

[Booberdawg]

32. kick

[geniph]

35. The reason I don't support euthanasia for depression

is that, while it can often be a life-threatening disease, it is not necessarily incurable. Yes, it can seem as if it will last forever and nothing will ever change and things can only get worse. But you can't know that. A person with metastatic pancreatic cancer WILL die, and in great pain. THAT is incurable. That person should not be made to suffer and die in horrible indignity.

For most of my life, I believed that hell was my natural state of mind, that there was no hope, that suicide was the only answer. Every time I heard of a successful suicide (and there's a strange term for you), my immediate, knee-jerk response was never sorrow, but always envy. Yet, for the last three or four years, I have been ... dare I say it? ... "normal." I no longer have the repeating tape loop, "she shot herself, she shot herself" running continuously in the background of my mind. I no longer think "oh a flat tire. I'm going to kill myself." It IS possible for depressives, even chronic severely suicidal depressives, to experience remission. So I don't believe in euthanasia for those suffering great mental pain. It IS possible for it to be eased, even sometimes cured.

I almost believe that myself now, most of the time. There are still bad days, but they no longer outnumber the good days.

*****HOPE***** to all of you who are suffering. I do understand. I really do.

[flama]

36. Motivation, inspiration, and creativity

After three unsuccessful attempts during my horrid teen years, I decided that I was destined to live. Good decision, eh, kid?

Every once in a while, I got so depressed that even the thought of losing you didn't stand in the way of wishing I were dead. My brother once told me that nobody had ever shot themselves in the eye. How unique! My left eye doesn't work, you know, so wouldn't scare me while I pulled the trigger. Rats! Last year a bank robber's gun jammed - so he looked down the barrel and pulled the trigger. There goes that idea! And I'd written such a fun scene!

A university in Minnesota, so I'm told, used to offer a course in creative suicide. The instructor for the course belonged to a car pool. One day, on his turn to drive, he kept raving about the beauty of the morning, even saying that it was a great day to be alive. He stopped his car on a bridge, telling his riders he wanted to take a good look at the morning sky. He pocketed his keys and jumped.

My motivations for living these days include wanting to watch my daughter become a mother, watching my granddaughter grow, not wanting my dog to find a third dead master instead of breakfast, and wanting to finish all the stories in my head. When you include the granddaughter, I might just want to live forever. Just being a mother now preclues any thought of death.

There will come a day, I am sure, when my health fails past the medical industry's ability to fix it within my chosen remedies. At that time, I will talk with my family and we will decide together when to let me go. Before that time, I want my family to feel the agony of my presence, not the agony of my death.

Ma

[rasputin1952]

38. Your story about the MN college instructor...

justifies what I had posted earlier, it was a selfish act, at least on his part.

Get everyone all souped up over the beauty of the day, and how wonderful life is; then stop, pocket the keys and jump. This was not done as an act of mercy, it was an act of complete selfishness. The guy may have died as he wanted to, but he ruined several other lives in the process. I am almost sure he had planned this over at least a short period of time. He was out to makes others miserable. Didn't even have the courtesy to leave others out, but deliberatley dragged them into the web.

How truly sad.

[Deja Q]

37. I wrote to them once... Sadly, they never wrote back.

Oh well, does anybody have any ice cream?

(sorry, I had to say something stupid. Anyone who hasn't put me on Ignore yet knows I've been getting all depressed and weird lately...)