"Most all hunters ... ARE Fundies and Red Staters." Agree or disagree?

[BikeWriter]

Poll question: "Most all hunters ... ARE Fundies and Red Staters." Agree or disagree?

We were discussing hunting on a forum I moderate and a poster made the above statement. I thought I'd ask your opinion.
Thank you for your participation.

[jswordy]

1. To link hunting and politics is...

asinine, though it makes good political grist to do so. I do not hunt, but all that means is that I let other people do my killing for me. And I'm a liberal.

[txaslftist]

10. A bit overstated...

...unless hunting for ground burger in the meat section qualifies as hunting. Virtually no one hunts in the US for subsistence food (except, of course, the fishing industry). Hunters hunt for recreation, sport, and (in the case of most of us) a chance to get out of the house, away from the spouse, and to drink and fart out loud without consequences.

I agree with you that there is no real link between hunting and politics. Many of my fellow dems are hunters and very pro-second amendment.

[jswordy]

20. You are wrong.

I have many friends and neighbors who hunt to live. They could not make it through the year without the meat they provide themselves by hunting (deer, dove and turkey, mostly), the meat they raise themselves (goat is excellent) and the veggies they can from their gardens. So "virtually no one" hunts for subsistence food is incorrect.

"Hunting for ground beef" is exactly what I was talking about. All you do then is, you let someone else hold the stun gun to the cow's head on the line, fire a 4-inch bolt into her brain, and cut her jugular to bleed her out as she is lifted up by the hind leg on the chain to be eviscerated down the line. You are just getting someone else to do your killing for you, so you can have your meat nice and plastic wrapped. But you are still in effect killing to live. We all have to, even vegetarians, who kill plants to live. I'm a cattleman, I know something about it.

As far as recreational hunters, sorry, but I can't justify animals losing their lives just so one can "get out of the house, away from the spouse, and to drink and fart out loud without consequences." The types I most despise fall pretty evenly in these categories:

1.) Those who have the stuipidity to drink with a high-powered rifle in their hands. Beer and liquor after the hunt is fine. But to get slack-jawed and fire a weapon capable of shooting 2 miles is foolhardy.

2.) Trespassers, who cut farm fences and do as they please because they think they own the whole outdoors once they put on camo.

3.) Hunters who are so lazy, fat and out of shape that they have to ride ATVs or 4WD pickups or even motorcycles in and ruin watersheds and habitat to sit in their deer stands.

4.) Hunters who bait their game because they do not have the skill to hunt. Hunting means spending time out learning their habitats and haunts. It means having the skill and making the time investment. It does not mean taking a swig of whisky in a deer stand, looking down at the spot you have been baiting with corn and deer suckers for a month and waiting for the deer to come to it.

5.) Hunters who leave their trash behind for the landowner they trespassed on to pick up.

6.) Hunters who kill for trophies only, and waste the rest. This is a huge, huge group. I know it for a fact, because they do not hide it around here, they are proud of it.

I am a landowner, and I have hunted. But I don't hunt now because I don't have to hunt to provide my meat.

Eat what you kill, don't trespass, don't trash up nature and learn to stalk and kill, and you are a real hunter. The rest (about 80 percent) are pretenders.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

46. Totally incorrect...

You've never been around my farts...there are consequences. Otherwise I'm in total agreement.

[BikeWriter]

13. I thought the same thing, as did several others on my forum. :-)

[El Fuego]

30. Hunting=GUNS=NRA=GOP

That's my logic. Like you said, we have the luxury of letting other people kill for us, even though I for one don't like to think about it. But my observation is that people who choose to hunt and kill for enjoyment and recreation are usually righties.

[BikeWriter]

32. No way! Look at the poll.

[Redneck Socialist]

49. Your logic is faulty and

the right loves you for it. That is precisely the connection they want folks to make.

Another way to think about it is Hunting=generally rural=rural issues given short shrift by the Democrats=too many rural folks voting for repubs.

As long as we on the left continue to accept the rights formulas without challenging them we continue to allow the pubs to define us. As long as we let the right define us we will continue to lose elections.

on edit: typo

[7th_Sephiroth]

2. i hunt

i'm not a fundie, or a rightr winger

[BikeWriter]

21. Me neither. I'm anything but! :-)

[enki23]

3. anecdotal, but i'm sure they make up a majority. yes.

most of the hunters i grew up around were very stupid, and very right-wing. my father and grandfather, however, were both avid hunters, and both avid democrats.

still, it's largely an urban/rural thing, just like damned near everything else. so yes, most hunters are republicans and live in red states. if for no other reason, simply because most of the hunting is where more republicans live.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Oh please....Tell that to MrG and his family. Avid hunters and Dems

for the most part. You'd have a hard time proving that theory up here in the midwest where I saw just as many sportsmen for Kerry as I did for Bush. :hi:

[Bunny]

7. Same here in VERY blue Western PA. n/t

[BikeWriter]

22. Thank you, Bunny! :-)

[BikeWriter]

18. Thank you, Ma'am! :-)

[Liberal Veteran]

5. I don't think there is any evidence either way...

The only thing I can say is that we lefties are less likely to go around bragging about our guns and hunting so that may explain why it might seem that way.

[Worst Username Ever]

6. The majority? Probably. All? Not even close.

[BikeWriter]

33. This results might be interesting if the freepers pick up the poll. :-)

[Osamasux]

8. There are certainly differences in how they do it,

but there are many urban hunters. Urban hunters join hunting clubs and plan big hunting trips, mainly because getting to the hunting grounds is a big issue. Rural hunters wear their camo to the supermarket during the season, just so they can be ready at a moments notice.

I hunt and I vote Blue.

[BikeWriter]

41. "I hunt and I vote Blue." Me, too! :-)

[RebelOne]

9. I work for a hunting and fishing publishing company.

All of the editors are hunters and the majority of them are Republicans. I'm in the red state of Georgia.

[cabbage08]

11. Disagree

\

[DS1]

12. Most or all? Tell poster to make his damn mind up.

And then learn how to write :D

/elitist

[BikeWriter]

16. My co moderators are unhappy with him now. ;-)

[StopTheMorans]

14. wouldn't agree. i have a lot of family who hunt, they're all blue-staters

and none of them are fundies. nor are most the people who live in the town i grew up in (which is full of avid hunters). they're hicks, but definitely not the fundie type...

[BikeWriter]

40. I agree with you. I was trying to get the guy to bet!

:)

[AlCzervik]

15. What the hell is an all hunter??

someone who runs around looking for people who need their belts made smaller?

[billbuckhead]

17. Probably 40% of hunters are freepers, another 20% lean Republican,

20% could be called Dems and the rest are really independent or are drifting cluelessly.

I bet 5% of Americans use game as a major part of their diet.

[Skittles]

19. I bet most people who hunt just for fun are republicans, yes

but I'm sure such cowards exist in all states

[txaslftist]

24. Oh, bullshit...

...I hunt "just for fun". I admit it. I spend more on my guns, license, equipment, hunting and gun magazines and ammo than I could ever justify based on the one dog-sized Texas buck I take each year. My wife won't even eat venison, so most of it I either jerk or give to the butcher to donate to the homeless. I don't eat 1/10th of what I take, but it gets eaten. I don't take trophies, I give them to the taxidermist to sell to whoever he sells them to, I could care less.

I don't drink and hunt, but once I'm done hunting I go up in either the blind or the cabin and I drink because I'm out of the house and no one is there. If my buddies are willing, we play poker. For real money, too, and I lose more than 80 pounds of venison sausage would cost me at the market.

I don't subsist on hunting because for what a box of buckshots costs I could buy the supersized box of Bisquick at Sam's club and get more food out of it.

Hunting just for fun isn't cowardice, the two concepts aren't even closely related. Unless you give the buck, duck, boar, or goose a .12 gauge, he doesn't have a chance, regardless.

I've shot quite few deer, I ain't afraid of any of 'em.

[Skittles]

39. I stand by my opinion

people who can think of no better way to entertain themselves than to slaughter animals me sick- and yes, people who kill for fun are f***ing cowards.

[RebelOne]

47. I stand by your opinion, too.

Hunting is a cowardly and cruel sport. And you really can't call it a sport, since the other side is not equally armed and doesn't know there is a game going on.

[4_Legs_Good]

27. What a terrible thing to say!!!

(silently cheers)

anti-hunters are fair game (heh heh) here. It's one step above child molester...

david

2 legs bad

[FreakySally]

55. you can't compare hunting and politics

and that being said,

I'm a serious hunter and yes I do gain a great deal of enjoyment out of it, but it is not because it is 'fun to slaughter animals'. Being a member of the more environmentally conscious party, you should recognize that we have a responsibility to nature. Honestly, there aren't enough hunters these days. There have been studies that show that surburban growth actually raises deer populations because it increases the amount of readily available year round food. If herds are not kept under control, the quickly develop disease.

Also, you may not believe this, but deer are responsible for more deaths in the US than any other animal because of all the traffic fatalaties they cause.

These are facts.

my .02 .... I know I sound like a repub in your ears, but this is just not a political issue in my opinion. It doesn't fall under the same topic as handgun control.

[Bridget Burke]

23. Someone needs to get some real data....

Surely, studies have been made.

By "Red Staters"--do they mean people who voted for Bush or people in a state whose electoral votes went to Bush? There is a difference. Less hunting occurs in urban areas--of anything other than other humans.

Most hunters I know are not religious at all. For most people, hunting is recreation--isn't recreation like having fun? Are "fundies" allowed to do that?

(Oh, the hunters I know do prepare & cook their prey; but they also shop!)

[BikeWriter]

26. I took it he meant it iterally. He and I agree on politics, but he's..

off base on this, I think.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

25. No.

Here in Southwest New Mexico (which was a red state this time, but often goes blue) the majority of hunters are Hispanic, who, of course, usually vote democratic. I think it's probably more a rural/urban thing than repub/dem thing.

[hunter]

28. Strongly Disagree!

:silly:

[blondeatlast]

29. I've lived in red states all my life, mostly rural areas.

Hunters run the gamut of political/religious persuasion.

[TheMightyFavog]

31. Hunters are have a lot of potentail for us.

Many of them take pro-environment stands, however, these same peoplehave been brainwashed by the likes of the NRA with the meme that all Dems are out to take their guns away. If the Democratic Party drops gun control, we can reach out to these voters, and hopefully turn many of these red states blue.

[bearfan454]

34. I'm a liberal Democrat and I hunt.

Deer are tasty.

[BikeWriter]

37. I love venson, and I know you can cook, too!

:)

[cabbage08]

44. Hmmmmmmmm venison

[solinvictus]

35. I'm a hunter..

and I have no more affiliation with the NRA since they became nothing more than GOP shills. I consider myself a left-libertarian in that I prefer individual liberty with regulations on corporations and I am pro-union.

[sparky_in_ma]

36. I'm a hunter

And my brother, and my dad, and my uncles. One "fact" often repeated, but NOT true, is that the NRA is republican. They rate candidates based on voting history and questionnaires they send out. Rating system goes from A to F. I have seen many Democratic Candidate's names on the A list before. Kerry made the F list because of his Senate votes for many anti-gun bills, AWB included. I voted for him for other reasons, but many union members voted against him because of those votes.

[last_texas_dem]

38. I partly agree, partly disagree

I think it could be said that more hunters are "red-staters" simply because, generally, "red" states tend to be more rural than "blue" states. Also, I believe (I could be wrong) that hunting is more popular in southern states, and all southerns states are currently "red." I think the "red" state argument could be more fairly made by saying "rural" staters. States like Minnesota and Wisconsin are also big hunting states and have a lot of rural areas- and they are "blue."

I've seen no evidence of hunters being "fundies." Most of the hunters I've known have been more "good ol' boy" types than fundies. Sure, they believe in God, attend church occasionally, but I wouldn't call them fundies. More live and let live types, even if significantly more conservative than me. And keep in mind that I live in the middle of the "Bible Belt."

I have mixed feelings about hunting. I've never hunted and have no desire to do it. I don't think I'd be comfortable doing it. But I'd feel like a hypocrite criticizing someone for doing it since I do eat meat, and honestly, don't always know how the animals I eat have been killed. So long as hunters eat what they kill I have no problem with them.

[DeaconBlues]

42. Unfortunately, most hunters are extremely conservative with few exceptions

Every person I have ever known who enjoys hunting is a conservative. And growing up in rural West Virginia, I've known a great many. Attitudes toward hunting and politics are very correlated, despite the efforts of organizations like the Sierra Club to promote the image of the "environmentally savvy sportsman."

[BikeWriter]

43. I can't agree with "most." Look at the poll! There are millions of us!

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

45. This kills us...

We assume that all hunters are our political enemies, when in fact they are largely blue collar workers who agree with our economic policies, but don't like being looked down upon by east- and west-coast elitists who think we're savages because we hunt.

Scratch a hunter and you'll find a proto-environmentalist. Get the connection?

[BearClaws]

50. Probably Correct

Most hunters fear the threat losing their gun and hunting rights (privileges) from anti gun and anti hunting groups, which tend to be far lefties.
Us dems lose a lot of votes due to this conception.
As far as the trophy hunting thing, I have several close family members who are "Trophy Hunters" They actually utilize more of the animal than non trophy guy's.
The deer heads that you see on a wall is only the skin off the head and neck and antlers of that animal, parts that would otherwise be discarded.
there are very strong game laws in every state prohibiting the waste of game meat.
I agree with the fact that unless you are a strict vegan that you are being a hypocrite regarding hunters.
I hunted as a kid, but haven't hunted in years.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

52. Regardless other posts on this thread...

I've never met a hunter who simply let the carcass rot in the field. I'm sure it happens, but not among any hunters I've ever known.

I think it's a two-fold problem for Democrats

1) Hunters genuinely fear that liberals will take their guns (the VPC's campaign against "sniper rifles" is a good example -- what is a sniper rifle but a hunting rifle aimed at a human being?)

2) Hunters dislike the faux "moral high ground" that many liberals take with regard to hunting and shooting sports in general.

Being gay isn't part of my lifestyle, but I can certainly accept and respect that as part of another person's world. If Democrats were as accepting of sportsman's lifestyles as they were of gay culture, we'd be kicking ass in several of the Red States. This shouldn't be so difficult.

[TheMightyFavog]

56. And the NRA takes advantage of this

By things like their "Vote Freedom First" campaign of 2000, which targeted blue collar workers and conned them into voting for right wing slimeballs who'd fuck them over by making these people afraid that the Democrats and liberal candidate were going to take their guns away.

I've said it a million times. The Dems need to drop gun control now. It's done nothing but lose us votes.

[BikeWriter]

54. You are right. We can't exclude hunters.

[Redneck Socialist]

48. absolutely disagree

Despite what the right wing would have you believe (and all too many among the left) hunters are not automatically right wingers. The idea that hunters are fundies is even less accurate.

This is yet another wedge issue that the right has used all too successfully to divide us.

There is a real urban rural divide and unfortunately the right have been more successful in appealing to rural voters than the left. This is something Democrats must address or we will continue to loose elections.

[leftofthedial]

51. "most" means 51%

so I agree.

[BearClaws]

53. I Think...

hunters are fed huge lines of BS from right wing groups like the NRA ans SCI.
US Democrats will have a real hard time bucking the years of fear mongering tactics that have been perpetuated for many years by these RW groups.

[-..__...]

59. It doesn't help matters...

when there's Dem legislators like Feinstein, Schumer, McCarthy, Kennedy, Boxer, Mikulski, etc screaming and pleading for any gun control measure that they can possibly think of.

And once again, it becomes an urban .vs rural thing (Red State Dems tend to shy away from the gun control issue. Most would probably wish the issue would just go away).

[BikeWriter]

60. I know I would be!

[Bertha Venation]

57. As a rule, I disagree with ALL generalizations.

;)

[Padraig18]

58. I love to hunt, and I'm a liberal Dem in a blue state. n/t