Anyone else been listening to Mike Malloy's interview with Ward Churchill?

[NightTrain]

Not surprisingly, when given the chance to fully express his views, Professor Churchill comes across as a thinking, reasoned, intelligent man. No wonder the right hates him!

[tridim]

1. I remember when you could express your opinion in America

without being attacked by the machinery of an entire political party. Has the "news" even posed the 1st Amendment question yet?

[MnFats]

2. OK. But the victims of the 9/11 attacks were 'little Eichmanns?

Worse, "Eichmann never killed anybody?"

inflammatory language like that is going to get a response. Eichmann?

Don't get me wrong. I make my living off the First Amendment.

of course he has his right to free speech. but that's crazy.


on edit, I have to go pick up my daughter. I will turn on Malloy for the drive.....I hope i can gain some enlightenment...

[Zuni]

4. I have a big problem with that

Lt. Col Adolf Eichmann was head of RSHA Section IV (Gestapo) Bureau B4 (Jewish Affairs). In that position, he ran a day to day program of mass extermination. He is even quoted as saying to Raoul Wallenberg, one of the greatest heroes of WWII (he saved as many as 50,000 people from the gas chambers by handing out Swedish passports at great risk to himself. He was later murdered by the Soviets) "I will leap into my grave laughing. I have 5 million souls on my conscience."

How is working in the WTC anywhere similar to working for the Gestapo? Even the CEO of Wal Mart is not remotely comparable to the cheif of Bureau IVB4, a man who as his job, ran the day to day operations of genocide.

[JohnKleeb]

5. Yes

Thank you, you know more about the full details than I do Zuni. What Eichmann did was horrible. I dont like or I dare say, I hate corporate america but none of those people even if they are despicable bastards is like Adolf Eichmann. Churchill has the right to say what he wants to say, its part of his first amendmenet rights but if you expect me to like it, you gotta be kidding me, the Nazis tyrannized my mom's family and even killed my grandfather's cousin.

[Zuni]

7. my grandparents were slave laborers in Nazi Germany

My grandfather was a Russian Officer in the 9th Red Army which was surrounded and destroyed along with 2 other Soviet armies in the 2nd Battle of Kharkov in May-June 1942. He was wounded and captured. He was in a POW camp for a year, starving and sick. Luckily, he was an engineer and the Nazis sent him to Berlin to work in a factory which saved his life.
My grandmother was from Rostov on Don. After Stalingrad, in 1943, as the Germans evacuated the city, they took thousands of laborers with them. My grandmother and my aunt were with them. My grandmother was essentially a slave laborer, but she ate more than she did than during the famines of the 1920s and 1930s.
At the end of the war, after my grandparents had met, they escaped to American lines to avoid being sent back to the USSR. My mother waqs born a year later in a refugee camp in Bavaria.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I know of the battle of Kharkov, near the Ukraine , yes?

I dont know what it is but its something about knowing what my family went through in those years that will make me freak at people who act like what the Nazis did was minor, changed the world forever I do say. It is a miracle that my grandfather's family survived being they fought back..

[Zuni]

12. Yes.

That battle was actually the beginning of the push of the German 6 Army towards Stalingrad on the Volga. The battle for Stalingrad essentially began on July 23 (my birthday, coincidentially) when Hitler ordered the fortress city to be stormed.

[JohnKleeb]

14. ha your birthday is the day before mine

I just cant knowing what I know happened in Europe condone his comments, sure he can say what he wants to say, I wont stop that, but if I ever saw him, you bet he would get my temper on him.

[Zuni]

17. People born on the Leo-Cancer Cusp unite!

We WERE meant to rule the world, Mr. Kleeb. It is in the stars

[JohnKleeb]

18. ha I just wanna live humbly and write

Yep July 24, the same day my mom's parents were married.

[Zuni]

11. Even the most callous Corporate CEOs like Ken Lay

do not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as a man who as his job, caused the extermination of millions.
Ken Lay is a criminal by any standards, but Adolf Eichmann belongs in a class with very few peers---people like Genghis Khan, Nero, Attila, Timurlane, Ivan IV, Yezhov and Beria (NKVD heads in USSR who ran the purges), Idi Amin, Pol Pot etc.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Thats how I feel

I want Ken Lay punished as much as anyone but hes not like Eichmann.

[NightTrain]

8. You weren't listening to the interview when Churchill explained...

...himself on that point, were you? I hope you did, in fact, turn on Malloy's show when you were out driving.

[MnFats]

21. I did, but Malloy was on to something else.

i will keep looking for relevant info....but the Eichmann imagery I cannot countenance. Eichmann DESIGNED the fucking "Final Solution," f'chrissakes.

Read about the Wansee conference.

I think I understand his point -- that we all in some measure through our country's imperialism share responsibility for 9/11. We must confront our complicity.

But why, Oh WHY make that point using the fucking Eichmann imagery?
It's like a taunt, the back of his hand, to people who suffered, and an insult to those who died on 9/11.

Do you know anyone who died 9/11? I do --- and he was no fucking 'little Eichmann.' He ran a company that makes medical devices that save people's lives.

[Zuni]

23. Eichmann did not design it

but he was in charge of the Gestapo section that ran the deportations of Jews to the death camps.

There are very few people in history that have a degree of guilt even in the same naighborhood as Eichmann. Even Bush, in my opinion, for all the damage he has done at home and abroad, cannot compare to Eichmann.

[Ilsa]

3. Yeah.

Interesting points being made. I may have taken a comment of his out of context, but the man should never be silenced.

[Zuni]

6. No one should ever be silenced for opinions

But, should the U of Colorado be forced to allow him to Teach classes when he is clearly prone to being disruptive? Should a University be forced to allow someone to teach Nazi racial theories in class?
Churchill should be able to say what he wants, but Colorado does not need to employ the man as a teacher. Teaching classes is not an absolute right.

Besides, I read he lied about his Indian roots to get the position in the first place.

[11cents]

10. U of Col's mistake was in tenuring him

He sounds like a complete fraud from beginning to end, and very much of a piece psychologically with "Jeff Gannon." Baby-men. It's ridiculous that he was tenured, an embarrassment to the University. But now that he is, they shouldn't suspend their rules merely because of what he said. If there are other, better reasons, have at him.

[Zuni]

15. That is the issue

as I have come to understand it. I was unaware of the protocol of tenuring, and I realize now it would be unethical to fire him for his statements. I said earlier that the University shouldn't have to employ other embarrassing teachers, like someone who taught about the Bell Curve or Nazi racial theories. But since they gave him tenure, to remove him now would only be unethical. In my opinion, the3 state must honor their contract and pay him, but are under no obligation to give him classes to teach.

He should have stuck out like a Red Flag.
That the University gave him tenure is their own fault and I guess they can't fire him.
But they do not have to give him classes, in my opinion.

[NightTrain]

16. Seems my thread has been hijacked by unmarried marriage counselors.

Congratulations, DUers! Once again, you've taken the lying fascist right at its word. Like good little lemmings, you're placating the neoCONS by offering up Ward Churchill as a sacrificial lamb without bothering to learn a goddamned thing about the man beyond what O'Liely and Oxyrush have said about him.

Is it any wonder I think the left and the right can equally be full of shit?

[Zuni]

19. I have read various articles about him beyond that

and he is most certainly way, way, way out in Left field.

Now what did he really say in regard to Eichmann? Please explain where I am wrong.

[JohnKleeb]

20. Wait because I disagree with what he says, I am a neo-con?

He has a right to say whatever he likes, thats the first amendment right but do I have to like it. Fuck O'Reilly and Rush. You act like everything is so black and white man. I have a problem with Churchill comparing crooked CEOs to one of the most evil men in history, Ken Lay deserves to rot in a jail cell for what he did but what he did pales in comparsion to what Adolf Eichmann did. I will defend Churchill's right to say what he feels but I don't have to like it.

[Zuni]

22. Exactly

Churchill can say what he wants, period.
But from what I have read, this guy is a real embarrassment to the left and liberals precisely because of his comments.
If he is tenured, then the University should pay him until his contract is up, but the University does not have to let this moonbat continue to teach. I don't think that anyone has a right to teach, and if they are disruptive to the learning environment because they make inane comments, then the University does not have any obligation to keep him there.

If he was a Neo-Nazi, would you be concerned if he was fired? Why should left wingers be allowed to make offensive comments and then escape censure?