If you were raised in an extreme religious environment...

[Not_Giving_Up]

Does it effect you now? Not the typical churchgoer parents, but lean towards a Fundie. Are you unable to do things as an adult that you wish you could, simply because of something that was ground into your brain?

If not, how did you overcome?

[Ladyhawk]

1. Yes, I was severely affected by my fundamentalist upbringing.

I cannot have sex because:

1) I was molested by a churchgoer
2) Sex was described as evil and the emotional part of me won't let go of this.

I also have trouble with relationships. My social and emotional development were arrested by fundamentalist religion. I've never felt quite right. :(

If you want the full story: http://www.goldrush.com/~ladyhawklh/Walk%20Away.doc

It's something I wrote a few years ago. My fear of hell is nearly gone, which is good because I need surgery for my neck soon.

[Jamastiene]

4. I think I can help you lose the rest of your fear of Hell

I look at it this way. If fundies are an example of what is going to Heaven, Hell can't be a bad place. At least you won't have to spend eternity with them. :)

I suffer from the same kind of damage, btw. It's nice to know there is someone else who feels the same way, but I hate either of us had to endure it.

[Ladyhawk]

8. I hate that we had to endure it, too.

What's worse, now that we're better, our stupid country is going fundy! Let me quote Howard Dean on that:

"YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH"

Oh, that feels good!

Dean also said, "Finally I said I am tired of taking orders from the fundamentalist preachers anymore, and when I said that, the entire room exploded. Everybody felt that this incredibly oppressive group of people had taken over the country and there was no reason to hope anymore. We gave people hope."

Go, Howard! :)

[Jamastiene]

10. He's a life saver

I'm glad there are others who like him. :)

[alittlelark]

2. That question could take hours to answer....

Mother was Fundie - nut ( in the 70's). She was convinced I was possessed by demons (for real here...) and had me go through rituals to eradicate the 'demons'. For a short while I thought she was right. Once I snapped out of it I also snapped any REAL bonds between us,

I overcame by THINKING and ANALYZING.

[Ladyhawk]

5. Hey, my mother was convinced I was possessed by demons, too!

No kidding! This was last year. :) She approached my counselor and told him I was demon-possessed because she went snooping and found some things I had written that were not for her eyes. One was a poem called "The Accuser" which described a beast that tormented me.

Well, the beast was my depression and lack of self-worth, which were partially caused by my mother's crazy-ass religion. The poem was metaphorical, but she took it literally. I really, really can't stand to be around fundies.

[Jamastiene]

3. Yes

In a very bad way. I cannot make friends. I cannot get over my Christian phobia even if the person is a liberal Christian, I tend to not be able to trust them. I cannot find a therapist who can let me tell them about ALL of the beatings and abuse. They can't take it because there is so much to tell and I was beaten for stupid things. I cannot form a decent relationship because I am so damaged emotionally. I cannot look at the Heaven/Hell definitions without questioning how Hell could be so bad compared to life if none of those people are going to be there. I cannot see the good in life. I am still surrounded by fundies who stand in my way of succeeding because I am not one of them and they don't want me in their midst, because they know I will work to destroy their stranglehold of power in local government. I am doomed as long as I can't make money to get out of here and I can't make money for having relapses into PTSD and panic attacks when they start talking about how they believe violence should be the way to deal with "Hollywood liberals" and gays and race mixers, etc. I'm pretty much thinking Hell can't be that bad of a place if none of the fundies will be there. And heaven couldn't be good if they were there. I just hope I don't end up spending eternity with them.

[Ladyhawk]

12. I am really sorry about your pain and have had a similar experience.

People who have not suffered religious abuse don't get it, usually. :(


Here is a book I heartily recommend: Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell. You can even get therapy by phone with her, if you can afford it.

Luckily, I found a therapist who was able to listen to my pain. But like you, I cannot form a decent relationship because I am so emotionally damaged.

One thing that has changed for me is that I am able to find some good in life through nature. My trust in people is pretty much gone, so I look to animals and nature for sustenance. Hiking and swimming in a beautiful lake is better than dealing with people.

Recently, I cut off all my fundy relationships. I just can't deal with those people anymore and that includes my mother and her whole family. My father's family never gave a rat's ass about me, so no loss there. I'm on my own now, trying to find my niche by attending Democratic Club meetings, Peace Group meetings, etc. I hope I can meet people who aren't quite so scary at places like these.

If all else fails, I will move from this fundy-saturated area.

Like you, I am angry with religious folks, but I'm learning to accept liberal Christians. I believe they have a large role to play when it comes to taking back America. I can agree to disagree with them. However, I don't want them in my life...not very close, at least. If I do find a close relationship, I want it to be with another atheist. Religious folks tend to carry an agenda.

Sorry about the blathering, but this topic is emotional for me...as it is for everyone who will post.

[Jamastiene]

15. Oh, don't apologize

please. You sound like you are exactly in the same frame of mind as I am to a large degree. I too turn to nature. Believe it or not, many political debates can be won if you point out the truth about nature (Mother Nature) and what the real deal is when it comes to many of the issues. One example is the fundies anti sex education arguments (abstinence only). I mean nature says when it is time, no human should expect to go against nature by "abstaining" like they recommend. That's just one example. I mean what I am trying to say is that I feel hopeful now that I know I am not alone in feeling this way about the damage the religious zealots have caused me.

[drumwolf]

22. Race mixers? You still have a lot of fundies who think like that?

when they start talking about how they believe violence should be the way to deal with "Hollywood liberals" and gays and race mixers, etc

The part about "Hollywood liberals and gays" goes without saying, but "race mixers"? Are there still a lot of fundie neo-Pharisee Bush supporters who think like that?

I had been under the impression that most rank-and-file Rethugs used liberals, gays and Muslims as the new scapegoats and kept their race-based prejudice more under wraps. Also, I got the sense that most of the hardcore white supremacists weren't in the Republican fold anymore. Am I wrong?

[Jamastiene]

24. Absolutely,

and the race haters are not just in the Republican party, like you might think. Rockingham, NC is such a place where it is normal to hear white AND black separatist and supremacist views. As a matter of fact, the majority of the people here are that way in this area. They don't hide it at all. Plus don't forget about Bob Jones University. The msm version of that story is actually the cleaned up version of how these people think. You have no idea until you spend a little time around an area like where I live and listen to how people think.

And yes, there are Democrats who feel exactly that same way. Hence, Bush is still president. Trust me, they are dems who vote republican in the general election and although I can't remember the quote word for word, when I registered to vote, the person that registered me back in 1988 specifically said that usually what people do is register democrat so they can vote for the most conservative candidate in the primaries. In other words, there are a lot of people registered democrat who do not vote democrat and their sole purpose in doing that is to try to tip the democratic nominee conservative every time. That is just one way they keep racism alive and well. The repugs keep their noses clean on the surface in this area, because the democrats are doing the dirty work under the radar. That is how they do it. It's no secret as far as the racism goes.

Also, don't forget Decision 2000 when they had the "protests" down in Florida over vote recounts. An awful lot of those people there were posting racist diatribes on Newsmax.com and many of the people in the streets were full out neonazis. They had swastika emblems on their clothes and everything. No one mentioned it, but I nocited.

[The Zanti Regent]

37. Yes you do

In 1980, my Orthodox Jewish family solidly supported Jimmy Carter. But by 1984, all of my family converted to the ASSemblies of God except for one brother in law and I.

And, yes in 1984, the all voted for Reagan except for my brother in law and I, they've all been hard core Nazis since.

As for race mixing, I have dealt with it on a personal basis. After my son was born in 1985, my wife up and left me, yes the ASS of G broke our marriage up. She up and left me alone with my infant son. As for her, she gets deeper into the ASS of G and has her own "ministry".

In 1995, I fell in love with an 18 year old British African American I met on the LA Subway. We've lived together ever since. She's into the Soka Gakkai and she does Buddhist chanting. Me, I stayed with my Orthodox ways. Sadly, my son started watching TV preachers and I saw how Christianity made his heart hard as stone. He became real right wing.

I took my girl back to my hometown of Ambridge PA when my mother died, we were shocked at the bigotry we faced, as we walked down Merchant Street(the main street), people rolled down the windows and yelled out the N word or they called me an "N" lover. Sadly, Ambridge has become the center of right wing Episcopalians, financed by those bigots Scaife and Ahmanson.

My family made it clear that they did not approve of my living with a black woman, and they kept pulling out their blbles and bullshitting about the Curse of Ham. It was a pleasure to see my girl start her chanting right in front of them as they recited the Lawd's prayer. We left, never to return.

As for my son, I sadly saw how hate filled he became, he insisted on going to church with his friends, I pleaded with him and so did my girl, he refused. Yes, more and more I heard intolerant racism babbling out of his mouth, then after 9/11 he insisted on going into the army and killing Sadaam for Jesus. And he couldn't wait to kill those Sand "N"'s for Jesus. The recruiters came to my house, I told them they were not welcome, so my boy met them at school, They made it sound like killing was such fun, it's a game, you see. He couldn't wait to sign up.

Then he went to Iraq, took a bullet in his spine, suffered for months and died last thanksgiving. My only boy, my only child, killed in the name of Jesus.

Fuck those Christians. Fuck them all!

[Jamastiene]

38. I'm sorry to hear that

you lost your only child to those cruel bastards. People are so heartless really. They used him as a pawn in their sick and twisted ideology. They make me sick to my stomach. They will stoop to any new low they can find.

I still don't get the anti race mixing stance that those people have, but they sure do hate people for doing it. I always say to them that the first rule of genetics is to spread the genes apart, their family tree doesn't fork, etc. It usually pisses them off badly enough that they won't ever speak to me again, which is what I prefer... I'm part native american indian but my skin tone is whiter than many of those people, so they irk me by being stupid as well as racist. It's really screwed up when you heard some racist garbage come out of their mouth and they are darker in skin tone than you are. I mean if you can imagine that. It would actually look like some sort of comedy skit if it was recorded for television. I'm standing there whiter than them even though I am mixed race and they stand there mixed race as well and spouting off their white supremacist bullshit.

[Erika]

6. I was raised Mormon

My brother is a Mormon Bishop. My great grandfather was a polygamist and my grandmother was one of 31 children borne to my great grandfather. As much as they tried to ingrain religion into me, I saw it all as a sack of ----. Much like the Catholics who demanded tithing as they set on their imperial missions to rid the world of Pagan Gods while they allowed the western world to plunder the riches of the conquered countries and allowed genocide on those people.

I overcame by setting my own standards. My first standard is rejecting organized religion.

[CanuckAmok]

7. Yes...I was raised a Fundamentalist Snake-Charmer (Reformed)

And to this day, I can't even walk past a pet store without sneaking in and charming some of their inventory.

I need help.

[Jamastiene]

9. You serious?

What's the secret? I want to play with snakes just cause I like them. Did you drink strychnine (sic?) too?

[Ladyhawk]

14. I think this is an attempt to inject some frivolity into the discourse. nt

[Erika]

11. Bush empowers the bigotry

of religious sects to overturn our democracy based on freedom of religion and freedom of religion. His use of the word "evil" to describe those who rally against his corporate globalist polices is all telling. He worships corporate greed and is probably the worst example the right could use as a symbol of a Christian man.

You have to learn to divorce yourselves from those who say they are Godly but act in an unGodly manner. Most of the evangelical movement fits into this picture. It's their problem, not yours.

[Ladyhawk]

13. Unfortunately, many of them MADE it our problem.

I was horribly brainwashed and even now, the fundy set can't help but try to re-convert me. I cut them out of my life, but I'll always carry the scars. So, it is my problem. I have to deal with it.

[Erika]

16. My advice, let it go.

Today's organized religion is nothing other than corporate globalists on a minute scale.

I believe deeply that if everyone followed Christ's Golden Rule, that this world would be OK. Bush, the evangelists, and many of other churches chose to put Christ's Golden Rule into a trash can and take a hike on it. How you think they have any right to an influence on you is beyond me.

[Ladyhawk]

17. I have let it go. But some of it clings on.

If you haven't gone through it, you can't know.

Unless you read my link (above), you don't have the slightest clue of what I have gone through. Even then, you couldn't understand. It's pretty audacious of you to tell me how to run my life. I am healing at my own rate. I am doing all the right things and I won't be told how I should feel by someone who never walked even a step in my moccasins.

I have made a lot of positive choices for my life in the past few months, but I won't kid myself into thinking I no longer bear the scars of the past. Those who don't remember the past are, after all, condemned to repeat it. No more fundies for me! No more religionists of any stripe telling me how I should feel!

Woohoo!!!!!

[Erika]

19. I insisted that I be excommunicated from the Mormons

so they would leave me alone and so they got my message. They have the last laugh because they believe in baptism of the dead and the excommunicated once again seeing the light and joining the church after their death.

The Mormon church will rebaptise me after my death because I've seen the light. How anyone can believe in all this garbage is beyond me. I laugh at those evangelicals who believe they are so enlightened that it is their duty to spread the word. They are egotistical supreme.

Then you add the fact that those who donate to Church's deprive our tax base of helping all the needy, and the conclusion is drawn is that they are out their for their own gain.

Let them believe as they might, but I would never set myself up to think they are more moral than I am. They certainly do not qualify as mu judge.

[Jamastiene]

18. You talk about the golden rule, but

you are forgetting to think about the many different types of abuse, emotional, mental, physical, that come with spiritual abuse. If you have ever heard of the gift that keeps on giving, and then change the word gift to something like curse, you'll be closer to understanding what many of us have been through instead of coping some thoughtless attitude about it. You talk about television evangelists. They are so far removed from growing up surrounded by abusive impossible people. It's like a prison sentence that you never can forget. It's something you have to experience first hand to understand.

[Erika]

21. I have experienced that abuse as a child

I was told the "devil could be seen in my eyes and in my talk". These were people who proclaimed to be good Churchgoers. I have seen my brother's back shredded in beatings. When they told me they were going to beat me so I would see the light...well, let's put it this way, I acted in a manner where they backed off and I got out of that insane religious household.

[Jamastiene]

27. You sound like

some other people I know. The abusee becomes the abuser. Either you learn to heal in a way that keeps you from becoming abusive yourself and take a longer time to do so or you act callous toward someone who is still trying to heal. Saying things to a person who is trying her best to cope and express her hurt like "Get over it" is a classic example of verbal abuse. Abusee becomes the abuser...

[Ladyhawk]

23. Also, every person must heal at their own rate.

Every person is different. As a highly sensitive person, it takes me longer than most folks to heal from a hurtful event. Each person should be given the space and time they deserve and not be told how to heal. Doing so is pretty arrogant.

Only a trained counselor who knows the temperament and background of a patient is qualified to make suggestions. Even then, I've found many of them rather lacking in common decency. "Get over it" or "let it go"--those are not helpful or welcome statements.

During my student teaching experience, my master teacher's father died due to complications from an automobile accident. Before she had had enough time to recover, the principal came in and told her to "let it go" and "get over it." :mad: As you can imagine, such advice was not very helpful, nor was it welcome. It came as a non-feeling admonition from someone who just didn't care. Telling someone to "let it go" is pretty cold when you don't have a fucking clue what they've gone through, who they are, or how they go about healing.

I heal at my own rate. I'm healing now. I don't have to listen to what others think because I'm finally learning to trust myself.

[Jamastiene]

26. Exactly,

it is very disheartening to a person who is dealing with extreme pain and in many cases reoccuring spiritual abuse, which complicates the healing process, to hear callous happy go lucky sayings.

[mitchum]

20. In all sincerity, to everyone on this thread...

I am sorry for the hurt done to you. Things will get better.
Love does conquer all.

[Erika]

25. It's the cards we were dealt

You learn to live with it. The big item is that we don't pass this self righteous religious f------ garbage on to our children. I thank God, I did not. I divorced myself form the s----. Where I know they did damage to me, I won't let them proclaim victory and continue their propogation of this religious sickness.

[Ladyhawk]

28. Thanks. I am getting better. :)

It takes time, though. Sometimes lately, I feel a really nice sense of well-being. I've felt it all night tonight. I think it may simply be the fact that I do NOT currently have a migraine. :) I've had them all week.

The first step was to kick the fundies out of my life. I don't feel vengeful toward them, but I remember what they did to me so that I don't let them hurt me again. Ladyhawk doesn't "do" fundies anymore. I have learned to get along with liberal Christians, but fundies are right out! I will never trust a fundy again as long as I live. I was stupid to even try to bridge the gap.

So, my family has been out of my life since November. My counselors say that was a very positive step. Now I am on my way, fundy-free. :) That's the ticket, at least for me. :) :) :) :)

[Erika]

29. Take care

Don't enable them by letting them get you down.

[Jamastiene]

30. My therapist has told me distance

would be a good idea with my family too. I once thought that staying in this area and fighting back would be a good idea, but now I think that is one of the reasons I am having such a hard time healing. I am looking toward a tomorrow where I can call another area of the country home. And although I know fundies exist in most cities in this country, I know that the percentage of fundies to nonfundies is much better in other areas. It's oppressive where I live. Keeps damaging me to have to deal with them. I don't have the luxury of cutting them out altogether at this point in my life unfortunately. And I think that would be the first step toward real healing for me.

[Erika]

31. You have to stud up

and hold true to your own beliefs. I live in one of the most red states in the nation. Healing isn't done through avoidance. It's done through beliefs.

[Jamastiene]

32. That's bullshit

I tried that route and got raped on top of it all. It depends on what kind of people you are dealing with whether or not you can get by with your way. Your way may be working for you, but the truth is every day I spend languishing in this hostile environment is another wasted day. It's pointless to live in a place where not just the majority is like that, but so much the majority that even the ones who say they aren't still are. They aren't worth trying to deal with when they aren't people I would want to spend time with any how. You have to live here to know what these people are like. Trust me. You aren't getting my point because you don't know what this bunch is like.

[Erika]

33. Then move

if you can't stand your environment. Whining and being a perpetual victim does you no good.

[Jamastiene]

35. Once again

you are being impossible and verbally abusive. When it comes right down to it, the only reason I haven't moved is because of the fact that I live in an economically impoverished area where I'm lucky to survive much less save up enough money to move just yet. Trust me, it is on my list of major goals in life, but that doesn't change the fact that the way you are talking is abusive, which goes right back to what I said before. Abusee becomes abuser. Typical.

[Ladyhawk]

34. Yeah, it's tough when you're surrounded by fundies.

The fundy to non-fundy ratio here is not favorable, but I am seeking out people in the Democratic Club, the Peace Group, etc., who might have a more open view of the world.

For me, the first step was cutting my family out of my life, which was impossible until I got affordable housing. I can now afford the rent, which is great, but I saw that ** is cutting section 8 housing. Wonderful. :( I'm hoping it won't affect me.

I'm on disability, currently. My disability was based on depression, but since that diagnosis, I've developed diabetes and some very painful disc herniations in my neck. I'll have to surgery for those very soon because the pain is driving me insane...ARRRGH!

But, if the subsidized housing holds, I should be able to survive for at least awhile without family financial support. I really wanted them out of my life years ago, but couldn't do it. :(

I am hoping that I will get so much better after my surgery that I will be able to do some freelance computer work. After that, if the weed doesn't ruin my plans, I would like to move to the coast. The foothills are SATURATED with fundies. The coast is clear, so to speak. :)

I would like to maintain contact with you because I think we could help each other get over some of this crap. I took step one in November...not so long ago. I think your therapist is right about distancing yourself from your family. For me, that was not financially possible until recently. Then came the straw that broke the camel's back: the election + some inappropriate behavior on the part of my mother. ("Inappropriate Behavior" is my mother's middle name.) I was so out of there. :) It felt (and feels) great, though I do get lonely sometimes.

Let me help you if I can. I won't try to tell you what to do, but I can maybe help you with how I've felt and what makes things easier. :)

(BTW, the "ignore" feature on DU is wonderful. I have used it on a select few who threaten my "zen.")

[Jamastiene]

36. I would love to keep in touch with you.

It certainly sounds like we are in the same boat and have some things in common. Like I said, I find nature to be a great reminder of just how wrong the fundies are and I hold my cats and nature as the dearest things in my life. I get so lonely at time that I feel like I am going out of my mind. It would be great if we could be there for each other. I think what you said about using the ignore function on certain individuals is a good idea. I'm thinking about following your lead. ;)

[Ladyhawk]

40. Why argue when you can stay in your "zen" state? :)

Constructive arguments can lead you to a better understanding of the world, but destructive arguments are not worth your time or consideration.

Private message me anytime. I'd like to get to know you. It sounds like you've been through a lot and need some friends who aren't going to pull the famous "proselytizing act." :) You need someone who won't judge you, but will help you get over some of the horrible things that have happened in your life. It takes time. For some people, it takes a lot of time.

I, too, am lonely now that I've cut my family out of my life. I was lonely before, but in another way. I was also tormented. I felt I had to live my life around my mother in order to stay in her good graces and be given enough money to live on.

That's sad. :( I can't help the fact I'm on Disability right now. I can barely function. Today I was supposed to drive to Fresno to give up one of my birds for adoption...very sad occasion. I couldn't make it because of the migraine I had yesterday. I slept until four...now I'm up at an odd hour, migraine-free.

:shrug:

I'd better not stay up too late, though. I tend to get migraines if I use the computer for too long...something about the position of my neck and the herniated discs. It sucks.

Good night and ruht wohl. :)

[Behind the Aegis]

39. to Ladyhawk and Jamastiene

Through the 'miracle' of DU, it seems you have found one another. Nothing helps the healing process as quickly as having another who "has been there, done that." You both may be able to help one another heal some more. However, word of caution, do not get "too down."

Ladyhawk has some good words..."everyone heals at his/her own pace." This is true of physical wounds, and is VERY true of psychological/emotional wounds! But, just like a physical wound, be careful not to "pick the scab" off, let it fall off naturally. The best that you can do, and it is the hardest, is to be honest with yourself.

I hope that you both continue to work through the pain and emerge stronger for having to endure it!

Ladyhawk, I wish you a safe, productive surgery and may your physical healing be speedy and restful!

[Jamastiene]

41. Thank you

Those are some very kind thoughts. I appreciate it. As a matter of fact, the biggest reason I come to DU is to keep from getting too down. In recent weeks I've had a tougher time than normal and DU has honestly kept me from doing something drastic. Right now this is my life support. There are so many great people here on DU. It keeps me from feeling "surrounded".

Also, I would like to wish Ladyhawk a get well soon wish with the surgery as well as the abuse recovery.

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Tough times!

We all have those damn "tough times!" They are rotten and painful! You ever feel you are going too drastic you call 911 immediately!! But, you ever need to "blow off steam" or vent, you come here! There are many of us here with open hearts, big enough to help others in their time of need! When you are feeling "surrounded" by the crazies, you come here and be "surrounded" by the sane! :) It may not be physical, but it is just as real!!! :hug:

[Jamastiene]

45. Thank you

That is so sweet. I love it on DU. :hug:

[Ladyhawk]

42. Thank you so much! You have some very good insights.

Sometimes when two people share a painful past, they can get buried in the details and pain. I don't intend to get "too down." Some of it needs to be released, but it should not be allowed to fester.

I keep reminding myself to get up and try again. That's so important. The smack-downs always come, but you can get up and try again. It's not over until you're underground.

Honesty is very important to me or I would never have left fundamentalism. I couldn't make myself believe anymore because I honestly looked at the religion and saw it was bogus. :( That's hard when you've based your entire life on a lie. :(

Thanks for the wishes. I go for my MRI on Wednesday...I hope I don't have a migraine that day! One thing that is good for me to remember is that physical pain affects emotional pain and vice versa. If I can rid myself of physical pain, it is more likely I will be able to deal with lingering emotional pain. At least, this is my hope. It makes sense to me.

Peace.

LH

[Behind the Aegis]

44. You are welcome, but don't discount your own insights!

You sound as if you have made some very good progress! And, the smack-downs do come, and you should get back up, but remember there are people out there (and here) who will help you back up!

When you go for your MRI on Wednesday, I will hold a special thought for you that day. But, you have something in your corner...hope! You said; "I hope that...." Let your hope sustain you, at least through the test!!! And, if it (your hope) isn't "cooperating," then perhaps, my good wishes will strengthen what is already there!!!

Willow will think good thoughts too! She is our blue-headed pionus! So,


Willow says....BE WELL!!!

[Ladyhawk]

55. Aw...I love blue-headed pionus. :)

Of course, I love them all. :)

Gabby says hi to Willow. :) Same continent...they're homies. 8)

[izzie]

46. I was told I had a brain and use it. Do not let any Church tell-------

you what to do. We were Unitarian for years and years but I ended up going to a Congressional Church. The whole family were also Republicans.If I recall all those Southern used to be Dem. Can any one figure out what happened to this country?

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

47. Humor helped me to overcome a lot

When I was about 20 years old, I saw a John Waters film for the first time and then I read a book by him about his work. I was amazed at the thought that a person could take their bad childhood experiences and laugh at them and make funny stories about them. That helped to change my whole outlook, I developed a dark kind of humor that made me think differently than I had before. I don't mean I became like a comedian or anything, just a person who could laugh at myself and at experiences. It took the teeth out of a lot of the heaviness.

"Ground into your brain" is a good descriptive term. That's what extreme religion tries to do, I think, program and change your brain. You can program it back.

I found this quote recently by Robert Louis Stevenson:

"To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive."

[Jamastiene]

49. I love that quote

It sounds like RLS found a way to say how I feel about things and explains why I work so hard to keep the fundies from brainwashing me.

[cags]

48. I was raised a fundie, and all that goes with it

I went to church Sunday mornings, Sunday evenings, every weekday because I went to school there, Wednesday evenings, and Saturday for youth group. That was my whole existence. I was beat with wooden spoons, coat hangers, and sometimes had to go out and pick a switch off a tree, you know spare the rod and all. I was an extremely shy and quiet. I used to go to bed at night for years and cry because I was terrified my family members who weren't saved were going to hell. I always felt that something wasn't right though, and I could never get answers to alot of my questions, just have faith because I told you to.

Before my mom found God, my sperm donor was an alcholic who beat my mom, and almost killed her once, I think he might have if I hadn't walked in. We moved around alot because my sperm donor liked to steal so sometimes we had to move quickly in the middle of the night. Then when I was 8 he took off, which actually was a good thing.

When I was about 15 my mom couldn't afford homeschool anymore, so I went to public and Oh my God, what a culture shock that was. You know of course I was taught abstinence is the only way and any other way was not talked about ever. Well I was 16 and pregnant and the church pretty much abandoned me. And guess what my two younger sisters also were pregnant teens too.

I think it took a lot of time and learning to get over the brainwashing. I started studying other faiths and beliefs, and the history of Christianity and came to the conclusion that the true God really was not part of that, I had a bit of a spiritual crisis for awhile. Its not easy to let go of everything you've been taught your whole life. But I got my answers, and now I have a peace and understanding of life that I never had before. Everyone needs to find thier own answers though, no one can tell you them. you just have to really make an effort to seek them out. When you see them you will know.

Now I torture my mom by saying I'm not a christian, and because I know the bible I usually render her speechless without any answer, and she gets all pissed, and I enjoy that. Kind of a payback LOL

You also have to look for the good that came out of it, I believe everything happens to us because we chose to go through certain things and to learn. It has made me a better mother, frankly I'm one of the best mothers I know. Even my 13 yr old thinks she's got the best parents. Thats an accomplishment. I raise my kids to be thinking people and not blind followers. I'm quite proud of them. My daughter can carry on a conversation with any adult, and debate them and win most times. She's very interested in politics and actually spoke at a city council meeting last Tuesday. That was such a proud moment for me because I would have never done that at that age.

To move on you just have to let go and learn new things, don't be bitter it'll only hurt you. Don't be a victim either, take responsibility for your life, it is what you make it, not what your parents told you it should be. There are alot of people in the same boat too. Your childhood years are only a small part of your life, you have the rest of it to create whatever you want it to be.

[Not_Giving_Up]

50. The reason I asked the question in the first place

Is that I was raised by Fundies as well, and there are some things that just won't go away.

Yep, in church Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, and any other time there was something going on.

They had a guy come in and play AC/DC records backwards for the kids to prove there were Satanic messages in them, and then collected all of the secular music to burn. They couldn't get a burn permit, but we weren't given our music back either. I did manage to save a couple of tapes I found in the trash.

Here's some other gems from my childhood:

Sex was absolutely not discussed. You just simply didn't do it until you were married. Imagine my Fundie parents reaction when, at 19, I was indeed pregnant and not married.

Women are to submit to their husbands period. If you don't, then you should have a talk with God, because there's something wrong with you. Your husband is always right, do not ever question him. At a mother-daughter dinner, clothing was discussed. If you're wondering if the clothes you plan to wear are inappropriate for public, here's the test - if it turns your husband on, you should not wear it in public.

Children will stray from the path if you don't beat the crap out of them. The harder you beat them, the better they learn it. I was once black and blue from the back of my neck to my ankles, thanks to my stepdad. My mom would stand by and watch him swinging the belt, not caring where it landed, while he dangled me in the air by one arm. When he was done, she's put Campho-phenique on my bruises to make them go away faster.

There are a lot more, but I only have a short time to be online right now.

Most of the things, I've gotten over. The sex taboos have really stuck around, no matter how hard I try to make them go away. My kids have asked me questions, and refusing to be my mother, I answer them. I don't want them to be as uninformed as I was.

I don't attach to people emotionally. Ever. It sucks, but I don't know how to fix it. I WANT to be able to attach, really, I just can't.

[cags]

51. I remember the backwards records too.

But they weren't mine, because I went to school at church, so I didn't even know who Madonna was until I was 15. I remember going to youth camp where they burned a pile of the kids music, and kids were crying like they had done something great. And the left behind movies, etc. I even used to sew my own clothes because good christian girl clothes were not easy to find in stores.

I also still have a hard time attaching to people. I consider myself quite the loner, and its still not easy for me to make friends. I have been lucky to have a sister I am really close to and I've been with my husband since I was 16. I have one friend I consider a close friend but it is only because she was an extremely nosy neighbor and would not leave me alone. LOL I never associated that with the way I was raised though, I just thought it was my personality, maybe not.

I really have let go of a lot of it though. Even though I feel my mom was so wrong in the way she raised us, I do believe she thought she was doing the right thing. She was brainwashed too. If you can let it go it is so freeing.

I make up for it by being the total opposite of my mother with my kids. They have never been hit, we talk about sex all the time, we talk about everything, Religion, politics, school, my childhood nothing is off limits, they are allowed to question me, and don't have to agree with everything I think, or thier teachers.

I am not passive in my relationship with my husband now. I was at first when I was young, I never fought back in arguments, I rarely voiced my opinion, and did everything he said. Then there was one day I think I just snapped, I really saw myself as my mother just sitting there taking him yelling at me, and it was in that instant I said "No Way" I started screaming and throwing things and kicked the sliding glass door and broke it. It was like all that anger was just pouring out and I was never the same again. You should have seen his face. We are truly equal in our relationship now.

I don't know if you still believe in God or not, being raised a fundie can easily make someone not believe. But I think the fundies just misrepresent God. I am not religious but I am spiritual and do believe in a higher power, and I think truth is in learning. Fundies don't want you to learn, because you may figure out that they are wrong.

I think the key is education, I've learned so much from just reading and have gained an understanding and peace about life. There are a lot of good books that I think have helped me get over it.

One good one is:
The Dark Side of The Light Chasers by Debbie Ford

Talking about it with others who have lived through that helps alot to I think

I just refuse to be a victim of my mother, sperm donor, the church or anything else. My life is what I make it. I am responsible for anything in my life. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger

[Not_Giving_Up]

53. Funny...

I never went to private school at the church. That wasn't a big thing around here when I was younger. My brother, eight years younger, was placed in the church school when he was in second grade because he kept getting beat up at school. Of course, it wasn't that he had no clue how to socialize with the other kids normally, it was because these kids were evil. He switched back to public school went he went into high school. Before it was considered, my mom and stepdad had a conversation with the high school principal about the Zero Tolerance policy, and how strictly it was enforced. They discovered that he had never learned how to write a proper paper. He turned in one giant paragraph, five pages long. Don't get me wrong, he's smart as hell...but they weren't focusing much on academics. He ended up scoring a 1400 on his SATs as a junior, on the first try with no prep.

My stepdad has apologized for fucking up my childhood, and I do believe that he is sincere. He'd never had a kid before, and all of a sudden, he had a seven year old. He's gone through anger management, is a much calmer guy, and I trust him with my children.

My mom, on the other hand, denies that I was ever mistreated in anyway. That's how she deals with things she doesn't like to be associated with, she calls the other person a liar. She is not the most stable person in the world, medically or mentally, and she's not allowed to be alone with my kids. She's also not allowed to drive with them. She's diabetic, and has driven before with low blood sugar. She once hit a curb, blew a tire. She was on her way to church, and had no idea where she was. She drove around on a rim, for what we figured to be 30 minutes or so, then realized she was close to her parent's house, and went there. That was 10 years ago. To this day, she screams at me that I deny her the ability to do everything that she wants to do with my kids because I won't let her drive with them, and I'm not being fair. (My mother in law takes them to the circus and stuff, which my mom can't do without my stepdad driving.)

My stepdad tells me every now and then that my kids need church to have values. Right about then, I'll ask my eleven year old to please explain either Big Bang or Evolution to grandpa. He does, and the church talk stops.

My stepdad also tells me that I should be nice to my mom just because she's my mom. Sorry, I just can't. After my dad left her, she and I moved in with her parents. She decided it was party time, as long as we went to church on Sunday, and left my raising to her parents. Once she married my stepdad, I was turned over to him. When I was 14, I moved in with my mom's parents after I told my stepdad not to hit me, and he told me to get out. My mother signed away her parental rights without a fight. I cannot be nice to her, I consider her nothing more than an incubator. I begged my grandmother to send me to a therapist, but was told that "we solve our problems within the family". Nice way of saying "we don't want other people in our business."

No wonder I'm all screwed up, huh?

[Jamastiene]

54. And "Rapture" by Blondie

The preacher at Temple Christian School in Hamlet where I was forced to get to school until I was in 6th grade had a sermon one Friday morning, every Friday was chapel service, ugh. He played Rapture by Blondie and said it was Satanic even played forward. He played it backward and said she was worshipping the devil. I never ever heard anything when they played records backwards. If you can imagine the moment in Homeward Bound where they put the phone to the dog's ear and he says he can never understand anything they say when they do that. That was exactly what I felt like when they played records backwards and said there was some form of "devil worship" happening. I never heard anything. I still don't get it. Maybe they need medication for that. I know they say if you hear voices, you need medication. How are they allowed to get by without the meds? If you claim it's religion, you get protection from getting treatment. I'll never understand that as long as I live.

[Not_Giving_Up]

56. I remember that on the AC/DC one

They pointed out that you could hear "Here's to my sweet satan, let's go live with satan." Yeah, we all heard it, after they played it five or six times, and told us what we were hearing.

[blondeatlast]

52. Hubby was raised in literal cult in India; Sai Baba.

His problem is while he knows that spirituality can be a good thing, as I consider mine to be, he still bears the deep hatred. Yes, HATRED.

He still bears physical scars and has a deep mistrust of even the most liberal, well-intentioned leaders.

He accepts my spirituality, but wants nothing whatsoever to do with it.