What is love, anyway?

[crispini]

So I can't sleep.... here's this story, in honor of Valentine's Day. Be warned – it's not exactly upbeat. It is, however, true.

About ten years ago I met a guy. The funny thing is, the moment he walked in the room, even though I'd never laid eyes on him before, I recognized him. I looked at him, and something inside me said, "Yes, I know you. I know exactly who you are." Now, I'm not exactly a psychic kind of person -- nothing like that has ever happened before. He and I clicked, I thought, but nothing came of it.

A few months later, by coincidence, I wound up working at the same company that he did. And, interestingly enough, my desk was directly across from his. We saw each other all day, every day. We became friends. He was intelligent and funny. He was outgoing, but in his own outspoken oddball way. He definitely marched to the beat of a different drummer. I was attracted to him, but now that we were co-workers, that seemed like an idea which could go wrong in so many ways, so I didn't say anything and neither did he.

About a year later, he left the company. Long story short, we wound up dating. This guy and I meshed like you would not believe. It was so easy to be with him. He just "got it," you know, he just "got me," and I just "got him." After we'd dated a few months, we had the "future" discussion and there was one problem-- I wanted kids someday and he didn't. But the other 95% of the relationship was like butter. This quirky, smart, amazing guy – we had the same vibe, the same sense of humor. It was more than just being in love with him or being in lust with him. We understood things the same way. There was this kinship, this commonality, this feeling of being the same tribe. We were cut from the same cloth.

This went on for about a year. The 95% was good enough to make me forget about the 5%, most of the time. I mean, did *I* really want kids? I thought so, most days, but who knows? I was young, anyway, there was plenty of time. I didn't worry about it.

And then, one day, he was in a motorcycle accident. He was in a coma for about a week. And then he died.

This was, as I say, a good ten years ago, and I think I'm over it. I've dated since. I've even been in love. But as I sit here and look back over my life, I have never had, not once, before or since, that shock of recognition when I first meet someone. That absolute conviction, "I know you." That feeling that we were cut from the same cloth, that commonality that did not fade but only grew stronger over time.

I've always discounted the whole idea of "soul mates" as a romantic fiction. But the more I think about it, the more I wonder. Compared with romances I've had before and since, this one stands out. And not because of the way it ended, although that might have a lot to do with it. The way it began. With, "I know you."

What do you think? Is the idea of "soul mates" a pretty fiction, or is there some truth there?

[hfojvt]

1. I like the Clint Black song

it says something like "love is not something you fall into. It's something you do."
I ran across this quote in my collection and it cracks me up, in spite, or perhaps because of its deep pessimism.

"Romance is the cheese in the mousetrap of existence that holds you in place until the metal bar of life comes down and snaps your neck in two."

[crispini]

4. Oh, yes, I totally agree.

Been in love before and since, and always gave it its best shot, on its own merit.

This was really different, in a substantial yet undefinable way.

[u4ic]

2. I'm sorry you lost your loved one

:(

I had the exact same feeling when I met my SO. I walked into the room, and I was trying to remember where I knew him from. I 'recognized' him, yet I'd never seen him before.

We didn't talk during that short space of time, but the next time we did, he asked me out. There was something there for him, as well.

That was almost 6 years ago. We've been through a pretty rough ride - me becoming very ill, his own depression during that time, dealing with issues he'd never dealt with before, death in families - but we've learned so much about ourselves and each other in that space of time, more than any of us ever had to face in our lives. And we're both better for it.

So if soul mate means someone who you are to learn from, then, yes, I do believe in them.

[crispini]

5. That's an interesting point.

:hug: Maybe that's part of it, I don't know, the learning part. I certainly learned from all that...

[SarahB]

3. That idea breaks my heart.

I have had one man and one experience where I instantly connected with someone and he to me. We tried to forget each other at one time because it wasn't right for us. Later, we tried to have something, but due to his fears and his repeated inactions, I have recently had to try to let go of this. I wish I just never knew this was possible. I don't know how I'm ever supposed to forget him. It would be nice for him to just say, "Sarah, I don't want to lose you. I'll do what it takes now." and just not be afraid to shout that out to the world. I can't pretend anymore that he will. :(

Happy Valentine's Day!

[crispini]

7. It's uncanny, isn't it?

I just don't know what I am supposed to do with this now I have experienced it. I don't believe it's necessary to feel that way in order to love someone or even be in love with someone or to have a good relationship. And, at the time, while we were coworkers, it was necessary for me to repeatedly forget about it because it looked like it was never going to happen -- I even dated someone else during that time period.

But you're right, I *almost* wish I didn't know it was possible, because now I don't entirely know how to approach relationships. I mean, this one came with a Big Flashing Neon Sign that said, "HE'S IMPORTANT." And I am not the most intuitive or psychic person in the world, it was just obvious beyond belief.

So now, when I meet someone, and there's no "sign" around his neck.... it's hard to know what to do....

[Beware the Beast Man]

6. Thanks for the Howard Jones earworm.

:grr:

[Coventina]

10. hey! That's a good song!

:spank:

[stellanoir]

8. sorry for your loss. . .

Somebody evoked this rambling diatribe out of me last week. Some of it may or may not apply to you and your situation. He was whining about a lost love.

He wrote. . .

> , and of talk of "soul mates" etc, I believe
> that this one may have been it...

>There was just absolutely something electric the first time she and I met...
>it remains in my mind as clear as if it were yesterday, and EVERYONE around
>us noticed this...

Here's my response. . .

This is of course pure speculation about that particular phenomenon. . .Having dedicated a boat load of time to counseling folks about the total mystery of interpersonal dynamics, I've heard many speak of and met some pairs of presumed soul mates. I do believe that they do indeed truly exist and in some cases, actually get to be together. But considering the types of experiences I've observed I don't believe it's always a situation of absolution. There are also soul connections where people are drawing from the same oversoul. That's kind of like an etheric tribe or collective, represented by what is conventionally referred to as an Archangel or some other larger than life entity. I always recognize those folks with whom I'm connected in that regard, even if I don't ever interact with them personally. That's a deep soul connection but not necessarily a soul mate. Those are more than likely, the root cause of the dynamic of "hero worship" (aka idolatry) as well.

Though soul connections are eternal on the spiritual plane they can often be transitory in terms of shared purpose on the physical plane. This oftentimes results in a holy host of confusion. The ruse of becoming whole through another when one hasn't arrived at wholeness within themselves can of course be utterly tragic. I personally blame Disney (not the Cathars) for this.

There are also twin flames. Sometimes the energy between two of those is so intense they can't even be around each other much or for very long. It varies wildly though. Whirlwind romances that end as suddenly as they began can occur between them, leaving both parties completely baffled wondering,"what the heck was that?" They can also be of the same gender.
The obtuse 30 year cat and mouse saga of myself and my twin flame would make your head spin so I'll spare you. Suffice it to say that I always used to joke that "we shared same brain" but held totally incompatible short term motivations and priorities.

Just babbling here 'cause I don't want you to feel as though the kind of thing you experienced with this woman was necessarily an occasion of singularity. I know from droves of anecdotal evidence, that if this woman was truly your soul mate, you probably wouldn't have lost touch with her. She was probably either a very deep soul connection or perhaps a twin flame. Reunited twin flames invariably conduct a tremendous amount of energy and that may be why their physical connection can often either over amp or burn out. It's very simply, very hard to channel and ground an identical energy on a plane of duality.

Understand that there are innumerable half baked theories out there on this subject. This is just MY current half baked take on it and like any opinion is subject to change on a dime. And yes. . . I do realize that all of this may sound terribly convoluted but that is what tends to happen when anyone tries to describe "interdimensional" energies in a non dogmatic way.

So there.

[crispini]

11. Interesting take.

You write: "The ruse of becoming whole through another when one hasn't arrived at wholeness within themselves can of course be utterly tragic." -- This is what to me is so interesting about that whole time... there wasn't any kind of sense of "completion" or of "you make me whole." I totally agree with you that our task is to first know ourselves and become whole and happy in ourselves. That was what was so weird to me about this relationship... I keep saying "cut from the same cloth" but it really says it very well... a recognition on a very deep level that we are in some sense of the same substance.

You write "if this woman was truly your soul mate, you probably wouldn't have lost touch with her." I hope that's true -- I hope that we don't lose them. I don't particularly want to feel that this was an occasion of singularity, but the way this whole relationship happened, what with the instant feeling of kinship, and then the series of things that "just happened" that made the relationship possible.... it just felt like destiny, in a way that no relationship before or since has.

[stellanoir]

27. Well once one experiences

that level of interconnectedness it's kind of hard to settle for more superficial means of relating.

Trust me it can happen more than once. I've experienced it at least eight times and with each encounter it seems to intensify in very different ways.

Just don't settle for less.

[Freebird12004]

9. Soul Mates, Twin Flames, Soul Cluster

Yes ! I believe that we do have Soul Connections.

When you are out in public places - on rare occasions you will feel an odd attraction or a feeling of recognition to a stranger. That may-be one of your soul-buddies.

I was 54 before I met my soul-mate. Being with him truly changed my life ~ so ~ yes, I learned much from him before he walked out of my life 2 years, 2 month and 7 days ago.

Others in my soul cluster feel my loss, my pain of missing him, even today, because I'll never stop loving him. They tell me that we have more than one soul mate. I've dated since our break-up but I would rather be alone if I can't find that same feeling again.

[crispini]

13. I totally understand your last sentence.

I try not to feel the same way, but sometimes I do. And I understand it completely. Sometimes I just think I'm over-romanticizing this relationship. And I have certainly loved people before and since, and been in good relationships. But, man, once you've been with someone who "gets you" on that level... :shrug:

[Freebird12004]

22. Together ~ we were one with the universe

I truly never knew any feeling like that. There were hours of total tranquility, the world was far more beautiful to me ~ when he was by my side. :shrug: I used to send him long emails about the colors of the sunrise, the first bird of my morning, the beauty of the bare-trees in the light of the full moon. Now, I enjoy those special things a little less and that saddens me too.

[Aristus]

12. What is love?

Baby don't hurt me,
Don't hurt me
No more

What is love?
Baby don't hurt me,
Don't hurt me
No more

Bom-bom-bom-bom-bom-BOM-bom-bom-bom-bom-BOM

Can we get a head-jerk smilicon?

:silly::crazy::silly::crazy:

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

14. I thought of this song when I saw the title of this thread too. n/t

[no name no slogan]

53. Geez, thanks for the earworm

I must repay the favor

Skyrockets in flight, afternoon delight...

[Schema Thing]

15. I used to resist the idea of "soul mates"

But the older I get, the more I see, the more I'm open to the idea.

We are all such a complex mishmash of thought, sub-concious thought, and emotion, that it makes sense that some of us are going to "click" with each other MUCH better than with others. And might there be physical things, like phermones, that add or subtract from that "clicking"? Seems likely.

The only caveat I think might be wise in this, is to question whether the "first sight" effect really has that much to do with it. I won't get into the whys of how that could fool a person (I think that's obvious about the present and our memories are notoriously partisan about the past) but I'd hate to think that very many of us miss out on our soul mates just because we're distracted that day, and our spidey sense wasn't working 100%.

Very sorry for your loss, Crispin. It sounds like you had something wonderful.

[crispini]

18. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

that are dreamt of in your philosophy." Isn't life weird?

:toast: Slainte!

[redqueen]

16. No I don't think it's necessarily fiction.

I've had that feeling before, and it was wonderful and terrifying.

Glad you got to experience it. :)

[crispini]

19. It's interesting how many people

have had a similar experience.

[bettyellen]

31. she's right it can be terrifying. i had one of those and

it was downright scary. all the time when i picked up the phone to call him , he was already there calling me, but the phone hadn't rung yet.
he travelled a lot and we'd both be writing letters at the same time, writing about the same things. he read my mind so often and vice versa that we stopped feeling like seperate people. I'm still not sure that's a good thing. but for a time, it was amazing. i never laughed so often in my life. it was hard to let it go.

[crispini]

32. Wow, that's amazing.

Ok, that's kind of above and beyond even what this guy and I had I think. We never stopped feeling like separate people. Just .... of the same tribe, somehow....

[bettyellen]

34. it flipped me out becasue my mom was pretty psychic...

i started doing my own laundry because she would get images/ ideas of what i was up to when she'd handle my things.
yet without the psychic impressions, she was really clueless.
so, i really was not sure i wanted to be reading anyones mind. that's not a blessing in my book.

[crispini]

35. That stuff just blows me away.

I know enough people who are sensitive to realize that there's something to it, but I'm so damn grounded that I really don't pick those vibes up at all. I think I'm kinda jealous of that skill, not having it myself.

Once a friend of mine went over to a mutual friend's new house (well, newly purchased house, but a previously owned home) and went into the bathroom and saw blood all over the walls. That wasn't there. :scared:

We didn't tell the new homeowner..... She would have been totally freaked out. Funny thing the friend who saw the vision is, like me, totally grounded and not really a "sensitive" at all....

[bettyellen]

38. it wasn't really pleasant, she foresaw mostly bad things

that did happen and it made her worry all the time.
it was pretty strange to see her get an impression though. it was kind of like a shock, but that she heard something too.

[crispini]

41. Did she ever read tarot or do other things like that?

It just fascinates me.

[bettyellen]

47. nope, she had dreams... i'll have to pm you .....

[bettyellen]

48. ohhh deja vu. ha ha ha.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

17. Wow..........................

First off, sorry for your tragic experience.

I don't know if I believe in "soul mates" per se, but I do believe that there are folks out there that you intuitively click with. It happened to me about a year or so ago. She was this really cool girl from Ontario, who was dating a co-worker (and a guy I consider a friend). She and I completely clicked. Over the 3 months I got to know her, she and I became very close. I shared things with her that I never would have shared with my long-time ex-girlfriend when we were together. Like your experience, this girl seemed to shine out as something special. Long story short, the end of the project came, and we hugged for a long time, said our goodbyes, and she then caught me completely by surprise: she told me she loved me.

A year and a half later, we have only shared a few emails and I have no idea what she's up to these days. But despite our lack of contact, I take comfort that there is a soul out there who loved me for who I was.

Does that answer your question?

[crispini]

20. Yes. That's a neat take on it,

friends instead of taking it to the romantic level.

Maybe it's like snowflakes... people are all so very very different, but sometimes you meet one that's kind of a match, so to speak.

It's not really about romantic love, is it? In some cases (like yours) it's got nothing to do with romantic love.....

[CrownPrinceBandar]

24. Yes and no...............................

I think there was a palpable sense of romance between this girl and I. However, I think her relationship with my buddy provided a buffer that allowed us to share personal things with each other without all of the emotional baggage that comes with budding romances.

But, to be honest, if romance would have been an option, I would have jumped. She had the IMPORTANT sign that you saw, floating around her. In some ways it still hurts to have someone you completely identified with so close, but still untouchable.

Anyway. Chin up, have a great day! :hi:

[crispini]

25. Yeah, I think that's the weirdest thing of all, isn't it?

That "THIS PERSON IS IMPORTANT" sign. And I am SO not psychic!

You have a great day too! :hi: I'm actually not as, um, down-in-the-mouth about it all as this thread might have it appear... more philosophical, ya know?

Cheers!

[CrownPrinceBandar]

26. I can totally identify........................

"philosophical" is my normal state of being!


:silly:

[Az]

21. Like unweaving the rainbow telling you what love is

would do nothing to describe the experience of it. Suffice to say that love comes from trust and if you do not truly know a person then you are just infatuated with them. The mind can make all sorts of assumptions and drop all its usual guards because some individuals trigger memories and other inner notions. But really getting to know the person is what makes all the difference in the world.

Keep in mind that most of how we communicate is visual. How we dress and present ourselves. Our motions and habits. All are information that our brain takes in. It conveys to us a sense of understanding of the person we are looking at. It may simlpy be that some people strike just the right chord with this communication and allows some to let their guard down. And this creates a fast route to trust which in turn can lead to love.

No there is not one person out there perfect for each person. There are many people out there perfect for each person. We are too complex to be able to find love with only one person. It so happens that the first experience of love is often defining in our minds and every one after that is compared to it. Many people experience first love only to find greater love later in life.

[sundog]

23. How do you say de-lovely, de-lectable, how do you say de-vine?

[redqueen]

28. Sing it, baby!

:hi:

[sundog]

29. happy v-day rq

:hug:

[redqueen]

30. Awwww, you too, sundog. :)

:hug:

[Bunny]

33. That IMPORTANT sign does flash at times, doesn't it?

I truly believe that. Sorry about your experience, it is indeed sad. I've never been a psychic person either, but I do believe in spirit groups. I think that he was here to help you learn some valuable lesson about life, and it's up to you to figure out what that lesson is.

When I look back at all the significant relationships that I've had, both romantic and platonic, each one came with that flashing *IMPORTANT* sign.

[Az]

36. With all the communication that goes on visibly

Psychic communication seems to be the hard way of going about it. I mean do people really stop to consider all the information we convey in a nonverbal manner? Just stop and look around some time. People are practically shouting. You just have to take the time to notice.

[Bunny]

37. That is true. Most of us are so preoccupied with our lives that we don't

notice the non-verbal stuff.

[crispini]

40. I think the psychic stuff is connected with the non-verbal stuff,

you know, when you think you're picking up stuff you're really just being very good at reading that person.

And I really am starting to wonder, now, what he had to teach me.... I'm not sure I could articulate that with any clarity yet... hmm......

[Az]

46. Visual language does not necissarily translate

to verbal language. There may be things we pick up from observing others that we simply cannot articulate in words. Its just something our mind observes and makes note of. Gives us a sense of the person without us being able to say where or what it is.

[crispini]

49. Exactly. And a lot of times if we're not interpreting

those cues on a conscious level they could be seen as "psychic" feelings when in reality they're grounded in that nonverbal language...

[billyskank]

39. Love is

when you want to serve someone, do something for them, anything that will please them, and if they want to repay the favour you honestly don't want anything in return. Their pleasure is your reward.

When you find yourself completely absorbed twenty-four hours a day in thinking about that person, know that you are in love.

[crispini]

42. Howso is that different from obsession, twenty-four hours a day

thinking of someone? Sounds kinda creepy to me....

[billyskank]

43. Well, fair enough.

Each to their own.

[crispini]

44. I was just asking.....

I'm tryin' to figure something out here... and prevailing on DU to help me do it. :P Seriously, how do you think it's different?

[kwassa]

45. This type of attraction isn't always a healthy one

I have that shock of recognition, too, but it is more the shock of interacting with someone who might not be right for me, but definitely knows how to push my excitement buttons.

I know that 12-steppers have talked about walking into a room and seeing the person that is exactly wrong for them across the room and heading right for them.

I have also had powerful attractions to women who were not available because they were already in a committed relationship, and I know that they felt the attraction, too. We didn't act it out (except once, though, which became a real disaster all around). This is called "being an adult", as unfun as that sounds.

But, having found my life mate, or pretty sure that we'll be together for life, I will have to say that I don't think that there is a single soul mate out there for each person, nor should there be. There are, on the other hand, powerful natural attractions which I've experienced a half dozen times over the past 30 years, with gaps between them. They can be the very best, or the very worst basis for a relationship.

[crispini]

51. Well, that's good to know.

I guess one should always be wary....

[HEyHEY]

50. Indifference

To the person always being around.

[crispini]

52. Hmmmmm...... nt

[crispini]

54. The Hill

Rupert Brooke

Breathless,we flung us on the windy hill,
Laughed in the sun, and kissed the lovely grass.
You said, "Through glory and ecstasy we pass;
Wind, sun, and earth remain, the birds sing still,
When we are old, are old..." "And when we die
All's over that is ours; and life burns onn
Through other loves, other lips,' said I,
"Heart of my heart, our heaven is now, is won!"

"We are Earth's best, that learnt her lesson here.
Life is our cry. We have kept the faith!" we said;
"We shall go down with unreluctant tread
Rose-crowned into the darkness!" ... Proud we were,
And laughed, that had such brave true things to say.
-- And then you suddenly cried, and turned away.

[Floogeldy]

55. LOVE IS A FUCKING DISEASE AND DELUSION

Sex is much better.

[Az]

56. No its not

:P

[SarahB]

57. I wonder if you're right.

Just keep it very simple. Emotions are for the otherwise unencumbered I think.

[Floogeldy]

60. You got me thinking . . .

[BikeWriter]

58. I followed the topic to post something sarcastic. I can't....

...All I can say is I'm sorry you lost that chance, but don't let that cause you to miss another. The reason I was going to post something sarcastic is because my "Soul Mate" and "Forever Love" divorced me a couple of years ago. Her love for me changed, but my love didn't. Her reality was wrong, mine was true.
Hang in there, Lady, and keep your eyes and your heart open. I wish you the best of life and of love.

[crispini]

63. thanks!

:toast: To .... the future. :)

[BikeWriter]

66. To the future ... and no more lonely Valentine Days. :-)

[Bouncy Ball]

59. When I met my husband and we started telling each other

the story of our lives thus far, his story sounded so damn familiar. But there was no way I could have known it. He grew up an Army brat, all over the world. I grew up in the same dinky suburb my whole life.

He felt like me. I felt like him.

To explain it makes it sound SO damn corny. So I rarely do.

Love is checking the moles on the other person's back.

Tee hee.

[crispini]

64. Hi Bouncy!

yeah.... it does sound so weird when you start talking about it, doesn't it?

peace...

[shesemsmom]

61. I believe in soul mates

My first Hubby was just as you said, you knew him right away. He died a year after we married but he is still my soul mate. My Hubby now understands that and we are bond other ways very close, just not the same. He was my first Hubby's best friend

[crispini]

67. Yes, you said it all in two sentences.

There's love, and then there's this other thing, which is related to love, but different....

[shesemsmom]

68. We have similar goals

and the other thing too. lolWe do love each other or would not be together 20 plus years though

[Amaya]

62. Love is all ya need

right?:shrug:

[SarahB]

65. How about...

"She Loves You", knucklehead

You think you lost your love
When I saw her yesterday
It's you she's thinking of
And she told me what to say
She says she loves you
And you know that can't be bad
Yes, she loves you
And you know you should be glad

She said you hurt her so
She almost lost her mind
And now she says she knows
You're not the hurting kind
She says she loves you
And you know that can't be bad
Yes, she loves you
And you know you should be glad, ooh

She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
And with a love like that
You know you should be glad

You know it's up to you
I think it's only fair
Pride can hurt you too
Apologize to her
Because she loves you
And you know that can't be bad
Yes, she loves you
And you know you should be glad, ooh

She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah
With a love like that
You know you should be glad
With a love like that
You know you should be glad
With a love like that
You know you should be glad
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

SarahBelle's been listening to too much Beatles tonight. :silly: