i missed the west wing tonight! what happened????

[pres2032]

[bookman]

1. Santos...

in NH forced top two candidates to debate 5 minor candidates by going live for a commercial and talking right into the camera.

No Alan Alda or Martin Sheen.

[pres2032]

5. awsome! thanks!

[Not_Giving_Up]

2. Remember "Let Bartlett be Bartlett"?

This was "Let Santos be Santos" night. They didn't say it of course, but it was definitely there. Matt Santos for Prez!

[pres2032]

4. sweet!

i'm all for him as pres!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. Nothing

The show has sucked this season. And not in that fun, friendly way.

Unless Martin Sheen and the West Wing bunch are on, this story line with Santos and the Veep is just so boring, I lasted about five minutes watching it.

It's dying a slow death. Too bad.

[Not_Giving_Up]

8. You should have stayed with it!

You missed Donna telling off a guy in a chicken suit that got plastered all over every news broadcast (including CNN), and you missed Santos finally showing Josh that he's ready and he means business. The donations are pouring in!

[Merope215]

9. Yeah, but Toby and Josh

are going to be in a fistfight next week, or so it seems. My money's on Toby. But you're right, the show's gone way downhill. My roommates and I are working through seasons 1-3 on DVD, and the difference in quality is really striking.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. Jumping the shark

The show took off over the shark when they introduced the MS story line, I think. After that, it's been downhill.

I grieve.

[Merope215]

16. Yeah, you're right

but I still have to say that the finale for season 2 was probably the best hour of TV I've ever seen. The finale of the third season was also really good, but mostly only because Allison Janney is such a fabulous actor. After Sorkin left, it really hit the fan. It's so depressing, when I think about it, that they have to resort to a fistfight to get people to watch.

I also have trouble telling Hoynes and Russell apart. Is that a problem? :P

[pres2032]

20. definitely agree with that

there have been some good moments since he left. I loved "the supremes" with Glen Close and William Fitchner debating. I like the campaign episodes too and Martin sheen is nailing the emotion in dealing with his MS. If anything, season 6 is up to season 4 standards.

[Merope215]

23. I think you're right

I didn't really see much of season 5, but I think 4 and 6 are about the same quality. I feel like it peaked in season 2 - the dialogue just hasn't been as good as all that witty repartee that was really the best part of the show. It makes me sad. I'm such a fanatic, though, that I'll watch the show until it goes off the air.

Let me just mention, though, that now that Donna doesn't work for Josh anymore, there's really no reason why they shouldn't be having sex. Both of them have clearly wanted to for, what, 5 years now? :evilgrin:

[pres2032]

24. yeah, seasons 1 and 2 will never be touched

by future seasons, or any other tv show. ever. Sorkin was incredible those seasons. 3 was pretty good too, then there's a huge drop from 3 to 4-6.

who knows about donna and josh. sometimes it looks like they are about too, then the next episode it will be like there is nothing between them.

i'm a fanatic too and will definitely watch the rest of the episodes until the final end.

[Not_Giving_Up]

25. I predict Donna jumps ship

She was defending Santos in a meeting with Will and the VP.

[pres2032]

26. nice, i hope she does

she deserves to be with a good candidate and with Josh.

[Merope215]

35. She's been acting like a wench lately

I want her to get her act together, though, because I really like her. I hope you're right.

[pres2032]

36. i was just watching 'shadow of two gunmen' yesterday

and she was asking josh why the campaign couldn't be about hope and finding yourself and bingo bob is definitely not about hope. santos is.

[Merope215]

37. damn, "shadow of two gunmen" was SO GOOD

I love in Part 1 when Toby finds Josh shot behind the planter - it's gruesome, but it's so intense. Also, the editing in those episodes is fantastic...I miss Aaron Sorkin. You're totally right about Santos though. I think she'll jump ship, too - she's not really political in the way the others are, and she always came across as more idealistic than a lot of them.

[pres2032]

40. definitely, the first 10 minutes are intense!

both "gunmen" episodes are great. I especially love the flash backs and CJ's press conference where she lists all the gun crimes.

I definitely miss how Donna, sam, and others were so idealistic early on the show. We definitely need a return of that and it ceritanly sounds like Santos may bring that back.

[Merope215]

28. I was wondering about that too

Seriously, I love how I talk about these people like they're real. :P But I thought that was really interesting. Plus, I really want her to get with Josh. That episode a couple of weeks ago in the hotel, where they kept thinking about knocking on each other's doors but wouldn't do it, was KILLING me!

[pres2032]

30. wow! so i'm not the only one!

hehe, those people are certianly real to me and those actors will forever be known as their characters on the west wing!

hehe, i thought at the end of that episode that we were going to see donna in bed with Josh.

[Not_Giving_Up]

31. No, you're not the only one

I thought after Donna survived the bombing they would hook up for sure...but again, nope! I hope she jumps ship. She the REAL candidate in the speech Santos gave.

[Merope215]

32. I know, right?

When they had that final shot of him getting his wake-up call, I was hoping so much that the camera would pan out and there would be a blond head on the pillow next to him. I can't tell you how disappointed I was when he was sleeping alone.

And I really can't separate the actors from their roles either. Did you see "The Hours"? Allison Janney played Meryl Streep's lover, but every scene she was in, I was just chuckling to myself, thinking, "Yeah, CJ finally got some!"

We should have T-shirts made, or something. It's the only break with the reality-based community I have any interest in making on a regular basis. :)

[pres2032]

34. hey, that's a great idea! west wing fanatic t-shirts!

hehe, especially since i'm wearing a west wing shirt now!

she is definitely CJ in "ten things i hate about you" too. hehe, now you know what CJ is doing whenever you see her typing! :P

[Merope215]

38. wow, i'm so glad there's more than one of us out there

I swear, "West Wing" is the only show I watch with any regularity, but I think my fascination with it borders on the obsessive. I'm so glad you're like this too! My roommates and I use it like a drug when we've had a bad day. Plus, it helps me pretend that Bush isn't really the president; it's all a bad dream, and soon it will all go away...

[pres2032]

39. hehe, oh yeah, i'm right there too

I was watching "election night" a while ago and got seriously excicted when Bartlet won, even though i knew it was coming. Seeing a democrat win by a landslide was so great and exhilerating to watch. hehe, i've already started working on my own script of the west wing of what i want its final episode to be. heh, though of course that was before everyone split up and changed positions. I'm also directing "17 people" in an independent theater festival.

[Merope215]

43. No way!

You're directing "17 People"??? That's one of the coolest things I've ever heard! Where's the festival? How are you going to stage it?

[pres2032]

46. hehe, yes way!

yeah, i found the script online and adapted it to play. the College theater department here holds an independent festival for anyone to submit plays or other acts to be performed. Anyone can do it, but i think i'm the only non-theater major in it. I've always wanted to put up a west wing episode and 17 people is definitly the best one.

due to limited resources, i had to cut the correspondents dinner speech scenes and just use the Toby plot. I wanted originally to do "somebody's going to emergency..." but there's too many scene changes and too many different characters for such a small festival. The way its going is great. I managed to get the best theater person at the college to be bartlet and i found a perfect toby as well. I can't wait for mid-march when we get to perform it for everyone. I'll definitly keep you informed on how it goes! :-)

[madison2000]

47. This is the story line that never happens

instead of Josh and Donna having sex we get the ex-girfriend licking an ice cream cone and donna arguing with a chicken...

[pres2032]

48. haha, sad but true

we can dream, can't we?

[iamjoy]

21. The MS Was Okay

I think it jumped the shark when Bartlett's daughter was kidnapped.

But I am hanging in there because with Dubya in the White House it helps keep me sane.

[Not_Giving_Up]

14. You have to wonder

Does Josh go to the WH and try to get Toby to go with him? I could see Toby getting all fired up about his dedication to Bartlett and the fight ensues.

[question everything]

10. Oh, I don't know. I think that Santos is written after Kerry to some

degree. Here is a brilliant man who refuses to be confined to sound bites and negative campaigning, frustrating campaign workers and losing potential voters.

I wish that Kerry did something similar and talked quickly and directly beyond his handlers.

[zann725]

41. I agree. I use to be a loyal fan...back in the "Let Bartlett be.." days.

I can no longer watch it. I'm loyal to my leaders (and my favorite writer/producers). And without Bartlett (and Sam Seaborn), I'm just not interested in the show any more. And without Aaron Sorkin on board, the story lines and scripts suck. They try and "copy" his style, but there's just no comparison. I keep hearing all the "wrong notes." And it's like a piano or guitar out of tune...
No thanks.

[iamjoy]

6. Don't Forget The Chickens

That was the humor in it.
Some newspaper was sponsoring a debate but only wanted Hoynes and Russell in it, because the other five supposedly weren't viable.

Santos campaign tried to get Russell to help them get into the debate and have a real debate, not politicians giving canned answers and avoiding the question asked.

When Santos was shut out, Josh came up with this campaign to imply that Hoynes & Russell were chicken. They had guys dress up in chicken costumes to heckle Russell and Hoynes. The chicken guy shows up at a Russell appearance and Donna gets caught on camera scolding the chicken and chasing him away.

That was the comedic break.

Oh, and Santos hired Amy Gardner for debate prep

[pres2032]

11. hah! sweet

damn, i wish i had seen it then!

[question everything]

15. Which, of course, could never happen. The "spoils" of a V.P.

is that he is surrounded by secret service and others cannot just walk from the street.

I remember in 1988 when the field was wide open and there were about 7 from each party, but papa Bush could not be approached thanks to the Secret Service, and this was before the Patriot Act.

[iamjoy]

19. They Said They Scanned Him

it was mentioned very briefly.
Still, I can't imagine them letting something like that big costume in, too hard to scan, too easy to hide something.

It's television, not reality.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. They hired two guys to dress as chickens and go to photo ops and

challenge the top two candidates as being too chicken to face the other five candidates.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

13. That's a story line?

Oh, man, I missed nothing.

That's pathetic.

[Not_Giving_Up]

17. The big moment came at the end

Santos scrapped the commercial that was shot, it was awful. He went to TV station and did his ad live, unscripted. One minute of him saying what he stands for, not him smearing the other guy. The phones were ringing off the hook, the money's coming in now.

[pres2032]

18. that's awsome

[OldLeftieLawyer]

22. Corny

That's so predictable and "heroic" and corny.

The first three or four seasons were great because they were based on reality.

Now, it's just Hollywood cliches.

[question everything]

27. The first seasons were during the Clinton Administration

so at least we could believe in the thinking but since Bush took office I can just watch and wish that this was true.

Plus, like any other program, at some point the writers are running out of new, fresh ideas.

[zann725]

42. The other writers "are no Aaron Sorkin." And it shows.

Watching a Sorkin script was like listening to a superb symphony, or savoring a fine wine.

Now it's just "clever."

[Merope215]

44. True.

I imagine the mushrooms might have helped. :evilgrin:

[welshTerrier2]

29. when President Bartlett woke up

it turned out the whole business about owning an inn in Vermont was all just a dream ...

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Borgnine]

45. This show is my crack.

I can't stand the post-Sorkin episodes. I miss the banter. I miss the humor. I miss the unapologetic liberalism. I miss the weird tangents the characters go off on. I'm pissed that John Wells decided to skip an entire year of the Bartlet Administration in order to get to the campaign episodes (it's called "The West Wing," not "The Campaign Trail").

That being said, I can't stop watching. Oh, I'll bitch and moan, but I'm glued to my set every Wednesday night. And every Monday night for the marathons on Bravo. And every evening at 7 PM for the regular airings on Bravo. Oh, and I also pop in my DVDs every now and then. It's without a doubt one of my favorite shows of all time and my current obsession. Despite what some say, I loved season four (but maybe that's just in comparison to season five), and one of the things that bugs me now is what they're done to the character of Will. The way Sorkin wrote him, he was a worthy enough replaced for Sam Seaborn, but now he's become some weasily villian who's trying to get into Donna's pants. What?

[DrGonzoLives]

49. Sorkin is talented

but his writing does start to get stale after a while. No one is that witty and charming in casual conversations all the time.

[question everything]

50. If you have cable, you do know that Bravo carries it almost every day n/t

[Lisa]

51. I think they're still using footage from Dundas, Ontario!

(within sight of my parents' house)

Some of the cast went there a few months ago to film "New Hampshire" footage. I thought they'd already aired it all, but some of the locations in this ep sure looked familiar. Plus there was a Shoppers' Drug Mart in the background shot, and I'm pretty sure they aren't in New Hampshire!

Great. Now I'm homesick.