Christopher Guest: Go Directly to Comedy Jail!

[Kire]

I sat through a good chunk of "A Mighty Wind", and I didn't even crack a smile for twenty minutes.

Earlier tonight, I read a review for "Son of the Mask" by Roger Ebert, and it definitely applies here:

One of the foundations of comedy is a character who must do what he doesn't want to do, because of the logic of the situation. As Auden pointed out about limericks, they're funny not because they end with a dirty word, but because they have no choice but to end with the dirty word -- by that point, it's the only word that rhymes and makes sense. Lucille Ball made a career out of finding herself in embarrassing situations and doing the next logical thing, however ridiculous.

On "Son of the Mask", which I think also applies to Christopher Guest's latest films, Ebert says:

"It is all mania, all the time; the behavior in the movie is not inappropriate, shocking, out of character, impolite, or anything else except behavior."

More: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050217/REVIEWS/50203007

I sat through a good chunk of "A Mighty Wind", and I didn't even crack a smile for fifteen minutes.

Sure, they do whacky things, but they're not funny things. It is a fake world, a simulacrum, a mirage, a lie. I hate lies. They're so dishonest.

I don't know why anybody really likes these movies. They are adored so much, and that makes me worry for the state of our country.

And please don't tell me that I'm the one who needs to "lighten up" and "not take everything so seriously". These movies are pure anarchy, and they are more painful than funny. If comedy has rules, call me the comedy fascist. Wit has rules. Levity has rules. Humor has rules. Satire has rules. And Christopher Guest follows none of them.

It just makes me think of all of the productive things I could have been doing with my short time on this planet than watching this. The only thing good I can see that comes out of it, is that it lets me write this post, and hopefully meet some interesting, genuinely funny people who agree with me. You may say that I have to accept that there are going to be people in this world who you don't agree with. That is true. But, I do accept that, and I do accept them. I really do. I just don't think they're funny, and I don't want to invite them over for a movie.

[Eric J in MN]

1. They should have gotten Rob Reiner to direct, instead.

I think "A Mighty Wind" is worth seeing for fans of folk music, but there are too many jokes repeated.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[K8-EEE]

2. A Mighty Wind Is My Favorite Movie!!

I saw it like five times -- I loved loved loved it.

One thing about it though is maybe you have to have some appreciation, even affection for the subject (folk musicians) to really "get" it. Love that whole ensemble and Fred Willard as usual just slayed me in that movie.

[enigmatic]

3. Me too!

Another hysterical movie; Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara as Mitch and Mickey were unforgettable; I even learned how to play "A Kiss At The End Of the Rainbow" on guitar just for the heck of it..

[Kire]

5. no offense, but why?

are you setting yourself up for a personal attack here? Am I going to be a big bad brute if I ask you that?

So you love it, because you love the subject it's about, but what is it about the subject that makes you love it?

I guess you could say I "love" Folk music, but what does that mean anyway? I said I loved lots of women in college, but I didn't. I was just using that as a trick to do something unforgivable.

[K8-EEE]

56. How Can You "Explain" What Makes You Laugh?

I laughed my head off during the whole movie -- the back stories of the musician characters, the album covers, the PBS style "reunion" show, the anxiety-riddled producer guy, I just thought they were funny!

You're not a big bad brute for asking for an "explanation" but I'm not going to wear myself by trying to "explain" comedy/humor. It either works for you or it doesn't. My husband & the two friends we saw it with all raved too.

I also liked Best In Show, and Waiting For Guffman. I love Christopher Guest, I think he's hilarious.

[jonnyblitz]

67. one of the funniest movies i ever saw....

:thumbsup:

[nankerphelge]

4. It's awesome

too bad you don't get his stuff.

[Kire]

6. what is there to get?

I'm not in with the "in crowd"?

What's the key to the door to this exclusive club?

Edit: uh oh, this thread is going to be locked, isn't it?

[Blue-Jay]

8. Do not blaspheme Mr Guest in my presence.

He's hilarious.

[Kire]

9. edited

wow, I was going to blaspheme your mother instead, but I got the feeling that the mods wouldn't take kindly to that kind of thing

[Blue-Jay]

10. dayum.

Yo mama so fat, she has three zip codes.

[Kire]

11. Christopher Guest is so stupid....

...he made "Best in Show" and THEN he made "A Mighty Wind".

Edit: Is Dayum in the dictionary?

[terrya]

18. Yes. Christopher Guest is a comedic genius.

One reason is a stock cast he's had in his films...including some people who have been in all three of his films...Catherine O'Hara, Eugene Levy, Fred Willard...and Christopher Guest himself. These are people who have many, many years of great stuff under their belts "SCTV" "Fernwood 2-Night"...

Plus, Christopher Guest is just fucking funny. Unlike the limp dicked "comedy" I saw earlier tonight...

[Kire]

20. they're geniuses because they're great

tau·tol·o·gy n. (tô-tl-j)
1.
a. Needless repetition of the same sense in different words; redundancy.
b. An instance of such repetition.
2. Logic. An empty or vacuous statement composed of simpler statements in a fashion that makes it logically true whether the simpler statements are factually true or false; for example, the statement Either it will rain tomorrow or it will not rain tomorrow.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. It was pretty funny..much like "Best in Show"

SATIRE:A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.
The branch of literature constituting such works. See synonyms at caricature.
Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.

[Kire]

16. irony, derision and wit.

"A Mighty Wind" and "Best in Show" had none of these:


Irony
1. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
2. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
3. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

1. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain).

de·ri·sion n. (d-rzhn)
1.
a. Contemptuous or jeering laughter; ridicule.
b. A state of being derided: The proposal was held in derision by members of the board.
2. An object of ridicule; a laughingstock.

wit1 n. (wt)
1. The natural ability to perceive and understand; intelligence.
2.
a. Keenness and quickness of perception or discernment; ingenuity. Often used in the plural: living by one's wits.
b. wits Sound mental faculties; sanity: scared out of my wits.
3.
a. The ability to perceive and express in an ingeniously humorous manner the relationship between seemingly incongruous or disparate things.
b. One noted for this ability, especially one skilled in repartee.
c. A person of exceptional intelligence.

[NightTrain]

13. I thought "A Mighty Wind" was terrific!

I also loved Guest's two previous films, "Waiting For Guffman" and "Best In Show."

Why, you ask? Because they made me laugh my ass off!

[Kire]

17. "It was funny because I laughed."

tau·tol·o·gy n. (tô-tl-j)
1.
a. Needless repetition of the same sense in different words; redundancy.
b. An instance of such repetition.
2. Logic. An empty or vacuous statement composed of simpler statements in a fashion that makes it logically true whether the simpler statements are factually true or false; for example, the statement Either it will rain tomorrow or it will not rain tomorrow.

[Pithlet]

62. Come on

Humor is very subjective. Nothing tautological about that. Your definition does not apply.

Don't take it as such a personal affront that many don't share your sensibility when it comes to humor. Honestly.

[lenidog]

14. I agree with you

I haven't really liked any of Chris Guest's recent movies but I don't worry about the state of the country if people like them. I am more worried that people enjoy Jim Carrey films than Chris Guests. I find Jim Carrey totally boring and fvcking annoying. He is the second coming of Jerry Lewis.

[Kire]

19. Jim Carrey and Jerry Lewis are funny.

very fucking funny

regarding the rule that roger ebert mentioned in the original post, Liar Liar and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind have characters that do things they don't want to do, but because they must.

Care to post a paragraph or two explaining why you don't think that's not even slightly funny?

[lenidog]

29. Well I can't really say about Eternal Sunshine

because I haven't seen it and I probably wont ever because it has Jim Carrey. Maybe its just me but I find the slapstick shenanigans of both Carey and Lewis utterly and totally boring and after a while annoying to watch. In my mind its the same crap different movie. Maybe because I am a comedy snob. I enjoy some intelligence in my comedy. When I sit down an think of it, its most likely that I am a snob. My three favorite comedies of all time are satires. (Duck Soup, Dr Strangelove, Great Dictator) That is not to mean I totally dislike slapstick, I seen Buster Keaton, the Stooges and love them. Also I would think "The Pink Panther" has many elements of slapstick in it and I love the film. I think Peter Sellers was a comedic genius that hasn't been topped yet. Another thing I HATE in comedy is embarrassment humor I find films like "Meet the Parents" utterly horrible. Though that is a personal thing.

As to Ebert thinking that doing something they don't want to do and doing it anyway is funny. I don't see it. People do that every single day. At times it is more sad than anything else or at the least its just an every day fact of life.

[Kire]

35. nothing is more intelligent that "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"

don't believe me? watch "Adaptation" and "Being John Malkovich" first

Questions:

Is it the embarrassment in "meet the parents" that you find utterly horrible? What's funnier than being embarassed?

laughing at sadness is my favorite kind, and pointing out the fact that it happens every day the best way to do that.

Edit: This post is pathetic, isn't it?

[lenidog]

49. I don't know

its something in my make up that doesn't find it funny at all. I mean an occasinal joke like that is cool but a movie made up of nothing but that sort of things just leaves me bored.

As with "Eternal Sunshine" as I said I never watched it for the simple reason that it had Jim Carrey in it and his track record has left me cold. I mean I liked the "Mask" because the character called for it. Though after that it seemed that hid did nothing but movies like that. Though I am tempted to see "Bruce Almighty" because it seems slightly different than the others.

[alarimer]

66. I liked Eternal Sunshine

But I am not sure it qualifies as a comedy. I am not sure what it was but, while there were humorous moments, it was fairly serious as a whole. I am not a fan of Jim Carrey in his more slapstick movies (I hated the Ace Ventura movies and Mask) but he later films have been more serious and his acting has improved.

[K8-EEE]

57. Jim Carey To Me Is Anti-Funny, Anti-Fun

What a bore.

[HeyManThatsCool]

15. I love Christopher Guest

& I loved A Mighty Wind.



To each his own!


"No I never did no wanderin after all"

[hickman1937]

21. Haven't seen it yet

I liked Best in Show, and loved Guffman. I don't mean to slam your referances, but Rodger Ebert explaining comedy is like Dian Fosse explaining what gorilla's think about.

[Kire]

22. who is Dian Fosse?

and how is Roger Ebert like him?

Edit: any other kind of analogies that little old me might be able to "get"? Or, do I need the key to the country club for Christopher Guest fans that I'm not being allowed to see?

[hickman1937]

25. Dian fosse observed the mountain gorillas

of the Virunga Volcano for years before she was killed. She was not a gorilla, she couldn't do what gorillas do, just observe, and make notes, and advance theories.

[Kire]

27. "what gorillas think about"?

I wonder if they are thinking something funny, like "why do Christopher Guest's movies suck so badly?"

Again, any other comparable analogies that might actually discredit Roger Ebert as someone who knows something about the rules of comedy?

[hickman1937]

30. Excuse me, I should have said "what gorillas are thinking". n/t

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kire]

23. this is exactly why I don't want to see Napolean Dynamite.

It's just "behavior", there are no rules. I am going to waste my time.

[Schema Thing]

24. Your post would be funny, if it were part of a scene wherein Chris Guest

was typing out your words. Methinks your character would come across as devoid of humor, in spite of your protestations against that judgement.


But to each his own. I wonder, what movie/s do you consider wildly funny?

[Kire]

26. my post wasn't meant to be funny

so I guess if chris guest were me, he's be funny to you and your club, too?

What movies do I find wildly funny?

Midnight Run
Planes, Trains, Automobiles
Bubba Ho-tep
About Schmidt
Election
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Adaptation
Sideways
Zoolander
The Royal Tenenbaums
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou


many, many others (for what that's worth)

also, there are a ton of scenes in dramas that I find wildly funny

[Blue-Jay]

28. I suppose that explains everything, doesn't it?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue-Jay]

36. Hahahaha!

Wow. You went from 0 to 10 pretty quickly, didn't you?

For a thread regarding comedy (a very subjective art, I'll admit), you certainly are showing a disturbing lack of humor.

[Kire]

37. I disturb you?

How do I disturb you? Like Hannibal Lecter? Like a serial killer? Like somebody in your past that wasn't funny and you still have nightmares about? Am I that UN-FUNNY to YOU!?@#????

[enigmatic]

38. You're Joe Pesci???

You're stuck on you're lack of height, aren't you?

[Kire]

39. that's where I was going

If I watched a movie with Blue-Jay I might or might not stick a fork in his neck. I'm still undecided.

[Blue-Jay]

40. Really?

What if it was a porno movie?

[Kire]

41. are you trying to be funny?

Or am I Cybil Shepherd to your Robert DeNiro? (am I your fantasy lady?)

BTW, I'd rather go to a porno movie for laughs than a Christopher Guest movie.

[enigmatic]

42. Hey, that's cool!

I'd rather have brain surgery then sit through "Zoolander" again; gotta love choices..

[Blue-Jay]

43. Me? Funny? NEVER!

Guest was brilliant as Nigel in This Is Spinal Tap. Even though I admitted earlier that comedy is a very subjective art, that movie is where I draw the line. It's fucking funny. Period.

[Kire]

45. Spinal Tap was great.

Didn't Rob Reiner direct it, though?

[Blue-Jay]

47. Yeah. So?

Chris Guest co-wrote it and also wrote/performed all of the music.

[Kire]

48. I'm just saying...

...maybe there's a reason that Spinal Tap was funny, and 'A Mighty Wind' and 'Best in Show' were not.

[tigereye]

50. interesting that you liked Spinal Tap

but not Guffman, Best In Show, etc.

A Mighty Wind was pretty good. Some scenes, particularly those "mocking" the sincerity of the large group ( i.e. the woman and the guy who worshop color as a religion were hysterical)I don't think Wind was quite as funny as some of the other Guest projects.

I think Christopher Guest et al are funny because their improv/process is such an overly ( almost lovingly mocking) sincere send-up of different genres, life-styles and those who inhabit them. I like Spinal Tap the best, but Guffman was pretty interminable at times.

[Kire]

52. i guess I prefer self-deprecating humor

and mighty wind, et al, just mock other people

it really does feel like a country club, I think. There's a target, and the game is to humiliate it to no end with utter cruelty and no sense of humanity or imperfection.

I mean, sure, people who worship religion are fucked up. I wouldn't want to be their kid, but I do fucked up things, too, and I know how it feels to get humiliated. If somebody can explain to me why I should "lighten up" about that, great, but for now I am going to laugh at what I laugh at, and not at what I am not going to laugh at. If I laughed at something because I wanted to impress Blue-Jay, what kind of world would this be? A fake one, I think.

[tigereye]

54. but Blue Jay has that great squirrel picture!

he's worth impressing, I think.

seriously I think humor is just subjective, and we are all different. I find the crop of newer alleged humor movies such as What About Mary, Dude Where's My Car and even most Jim Carrey movies pretty much intolerable - just too crude for me. I much prefer the quick, subtle wit of older films... although I did like American Pie.

[eyepaddle]

44. I'm just sort of making a blanket reply here...

First off, ANY attempt to explain personal taste is pretty much gonna be a tautology; for example what is your favorite food? At some point it get's back to "I like the taste." Dressing it up past that just gets to be justification.

I suppose if a person wants to explain what aspects they most find funny (or tasty, or like in music, or whatever) to tell about themselves, rather than really explaining "good."

Honestly, I think Christopher Guest keeps making the same movie over and over again (they are ALL This is Spinal Tap in different settings) but I just like watching the cast he keeps bringing back do their thing--especially Fred Willard, Eugene Levy and Harry Shearer.

What it all boils down to is no matter how articulate your statements, no matter how vehement your sentiment you will NEVER change anybody's mind about what they do (or do not) like.

For the record, I don't think any of his movies (aside from Spinal Tap) are all time classics or anything--certainly not the funniest thing ever--That'd be John Candy's "Going Berserk!"

[Kire]

46. i didn't say guest was "unlikeable"...

...I said he was "not funny."

I like funny comedians. If you don't, I don't need an explanation. But, I don't know, it's kind of a curious phenomenon, don't you think? Comedians who are not funny, yet are very, very popular.

[eyepaddle]

51. Well, there's comedians

and then there's comic actors. Ben Stiller great comic actor--horrible stand-up, in contrast to Jerry Seinfeld--awesome comedian completely unable to act.

Fortunately for everybody they don't try to do what they're not good at.

You like funny comedians, eh? If it's because they're funny, well, there's yer tautology fer ya.

You know what's odd? I don't always laugh at the same stuff. If I laughedat it, once it was by definition "funny." Why wouldn't I laugh again? Sometimes you're in the mood, sometimes ya ain't. Apparently (and I wanna be clear on this) you are never in the mood for Mr. Guest!

[Kire]

53. wrong, a tautology is...

"I like them because I like them." (that is a tautology)

"I like them because they're funny". That is not a tautology, because "what funny is" is not the same as "something I like".

I like things that aren't funny, too. Like figuring stuff out, like what funny is.

[eyepaddle]

55. I love blunt statements

It was funny because I laughed."

tau·tol·o·gy n. (tô-tl-j)
1.
a. Needless repetition of the same sense in different words; redundancy.
b. An instance of such repetition.
2. Logic. An empty or vacuous statement composed of simpler statements in a fashion that makes it logically true whether the simpler statements are factually true or false; for example, the statement Either it will rain tomorrow or it will not rain tomorrow. (Kire reply #17)


At any rate...my point was when figuring out why you like something you're never more than two or three steps away from some ol' fashioned circular logic. That's just how it is.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[NashVegas]

34. I Didn't Care for "A Mighty Wind" But

I loved "Best in Show" and "Waiting for Guffman."

I also think Guest is a fucking genius and that his movies are the closest thing anyone's come to Chaplin in ... how many decades?

All of Guest's characters, no matter how bizarre their circumstance, are given dignity. You laugh at them, but you also cheer for them and sometimes your heart breaks for them.

The only rule I can think of for comedy that must not be broken for something to be comedy, is a happy ending. Bittersweet is okay, but on the verge of being not comedy. Comedy does not have to be "ha ha ha," every 30 seconds to be comedy. Slapstick, otoh, does have to be a constant "ha ha ha" to be slapstick.

[Dastard Stepchild]

58. I agree and disagree with your thoughts....

A Mighty Wind, IMHO, was not Guest's best movie. In fact, I loved Guffman, and thought Best in Show was rather funny, but didn't really enjoy A Mighty Wind as much as I would have liked. I maybe had a few smiles, but no real laughing.

That said, I'm not willing to discount its "comedy" status. Comedy can be very elaborate and over-the-top, such as Jim Carrey or Jerry Lewis, or it can be extremely dry and very subtle, like Guest's or even like the TV show "The Office." I'm willing to accept comedy in all forms, and appreciate different forms for different reasons. Which may be why I can chalk up "dumb" comedies like Liar Liar and intelligent comedies like "Waiting for Guffam" among some of my favorites.

I'll pan A Mighty Wind, but not Gest as a whole, nor that style of comedy.

cheers...

[Placebo]

59. Did you ever see 'Best in Show'?

That movie alone qualifies him for a lifetime pass to make as many bad movies as he wants, it's that funny!

And need we forget 'This is Spinal Tap'? C'mon! :)

[Kire]

60. boy, I had a bug up my ass last night, didn't I?

wild mood swings, that's what I'm about

[eyepaddle]

61. LOL!

Have you thought about more fiber in your diet? At any rate, this post makes it ALL fun now! :hi:

ps check out my new star

[Kire]

64. I wonder what would happen if I rented "A Mighty Wind" right now

don't you?

[eyepaddle]

65. I am curious

but some doors are best left unopened! :evilgrin:

[Cooley Hurd]

63. You have to see Sir Christopher's other movies...

...to get his rhythm in movie making. I suggest starting off with "Best in Show." Very accessible comedy.:thumbsup: