Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

How to cope with good buddies hiding their heads in the sand...?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 11:39 PM
Original message
How to cope with good buddies hiding their heads in the sand...?
I feel sometimes as if my country has been taken over by Nazis. These are 'the times that try men's souls'..

Yet the most demoralizing, depressing part of it isn't the weirdos in Washington. And it's not even the casual friend or the sibling that votes for Bush that most disturbs me and makes me lose hope.

No, it's actually the close friends -- the seeming-soulmates, the sibling -- who, though liberal, want to keep believing 'in the system', and strive to stay middle-of-the-road American style, not realizing that the American middle has gone pretty far right on the world's highway.

Today I got a lecture over the phone about how we all have different opinions, and that's democracy in action, and another thing, elections are fair and there isn't any problem with the voting machines.

Well maybe she's right. But gosh, it's not like she's got any evidence. No, she is a very smart person who nonetheless clings to the simple belief that things can't be so bad as all that, and who has a consistent desire not to be seen as extreme. What I have are some doubts, and a belief that it's absolutely essential for citizens to get to the bottom of the issue.

After the news about Arnie this week I'm pretty down and pretty fed up. So how can I cope with my friend visiting?

She probably is fearing the 'political divide' as much as I am -- she'll be fearing that I'll talk about any of it. So, this weekend I'll be happily listening to her stories about frustrations at work or her favorite television programs or her friends, but I won't be free to talk about what's weighing most heavily on MY mind..because that's not a weight she wants to bear?

Advice? Mantras that will help me get through this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
virgdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Unfortunately, your friend sounds like she's in deep denial
best to keep things on a personal level and not get into anything that is even remotely political. It's not worth it, especially if this friend is a good friend and you enjoy their company.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. I went through the same thing
when Bush was installed as President. I was so upset that I couldn't think about anything else. When I tried to talk with my husband, my friends, and my neighbors, who were also liberals, they thought I was taking the election too seriously. They thought that Bush would move to the center since the election was so close. Now these people have seen for themselves how bad Bush is. I'm glad that I don't feel so alone but I wish I had been proved wrong.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phatfish Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. I feel your dilema
Personally, I would find a comfortable way to somewhat confront her about this. Not to argue or to try to change her mind, but rather let her know why you feel the way you do. I'm sure she knows what you feel. However, since it seems like she is only around for a short time(a weekend) a bad confrontation may lead to ruining the trip. I say talk to her in an open and bustling enviroment, like a rowdy restaurant for dinner. I always seem to have wonderful, deep political conversations with friends in seemingly the most public places. Just my $0.02. Good luck and enjoy the visit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. thanks, to each of you..my new mantra will be
(inaudible, of course:) 'deep denial'..that makes me feel better to have a name for it. And the other advice sounds pretty good too -- an evening in a rowdy restaurant and I probably won't even care!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smallprint Donating Member (778 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. I feel the same way sometimes

Honestly, it makes me so mad I just want to slap people in the face and scream "WAKE UP!!!!!"


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. She will wake up at her own pace. Or not. But you must accept this.
My father and I - wow, talk about a divide. He's ex-Air Force, 24 years, Special Operations Command, involved in Grenada, Panama, Gulf War 91, you name it. It infuriates me to know he was deceived into participating in these things. I, on the other hand, am a bisexual, pro-marijuana, radically-tinged, long-haired guy who hates war.

We had a fight before "Project Halliburton", right after the scripted speech conference (you know the one). I called Bush a "motherfucking traitor". My dad laughed it off and said he was not going to get into it with me. I had to accept that he has his view and that it's impossible, not to mention unethical, to force someone to see what they aren't ready to see. So I dropped it and dealt with non-political topics.

Two months later, he told me he was proud of me for speaking my mind and for my convictions.

Time can make a difference. I had to let it go, and thankfully I got a wonderful return on that risk. I may not have. But I was prepared to live with that. I still would have loved him - he's my dad! I'm certain you will handle things as best you can. Hang in there! :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. Let 'em live. This too shall pass.
If you're going to be candid with other people and demand candor of them, it is a matter of honesty to admit that the voting machine stuff is a potential problem rather than a real one. That the Florida election result of 2000 was proof of an intentionally incompetent system failing and the Republicans having- and abusing- all the structural advantages (money, lies, public official actions e.g. the Supreme Court decision). And that white Americans are presently about 55% solidly Republican, 30%-35% Democratic voting. That is what the evidence says clearly- the rest is suspicions. Why not let your friends live in the empirical world, let them live outside the mania and paranoia and pain of things in which they have and make no emotional investment? The moral argument is important, but investment in the political game is voluntary in this country and politics is- unlike religion- a game in which morality is often an optional constraint.

If you feel the country has been taken over by fascists and overlords, well, that's because too much of it has. But don't be ahistorical- they were already around ten and fifteen and twenty and thirty and a hundred years ago, and they submerged the fascism when it wasn't necessary to use it to retain power. If you think the bigotry now is bad, you don't know what and how viciously the first Baby Boomer liberals had to fight the generation older than them.

Don't let Arnie get you down. Whatever he does, he can't change the basic facts of Californian life much. Under Davis there was a steady blue collar and middle class white flow eastward and northward, to places where white privilege (more money for less productivity and education) is greater. Arnie will likely try to pay off companies already destined to leave to stay on in California for a few more months or years, which will be unsustainable and ineffectual- certainly not the basis of a proper recovery. He'll probably stem things for a short time with the measures his buddies want inplemented, and then it'll collapse on them and their supporters. The top layer of Republicans will all cash in on taxpayer billions, of course, but on the other hand it's not that large a payoff if it's the end of their kind for at least a generation in the political arena and maybe the dominance of their social and economic power altogether- as I suspect it is. (The present Bush looting of the Treasury is a similar kind of involuntary payoff, in my opinion, to a decaying national colonial elite about to move offshore.) IMHO it's good riddance, even at that price (a few percent of GNP for one year or a few), if we can get them out the door and lock it.

As for good news to keep your spirits up, Davis and Schwarzenegger are probably the last of their particular kind of Democrats and Republicans to get elected in California. Other states will rumble yet, but most have already done this particular thing (purging the old style centrists, mostly Democrats) in ~1994 more thoroughly than California did and have been progressively, so to speak, purging the Republicans who replaced them as renewed Democratic talent has delivered its proofs.

By 2006 or 2008 there will be enough of a majority of social liberal leaners that the Republicans will have to change or die in national elections. There is a similar slow but quite constant increase in the proportion of control of the national wealth shifting from reactionary to moderate hands so that by 2020 the economic system will begin to break up its colonial economic doctrine (aka corporatist capitalism) with a chaotic messiness. '04 is yet to emerge for what it is.

But don't expect that what emerges when Democrats do win to match your expectations and demands. The corporations and the people who really run them are still crude and bulky entities with much power and unsociable interests, and we can make their relationship with society at large at best symbiotic- rather than parasitic. When Latino/black/mulatto/mestizo- post-white- culture starts changing towns and cities to the point of being inescapable, when everyones' kids are taken into it, it won't always be in agreeable and aesthetically pleasing and priorly convention-appropriate fashion. Liberals of the present will have a hard time with much about the society we are paving the way for, though we surely will marvel at other aspects.

So being a little sympathetic of conservatives of the present is valuable for keeping your sanity; now is not all of time, and the present condition will seem better than many you will yet encounter as well as worse than many others. Holding power is overrated as a method of doing good, and it is only means rather than reason for the doing of evil.

The way Americans have evaluated each other for thousands of years is whether you know what is truly important, and whether you can make the most of- find a bit or a lot of the sublime and the worthwhile in- the things available to you. Your friends still embody that to you, you certainly do embody some of it to them, and certainly both sides will try to embody more of it to each other as you grow. Politics is per se the impersonal, soulless, part of social life- there is only so much we can demand from it and some of it will always be painful if we engage it. Some people just do not feel called to, or capable of, the suffering involved. And maybe their advice to you is not so much discouragement as: please push these things away from you to arm's length so that it doesn't get at your inner life so much, which is the personal and what they love about you. Value them for trying to tell you as much. Maybe they don't make as much of an effort to get at truth as you would like, but humility says it's not yet clear which you is really more successful, more able to make life worthwhile in so doing. Please feel fortunate at having friends with whom you can disagree about things of this kind- many people do not. This too shall pass.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Friar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. fold up tin foil
a minimum of four layers. Make a hollow pyramid. Place on friend's head and tell them in a soft voice, "Everything's going to be OK now."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC