Right now I'm really angry at HST.

[bobthedrummer]

No disrespect for the late genius-but I'm angry at him if he really did kill himself.

[Bunny]

1. Yours is a pretty common response to the suicide of a loved one. n/t

[tavalon]

2. That's part of the process

Granted, it's supposed to be the second or third step, but what the hell, you aren't required to do the steps in order.

May I ask you a question? Have you ever been depressed? Not the "gee, I'm feelin' kind of down today" depressed but the true major depression illness depressed? Then, I think you might understand better where this man went. You would be and still are entitled to be angry but it might help to clear up the obligatory "Why the fuck did he do this!?!" that must be boiling up right about now.

I haven't made it to the angry stage yet, I'm still in the very sad, heart hurting place. I've been to the place he went and I wish like hell he had been able to see another choice.

[bobthedrummer]

5. Yes, I've been clinically depressed at times and I was living in the

same world as HST. My anger is elevated by the fact that I'm 55, disabled and have made political enemies in my lifetime. So what?

I have a higher tolerance for pain and lower standards about bullshit than people within 2 standard deviations of the norm today.

I comprehend gonzo. Fuck it.

[Karenina]

3. Understandable...

:hug: I "grew up" with Dr. Gonzo and was shocked upon reading the enclosure I got this morning... HST did EXACTLY whatever the hell he felt like doing and gave a whole bunch of us "permission" to think outside the box. Frankly, I prefer suicide to a hit and defer to his judgement.

[blm]

4. Actually, it was very much like him to go out like that.

Thompson wouldn't let himself be taken out by anything or anyone else but by him and his own gun and his own time.

[blackcatpgh]

39. and he seemed ready to do it a long time ago

judging from his Author's Note intro to The Great Shark Hunt:

"I feel like I might as well be sitting up here carving the words for my own tombstone...and when I finish, the only fitting exit will be right straight off this fucking terrace and into The Fountain, 28 stories below and at least 200 yards out in the air and across Fifth Avenue.

Nobody could follow that act.

Not even me...and in fact the only way I can deal with this eerie situation at all is to make a conscious decision that I have already lived and finished the life I planned to live -- (13 years longer, in fact) -- and everything from now on will be A New Life, a different thing, a gig that ends tonight and starts tomorrow morning.

So if I decided to leap for The Fountain when I finish this memo, I want to make one thing perfectly clear -- I would genuinely love to make that leap, and if I don't I will always consider it a mistake and a failed opportunity, one of the very few serious mistakes of my First Life that is now ending."

the Doctor wrote that in 1977. maybe he wasn't about to make that "mistake" (his term) twice. still, it's been a really sad week.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

48. I was reading that last night, in memory

So sad...

It's odd. For me, Hunter's work always reminded me of the general insanity and fun that there was to be gotten out of life. It's kept me grounded from being too serious at times.

I wish someone had been around to give him the same feeling.

[blackcatpgh]

53. fun

that's what i get from his stuff too -- that "insane fun" is an necessary part of life in an insane world. an important thing to remember, especially in these bleak times we're living in.

hell, it was his title! "Champion of Fun." he earned it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

6. Truman killed himself? Or am I utterly out of the loop? (nt)

[bobthedrummer]

7. Hunter S. Thompson/HST

[WilliamPitt]

14. OK. *That* was funny.

Truman Comes Back From Dead, Kills Self

Film at 11...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. It was completely sincere

I thought something was discovered or speculated about Truman's death, not that he was alive today.

[bobthedrummer]

18. You're in Brazil too, the initials could easily been mistaken

Btw, ever read HST's work?

[JVS]

8. Meh. What can you do about it?

[bobthedrummer]

9. Rage intellectually, internally and ethically by choice.

:hi:

[Droopy]

10. I'm shocked more than anything

He had that gig with ESPN and things seemed to be going good. Has anybody heard anything about Thompson's state of mind and life before the suicide that would give us a hint as to why he did it? Did he leave a note?

[Withywindle]

27. A writer acquaintance of mine posted on her blog today

that she had met him a few months ago, and she said he seemed ill. That he was having trouble walking and kept leaning on things. His mind was sharp and clear, but he seemed to be in pain.

If he was sick, if he had some kind of degenerative illness, he might very well have decided to end it on his own terms before he was forced into a kind of existence he didn't want. (This does NOT mean I think disabled people should kill themselves or anything of the sort--but I'll be damned if I'm going to get judgmental on someone for making that choice for themselves.) He likely had depression as well. He valued his privacy a lot on the things he wanted kept private, though, so we may never know all of it.

[xmas74]

43. I take many calls from

depressed individuals that are threatening suicide. I believe that it is only about 20% that leave notes (correct me if someone finds a different number-it's been a while since I took suicide prevention).
Most sucessful suicides are spur of the moment.

[Bob3]

11. I understand the feeling

I'm still in shock but there's that sense of "Damn it Hunter why?" Of course I don't know any of the facts so this is just raw emotion. And raw emotion can be very judgmental.
makes it hurt more I think.
Damn.

[Mizmoon]

12. I heard a rumor from a book agent that he was ill

didn't want to die with tubes and shit stuck in him. Not at all sure it's true.

[Dogmudgeon]

13. Death makes no sense at all.

Not suicide, not homicide, and not dying on one's own of old age or disease.

My grandmother died four months ago. We were very close, and I took care of her while she was dying. It still makes no sense.

--p!

[bobthedrummer]

15. Death is always an option to the living.

One doesn't see much self-destruction in nature or in the universe.
I'm not so sure about the senseless quality of death, plus I believe in a spiritual dimension of everything in the physical realm.

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. When my father in law killed himself, I hated him.

I hated him in life...for drinking and for causing the heartache that I saw so clearly in my beloved's eyes. I hated him for not being able to hold my son and get to know him...I hated him for leaving his mess for my husband to find...

Suicide is most painful for those left behind.

[Bunny]

20. I have several cousins who have committed suicide.

It is indeed very painful for those left behind. My aunt and uncle have never been quite the same since my cousin killed herself, 21 years ago.

[LiberallyInclined]

19. it was HIS life to take.

but i suppose he should have been man enought to endure whatever overwhelming pain he was feeling, just to suit your wants and desires.

:eyes:

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. That is rude, if I may say so. I completely understand this poster.

I have yet to forgive my father in law for killing himself. And I know, or have a pretty good idea, just how much pain he was in. That doesn't make those left behind any less angry. Please think.

Thanks.

[LiberallyInclined]

25. you have no right to be angry with anyone over their suicide.

our lives are ours to do with as we wish. If a person feels that they no longer want to go on living- suicide is definitely an option. NOBODY is indebted to go on living merely for the convienence and wants of another.
some may consider suicide a "selfish" act.
of course it is. and so is faulting someone for it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

28. Sure I do. And You're not changing my mind. I'm pissed at him. He had

no right to put his son through the hell of scraping his brains off the wall. No it's not selfish. That horse you rode in on is pretty tall.

[LiberallyInclined]

32. the method he chose may have been rude and uncalled for...

but i won't begrudge anybody their decision to pack it in...

for whatever reason.

I'd feel sorry for them, to have had to live with so much pain.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. I will begrudge him.

Thanks.

[bobthedrummer]

22. Like I said, it is an option for the living.

Don't malign my intentions here, I love HST.

[LiberallyInclined]

26. you were the one that said you were angry with him...

i just wanted to point out how selfish that way of thinking is.
be happy for him, that his pain is ended, and his demons are finally gone.

[bobthedrummer]

40. So you are a spiritual philosopher and expert on self-destruction too?

Yes, I'm selfish all right.:silly:

[LiberallyInclined]

52. it shows.

even if you can't see it.

[Droopy]

23. That's a little harsh don't you think?

It's hard to understand what drives some people to commit sucicide. If it were known that Thompson were suffering from a terminal illness I think this would be more understandable. But we don't know anything. It's very confusing because he seemed to have things going well for him.

[LiberallyInclined]

24. it's actually none of anyone's business WHY.

that's between hunter and himself.

[HEyHEY]

29. I doubt it was anything to do with pain

He was probably just bored with life. Figured he was getting older and decided "Hey, I decide when it ends." Very much his way.

[Karenina]

30. WHOSE life is it anyway?

"We are living in dangerously weird times now. Smart people just shrug and admit they're dazed and confused. The only ones left with any confidence at all are the New Dumb. It is the beginning of the end of our world as we knew it. Doom is the operative ethic." - Written in the year 2000." Hunter S. Thompson

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." -Hunter S Thompson

"perhaps he found what he came here for, but the odds are huge that he didn't. He was an old, sick, and very troubled man, and the illusion of peace and contentment was not enough for him - not even when his friends came up from Cuba and played bullfight with him in the Tram. So finally, and for what he must have thought the best of reasons, he ended it with a shotgun."

Hunter Thompson, 1964

[HEyHEY]

31. Is that supposed to be a response to mine?

If so, I don't follow.

[Karenina]

37. You speculated (I believe correctly)

so I pulled a coupla HST quotes to back you up! The subject line was the title of a film with Richard Dreyfuss IIRC... :hi:

[LiberallyInclined]

33. i think that if hunter was just bored...

he'd have found something else to shoot besides himself.

[HEyHEY]

34. Not "Bored" but

Just tired you know, he had a hell of a life and maybe didn't like getting old and saw no reason to put up with it.

[xmas74]

45. I believe that too

If the rumor of illness was true, I can more than accept his actions.They are still sad and leave many unanswered questions.
If I were diagnosed with a terminal illness, it would be something that I would comtemplate. I want the right to die when I want and how I want-and with dignity.

[Skittles]

36. would you be angry if he died of cancer?

depression is an illness

[bobthedrummer]

44. I'll tell you what Skittles, I faced down my personal self-destructive

demons a couple of times-many people go throught this--it is more common among creative artists, as a musician I've known too many people that exercised their suicide option.

I'm less angry today, of course, than yesterday when I started this thread. But, I'm still angry at HST. Do you want to kick my ass?

[Skittles]

54. I guess talk of suicide always distresses me

there are lots of suicides in my family including my father so I've seen the suffering involved.

[Karenina]

57. Dude, I came across Jaco in the street

And there was NOTHING I could do. NOTHING. Absolutely FUCKING NOTHING.

[jus_the_facts]

38. in his own words.......

....my new sig line....

[Wat_Tyler]

41. Why? What did he owe you?

It's his life. He wrote plenty of books, which you can read whenever you like. What more should we demand from him?

[bobthedrummer]

46. What a profitable way to frame going off-topic.

HST was a public figure involved in our political processes. I don't think that being angry at his act of self-destruction is any more demanding than anything else here on Earth, home of The War President.

[Wat_Tyler]

47. Not sure what you're getting at there, Bob.

I was asking why you were angry at Thompson's death. Why should you be angry at him?

[bobthedrummer]

49. First off, I make no demands, also noone owes anyone anything.

I just don't appreciate the ultimate "fuck you" (from a 67 year old gonzo veteran) that suicide conveys. It's not like exposing real politik and evil corruption during one's life. It isn't gonzo either, if you think about it.

[Magrittes Pipe]

50. It was on his terms, by his hand, with his gun.

I am not an advocate of suicide.

That said, I cannot imagine Thompson going any other way.

[Wat_Tyler]

51. Why is it a 'fuck you'?

How do any of us know what Thompson's intent was? He was old (relatively), and had delivered a great body of written work. As far as a career goes, his was pretty much over. Why feel angry at an old man for deciding his own fate?

[LynneSin]

42. I'm still pissed that Abbie Hoffman did too...

we could really use someone like Abbie out there helping us fight against this unjust war!

[khashka]

55. I'm not angry at him

but I'll miss him. From what I've been able to find out from people who knew him, he was not depressed or "suicidal" in the usual sense. He did have health problems. And he decided to take charge of his own death, on his own terms, in his own way. If that's true, good for him.

What makes me angry is that he was alone. That his friends and loved ones could not be there with him. Or, else, face prosecution and jail time.

Even so, the world is a little smaller, sadder place without him.

Khash.

[PurityOfEssence]

56. Taking one's life can often be an act of honorable decency: George Eastman

It's one's own life. If one doesn't want to decline and experience pain and loss of ability, its one's own decision to do so.

Should he have soldiered on until life ebbed away, or should he have done as he pleased?

He was one who truly reveled in control; there is no greater expression of control than this.

George Eastman, pioneer of photography was also sick and old; he killed himself to avoid the decline and pain to come. His note read: "To my friends, My work is done--, Why wait?"

[miss_kitty]

58. What did Harry S Truman ever do to you?