Clueless about women, part deux

[steve2470]

Ok, at the risk of becoming freeper-fodder again, here goes. Got the 2nd date. It hasn't been scheduled yet, but probably next weekend due to kids and work schedules. So far, so good.
The problem now: feeling intimidated and insecure. Why ? Logically, I should feel ok about myself and not be intimidated or insecure. Whoever said logic ran the human mind ? She's drop-dead gorgeous and can get anyone she wants, including rich guys. So why in the hell should she want to spend time with me, who is non-rich, non-macho, a bit on the quiet and shy side ? Do the drop-dead gorgeous females usually get past that money and success and power thing ? This is just my perception from past experience. Your input please, ladies. Thank you in advance for your time.

[tjdee]

1. Women LIKE quiet and shy. Men are all screwed up about that.

No self-respecting woman loves money/power/success more than a man who pays attention to her and listens to her. I guarantee you you're thinking more about money than she is.

Actually, and I'm under 30, I can't think of one woman I know personally who is all about money/success/power. Not one. It's good to have, but we aren't stupid.

She obviously sees something there--don't try to talk yourself out of your good fortune!

[steve2470]

3. tis good to know this. perhaps i've been around the wrong

crowd, probably all repukes lol

[steve2470]

21. also, thanks ! being shy in junior high was death ! LOL nt

[Salviati]

2. Why?

"So why in the hell should she want to spend time with me, who is non-rich, non-macho, a bit on the quiet and shy side "

Because all the rich macho ultra-extroverts care about is how she looks good on their arm. You on the other hand will likely listen to what she says, care about what she thinks, worry about how she feels, and hopefully make her laugh.

Of course this comes from a guy who is likely just as non-rich, non-macho, and quiet as you. Probably also just as clueless about women...

[MissB]

4. Money, success and power can be good

but the men I've met that have all that, well, aren't all that. Self-centered jerks, mostly.

She's probably just looking for a nice guy. There are more important things than money and power - and maybe she's dated enough jerks to realize that. So relax and be yourself.

Oh, and good luck.

[steve2470]

5. thanks so much :-) nt

[steve2470]

6. oh yeah, a little more info: she's 45, has two young kids, the

father of the kids was abusive to them and is now barred from seeing them, and she's been married 3 times, as I have. I'm sure she's had 1000's of men interested and hundreds of dates. She's also in my same business.

[Lorien]

61. A friend of mine is a former supermodel

her boyfriend of the past ten years is unattractive and makes about 1/5 what my friend does (and he's not a terribly interesting guy, imho), but she loves him anyway. True attraction-and love-is blind. :-)

[khashka]

7. Not a lady but...

You feel intimidated because you really like her and want her to like you.

But the very qualities you listed as your faults are probably the very reasons she wants a second date with you....

Khash.

[rockymountaindem]

8. Well, I'm rich, powerful and macho... so I get women all the time.

Sorry I can't help you.

:silly:

[steve2470]

9. lol nt

[Nay]

10. Relax, Steve! She is probably happy to have found somebody

who she can talk to who doesn't immediately try to take her panties off. Honestly, some men act like creeps and think they are cool, and she's surprised to find a guy who's not an asshole. She wouldn't go on a second date if she thought you were a jerk.

Your best bet is to be yourself, because she obviously likes you as yourself. If she was attracted to the shallow macho blusterers, she wouldn't be dating you. Her life has probably been filled with rich, good-looking OBNOXIOUSLY SELF-INVOLVED guys, and she's tired of them. So, good heavens, go out and enjoy some time with the nice lady!

(And make sure you report back to us.)

[steve2470]

11. I will. My biggest problem with her is I'm not great at small talk.

When's there's those pregnant pauses, I'm going eeek inside. OMG, she thinks I'm boring. Talk about negative self-talk.

[tjdee]

15. Comfortable silence....not pregnant pauses, LOL.

It's impossible to talk every single second :) and sometimes it can be rough, all that quiet (just had that tonight at a meeting) especially if you're just getting to know each other... but try thinking of it as a comfortable silence.

[MissB]

17. You could always fall back on

talking about her kids. Most moms like to talk about her kids. If you feel comfy enough to do it, you could ask about them.

[steve2470]

19. good idea, we both have kids, just trying not to overdo that nt

[tjdee]

22. This is a good idea.

I don't bring up my kid, but if someone asks I'm more than happy to tell them any number of kid stories.

[Dastard Stepchild]

36. My husband suffers from severe social anxiety...

He could barely muster up the courage to chat on the phone, and those first few weeks were pretty rough on him... but he was/is a sweet, thoughful and charming individual. So, I just stuck it out as he built up his confidence. It was well worth it. :)
Shyness is fine. I can do shyness without a problem... most people are patient with a shy person since they tend to often be a really great "diamond in the rough," so to speak.

[steve2470]

38. glad the two of you made it ! I just don't have a degree in small

talk lol , once the ice is broken, i'm fine. It's just the insecurity that I WILL overcome.

[Dastard Stepchild]

42. It's nerve-wracking for even the most social of us ....

I empathize with you... as does my husband, who is presently nodding his head in agreement :)

[steve2470]

43. thank you :-) nt

[rockymountaindem]

12. Reading this thread s'more.... I have a question.

Are so many guys really such big jerks? With all these "she's probably happy to find someone nice" replies, it's making me wonder. Are women really harassed all the time by blowhard fools? I get the feeling they are, and that's why I'm always slow to approach women, because I figure they're tired of guys approaching them and it's not worth my time.

What's the deal?

[tjdee]

16. Yes, they are such big jerks.

Many men have a tendency to think they are smarter/hotter/funnier than they really are. They act accordingly, and it ends up not so fun for a woman.

And inevitably they fuck up something so easily unfuckupable. Usually because they're being selfish.

That's after the 982490823098015th time they're trying to get into your pants.

Since you asked ;) .

[MissB]

18. LOL

I think it is just the difference between men and women. Seriously. Men are taught to be self confident. Women, not so much (although that can vary depending on the mother.)

[tjdee]

20. Women are taught to think about others' feelings.

That goes into the whole nurturing/providing thing (men were traditionally providers, so they had to be competitive and selfish to a point regarding hunting, etc.).

That's all changing now...I do know some terrifyingly selfish women.
:scared:

[steve2470]

23. i'm pretty good at the whole feelings thing too. guess that helps

me with most "mature" women (emotional maturity, not necessarily age).

[bettyellen]

37. it's a weird thing, the ones that come like gangbusters are all annoying

and creepy to me. i have had so many jerks bother me over the years,and a lot are worse than fools-- men who get angry and bark and what not because you refuse to have a drink with them. you get the feeling that they act up all the time, yeah, it's nice to talk to a normal quiet guy. charming okay, but blowhards, no.

[SarahB]

53. Yes!

Rarely is there a happy medium of a man who can nicely assert himself. It seem to be either creeps who step over the line into the sexual harrassment zone or the guy who's so shy, I have to practically hit him over the head to say, "YES, I REALLY LIKE YOU!" before he gets it.

[Bok_Tukalo]

54. There's just no pleasing some people.

(that was a joke)

[SarahB]

56. My love life history is freaky.

And makes me sad. :(

[HEyHEY]

13. Have a few drinks beforehand!

Just make sure you throw her the keys and cordially explain why you aren't driving.

[steve2470]

14. lol she had an alcoholic ex husband, i'm sure that would work really

well, but thanks for the input :-)

[bettyellen]

40. rodger, is that you, you bastid!!

[bettyellen]

24. if you don't stop worrying i'm going to brain you i swear......

okay, i'm a slightly intimidating woman, or so i have been told.....
almost every really worhtwhile guy i've spent time with, i have had to ask. the jerks who are totally full of themselves , i beat off with a stick 24/7.
thus has it always been. you don't know how many times i've heard the "you like me better than him?" and the "if you didn't ask me, kiss me, etc...i would have never has the nerve" way too many times. that said, i'm going to boss you around a little.....
just don't be all anxious or needy, okay? don't put her on a pedastal becasue she's got beautiful hair or go on about her looks too much...and don't do the single rose thing, please? a nice little bouquet or bottle of wine, anything but carnations. a single rose is too Bachleorette with a Lionel Ritchie soundtrack. not too much colonge or crunchy hair and i'm sure you'll be fine.
hope you have fun !

[steve2470]

25. great advice. I haven 't once said a word about her looks, give me a point

Anxious, ok I flunk that a bit. Needy, not yet. Pedestal, buzzzz........I fail that one, gotta destroy the pedestal. Rose, I won't do it.

[bettyellen]

27. get over the pedestal.. it's a set up! she's just a human being you know..

she's probably too pressured with being a single mom to be expected to perch up there. you guys have know each other a while though, right? how well?

[steve2470]

28. we have known each other, more off than on, for 15 years. We are in the

same business in a small circle locally. She definitely feels very safe and comfortable with me. She has told me things in one date and conversations on the phone that 1) she would never tell most people and 2)if she did, she would have to get to know them pretty well.

[steve2470]

26. oh yeah, and I asked her out ! So, I'm getting better :-) nt

[bettyellen]

33. that's great! i'm so proud of you....

i know a half dozen beautiful women applaud you for that. did she ask you the first time?

okay, maybe you could compliment her a bit, but slyly. nothing too blatant even if it's 100% true, irish girls and a lot of northern gals have a hard time with flattery, so i am biased. see how it goes.

go get em tiger!
:bounce:

[steve2470]

34. Nope, I contacted her via email and then I called her first and then

I asked her out first. Typical male aggressiveness lol And yes, I will compliment her when I think I can do it slyly. Right now I'd gush all over her and embarass the shit out of myself lol

[bettyellen]

39. i only said that because you're OP gushed a bit..... nt

[steve2470]

41. yeah, I keep mymouth shut about that, I've learned a few things at age

46.5 lol

[steve2470]

35. thanks for the applause too :-) nt

[SarahB]

29. From a woman's perspective...

I don't know about "drop dead gorgeous", but I'm a fairly decent looking woman (one might say somewhat "built") who probably looks even younger than my age. However, I have lived a lot of life and have a lot of life experiences for someone my age. I could probably be arm candy to some rich dude, but that's not who I am. I want someone on the same wavelength as me. Someone who gets me. Someone who I can feel free to be myself with (which is silly at times, but more introverted and intellectual on many levels), so I would tend not to go for someone who is incredibly extroverted and boisterous for a relationship. If he has money, fine. If he doesn't, so be it. I'm not looking for anyone to take care of me at this point in my life and strongly need some independence anyway.

If she's anything like me, it makes sense. It makes more than sense, so stop worrying. She likes you for who you are. :)

[steve2470]

30. you are right, I need to relax big time, thanks :-) nt

[tanyev]

31. Good luck, steve!

"Drop-dead gorgeous" females cannot be stereotyped in the manner you are suggesting. Some women are hung up on money, success, and power and some women can see through all of that BS.

I would not dare to call myself gorgeous, but I will tell you that I have never been drawn to the typical definition of an attractive man. Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, etc--boring. I'm always intrigued by the guy that everyone else overlooks. Maybe it's a wicked sense of humor, a goofy grin, or the way his glasses make him look really smart. Who can explain why people feel attraction to one another?

But it's NOT all about money! If you got a 2nd date, there must be something she likes. Have a good time!

[steve2470]

32. thank you nt

[gardenista]

44. Do drop-dead gorgeous women usually get past that money

and success and power thing?

Yes, we do, if you are a truly kind person who is genuinely interested in us for our other characteristics.

[steve2470]

49. Funny thing, she mentioned kind in her list of "wants"..I've got

kind covered totally. Geez, why am I worried ? LOL

[crispini]

45. As a woman who has been told she is "intimidating"

here's a tip: do NOT tell her you find her a little intimidating. Biggest. Turnoff. Ever.

[steve2470]

50. great advice. I will not, I promise nt

[seabeyond]

46. could it be because you are nice

we have conditioned both men and women on this, but really nice is such a good good thing. do you make her laugh. i am serious. take life seriously. not much into playing. i got together with my husband because he is nice. he liked to play. and he made me laugh. he was secure and responsible. he wasnt explosive. he was so intersted in me. he valued me.

i financially could take care of myself. i wasnt worried about money. i just didnt want someone i was going to pay their way in life. someone responsible.

a decade later, i couldnt have made a better choice.

btw..........i had the pickins of a lot of men in town, with power, money and influence. it happens we are doing well, and that is good, but.......the goodness of our marriage is his character. he is a good person. i wouldnt settle for anything less.

[steve2470]

51. I'm happy for you. All of you are inspiring and comforting me,

thank you so much. If I was rich lol I'd owe all of you checks for therapy lol

[Floogeldy]

47. Just don't be too shy!

Do not refrain from asserting yourself when it is justified.

Otherwise, she might think you are a wimp.

You're a man. And don't you forget it.

}(

[steve2470]

48. wimp I am not, thanks :-) nt

[Floogeldy]

52. We'll see

[HEyHEY]

55. RUn, run like fuck run run rrun

Or try the "lean" meaning you leaning into her, keep moving in until she moves away, or doesn't if she doesn't it's kissin' time.

[bettyellen]

57. ROTFL....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. Both men and women are clueless about what turns the other on

On two occasions in my life, I have heard men wonder why So-and-So is always surrounded by women when he's not particularly good-looking.

Having been one of the women flocking around this man on both occasions, here's the answer: the man truly respected women as equals, was smart, witty, kindhearted, not into macho posturing, and yet very masculine.

Years ago, when L.A. Law was on TV, I heard some male colleagues wondering what Jill Eikenberry saw in Michael Tucker, who is shorter than she, slightly plump, and kind of dweebish looking. We women had to explain that she had probably been knocked dead by his smile. The men didn't get it.

On the other hand, a lot of women think that men like nearly anorexic figures, which I am told is not the case.

[Technowitch]

59. Chill dude!

I'm hotter than hell (I've had enough alcohol ealier in the evening that I can actually be honest about that...usually I'm entirely too self-effacing) -- and I actually PREFER the shy ones.

Why? Because they're not so full of themselves. They tend to be eager to please, and less full of BS.

My best lover ever is an attractive gentleman ten years older than me -- but he's not overly macho or anything.

I'll say this much, Steve: SOME women, good looking or not, get all caught up in whether the guy is wealthy or a hunk. Some of us look past that. And because we can pick anyone we want, we pick the best.

Take that as a compliment from the drop-dead gorgeous lady, and just accept it for what it is.

[steve2470]

60. thanks ! :-) nt