Where do nicknames such as "Peg" for "Margaret" come from?

[dolo amber]

Ted for Edward (was it orignally Tedward? :shrug:)...Sasha for Alexander?

[PartyPooper]

1. Or, "Bill" for William..."Babs" for Barbara...etc.

:bounce:

[Sporadicus]

2. 'Peig' is Actually the Gaelic Name for Margaret

Anglicized to 'Peg.' Don't know about the others, however.

[yellowdogintexas]

8. after all these years, I am glad to finally know the answer to Peg

for Margaret.

My daughter Margaret will be pleased to know as well.

[dolo amber]

9. Me too!

Cool...I figure that's probably the case for most of these things, but I never knew for sure...the ones that puzzle me the most are the Dick-Richard, Bill-William, Ted-Edward things...ones that just have like one letter changed. Weird.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

10. I've always wondered about why I'm called Peggy

thanks.

[Dogmudgeon]

30. Same here

In spite of the fact that my name is David.

Then again, I've had some strange S.O.s

--p!

[Bunny]

32. HAHAHAHA!

Good one, Peg!

[Enraged_Ape]

34. 'Margaret' originally meant 'Young woman with peg leg'

It's from the Gaelic "Marg" (young woman) and "a-Ret" (wooden leg). This was eventually shortened to "Peig" (pegged of leg).

There were a lot of wooden legs back in the Gaelic days, before firearms were discovered to fend off the numerous wolf attacks.

[Misunderestimator]

3. And Dick for Richard

[Skittles]

27. I have never understood men allowing themselves to be called DICK

I mean, really

[NomoBreaks]

31. This reminds me of a story...

I am married to a Brasilian woman. When this happened, she had been in the US maybe three years but always with Brasilians so her language and cultural skills as they apply to New York living were somewhat limited.

One night we went to some function somewhere and while mingling, a fellow approached her and said:

"Hello, I'm DICK"

She did a perfect Danny Thomas "spit-take" !!

Spewed Pepsi all over the dude and damn near fell down laughing!

I laughed like crazy after, but at the time I don't know who was more embarrassed, me...

or Mr. Cavett

[RevolutionaryActs]

4. Sasha for Alexander......

...... :wtf:

[Igel]

14. Sasha's Russian ,

and there are lots of forms like that ending in -a (it's the first and most common way of making a name less formal). Stressed vowels are in caps, and sometimes the form isn't derived from the (imported) literary variant, but the native Russian (e.g., Vladimir is S. Slavic, Volodymir was the old Russian form).

ivAn > Vanya
AnatOliy > Tolya
varvArya > Varya (Barbara)
yUriy > Yura
mikhaIl > Misha (kh ~ sh is a common change)
Ana > Anya
larIsa > Lara
marIya > Masha
vitAliy > Vitya
borIs > Borya
nikolAy > Kolya
sergEy > Seryozha
vladImir > Volodya, Vova
fyOdor > Fedya
pyOtr > Petya
evgEniy > Zhenya (g ~ parallels the kh ~ sh change)

(There are also a lot of further forms: Vanya, Vanka, Vanyenka, Vanushka, ... Always a problem as to what to do with these in translation.)

[Sanity Claws]

5. I have wondered about names like that too

Once I asked my friend, How did "Richard" get the nickname "Dick?" She said, maybe he had a big one. I near fell on the floor laughing.
I hope we get some answers to your name questions

[JimmyJazz]

6. sasha - the reason it is a nickname for alexander because of

the russian roots of the name.

[PartyPooper]

7. And, "Bob" for Robert..."Betty" for Elizabeth

:bounce:

[jarab]

11. And where'd "Patsy" (for Martha) come from? eom

...O...

[kskiska]

12. And "Chimp" for George

[dolo amber]

15. I'd think that one's obvious

:D

[PartyPooper]

13. Or, "Hank" for Henry.

:bounce:

[asthmaticeog]

16. What I want to know is how the hell

I started getting called "pussy" when my name's Percy! Can nobody enunciate properly anymore? :shrug:

[dolo amber]

17. I don't think that was enunciation-related, darlin'

[Hand]

23. Just not your lifetime this time around, sport...

Insh'Allah.

:evilgrin:

[starroute]

18. There are fads in nicknames, like everything else

These days, we're pretty unimaginative and just tend to either reduce long names or the first syllable or add -ie or -y to short ones. But in the past, nicknames have often been a lot more creative.

Back in the 18th and early 19th centuries, they tended to change the first letter and/or mangle the middle. So Mary > Polly. William > Bill. Edward > Ted or Ned. Sarah > Sally. Robert > Bob. Margaret > Peg. Richard > Dick. Dorothea > Dolly.

In Shakespeare's day, you got mostly middle-mangling. Henry > Hal or Harry. Elizabeth > Bess.

And in the mid-late 19th century, you got some truly creative alterations. Sarah > Sadie. Mehitable > Hitty. Elizabeth > Betsy or Betty.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. How about Harry for Henry and Sally for Sarah?

[asthmaticeog]

20. "When Henry Met Sarah" didn't have the right ring to it.

*ducks thrown objects*

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Sure it does. Just set it in the 19th century is all *l*

[InvisibleTouch]

22. Chuck for Charles is another one.

This is a neat thread. I've always wondered how they got Bob for Robert, too, and some of the others that have been mentioned.

To the linguists who have answered, thanks for the insight!

[Patiod]

40. Don't know about "chuck", but "Chaz" sounds cool

My dad is a Charles, and it's obvious where Chaz comes from -- the abbreviation for Charles is Chas.

[u4ic]

24. "Jack" for John

:shrug:

[HereSince1628]

33. I know, I know, its the guckert thing, easier to prounounce!!

And easier to spell, too.

[FlashHarry]

43. That one always mystified me.

Both monosyllabic. No economy of brevity there. Weird.

[Floogeldy]

25. How about "Dave" for David, or "Steve" for Stephen?

I never understood those.

[JI7]

26. or Dick for Richard

i have always wondered about that one.

[Skittles]

28. Nell for Eleanor nt

[Dogmudgeon]

29. There's usually several mutations involved

Shortening of the name is the most common way of forming a nickname -- but you probably thought of that one pretty quick. Many languages also have a series of suffixes, like the post about Russian names discusses. (May I add, it was a horrowshow post!)

Changes in particular clusters of letters has a long history but most people aren't familiar with the idea, though we all use it in speech every day.

Most languages, especially those that have regular changes in sounds, will produce variant names. It's very easy to see in English its very oldest verbs (come-->came, sit-->sat, fall-->fell) and plural nouns (man-->men, mouse-->mice). "Jenny" was originally a nickname for "Jane", then came to be the nickname for Gaelic girls' names indicating purity, such as Guinevere, meaning pure (or white) breast.

In Latin, the changes are usually on consonants (rex-->regis ("king", nominative and genitive) lux-->lucis ("light", N and Gen)). The name "Regis" is almost extinct (Mr. Philbin is a holdout) but "Lucy" is enjoying a surge of popularity. And, of course, both Amanda and Amy are Latin-based names, from "amore", to love.

In Celtic languages, there is an entire system of vowels that change according to case, tense, and mood; something similar exists in Hungarian and Finnish. Celtic also changes initial vowels in some words, which MAY explain Margaret-->Peg; Irish Gaelic has *m-->*b and *mh-->*bh, and "b" is the voiced version of "p". I believe that Irish Gaelic also gave us the *r<-->*l conversion we hear in Sarah-->Sally and Mary-->Molly (Kelly comes from a place-name).

I'm sure I'm forgetting any number of other reasons for inexplicable nicknames, but this is the main reason behind sound shifts.

I hope this helped. Or at least bored you enough for a sound night's sleep.

--p!

[Kire]

35. what's a horrowshow?

:wtf:

[asthmaticeog]

36. "Clockwork Orange" joke

"Horrorshow" is used in that book to mean "very good," a bit of slang Anthony Burgess derivied from the Russian word "khorosho" ("Good" or "well").

[Kire]

37. kinda like Michael Jackson's 'Bad'?

I'm glad I asked.

[Dogmudgeon]

39. You shoulda seen the original word I used

It was molodyets -- "fantastic".

But then I thought more people would get the Clockwork Orange reference, and be amused.

--p!

[China_cat]

38. And then there's weird throwbacks like my family

Merle was called Nick, Robert Sr was Archie, Goldie (her real name) was called Bess and I ended up Sam (female and far from that as a real name)

And asking why was NOT permitted.

[Patiod]

41. My uncle Percival was called "Punk"

even when he was in his 70s. For formal occassions, he went by his middle name (Thomas).

I ask you what kind of family names a child Percival Thomas Alysious, even in 1915. And they wondered why he was constantly getting into fights.

[China_cat]

42. I had a great uncle

born about 1900 who was named Claire. Everyone in the family called him Stinky.

[XNASA]

44. I always thought it had something to do same names within a family.

For instance, if a son was born, and was named John, but his father was also named John....then the son would be called Jack as to not be confused with the father.

Same with Michael/Mick and Richard/Dick and Robert/Bob, etc.

:shrug: