My Question

[atreides1]

If Israel is a democracy, and is in the Middle East. Why doesn't the Shrub administration use it as an example of democracy in the Middle East.

We keep hearing how Iraq is to become a shining beacon of democracy in that part of the world.

Does this mean that the US is finally admitting that Israel isn't really a democracy.

[La_Serpiente]

1. Good question

First of all, all Muslim countries in the region hate Israel, so it could never be a model for Democracy in the region.

Now, Kristol and his gang at PNAC believe that Iraq will be a shining example of Democracy in the middle east. I'm not sure. When the New Iraqui Constitution comes out, I expect that it will be radically different than that of any other Western-style Constitution we have ever seen. Even more different than Germany and Japan.

Will Democracy work? I'm not sure. There is Indonesia, but they haven't faced the same issues that the Middle Eastern region has faced.

One reason why I was against this war was that there was no legitimacy for the American in the region. All the surrounding neighbors want us out of there, including Jordan.

We will see in the coming months whether Iraq will be a success or not. However, in my opinion, I am already seeing the evidence of a severely stratified society if Bush does succeed. This is based on ethnicity, religion, and class.

[atreides1]

2. What You Say Makes Sense

But the administration has stated that it will be an example of democracy for the entire region, not just specifically for Muslims.

Most of the PNAC gang are pro-Israel, and in my opinion would sell out this country in a heartbeat. Very few if any have ever fought for the US, and have spent their lives filling their pockets at the tax payers expense.

But look how long it took, and the lives that were lost for Indonesia
to finally achieve some semblance of democracy. Could the reason that it took so long be US involvement in propping up a tyrant.

I'm a veteran, I was against this war, mainly because it was based on lies and the governments use of fear. Now we are being told that Saddam had to be removed because he was a tyrant. Well several of this
administrations allies are also tyrants, so that reason is bogus. And let's not forget that 324 Americans and 60 British soldiers have lost their lives because of weapons programs, not actual weapons.

I don't see Bush succeeding, not without him sacrificing the American people. He will do this by pushing for more tax cuts, and cutting more social programs. Very few jobs will be created, homelessness will rise, the elderly will start to die beacuse they won't be able to get the medication that they need, and more children will start to go hungry.

This state of affairs has been the catalyst for revolution throughout
the history of the world, it was the nobility acting the same way that this administration along with its cronies and moronic supporters
are acting now that created the reasons for the French Revolution, and history records what happened there.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. You realize, of course, that...

this nonsense about democracy is just a cover for installing a compliant regime. Nothing as nasty as, say, the Shah was, but compliant none the less.

Israel can't be used as an example of democracy because it is Israel, and Arabs aren't going to look at it favorably under any circumstances.

Turkey, though, is already a pretty good, if not perfect, example of a democratic Muslim country, but it seems to have been ignored through all of this.

Iran is becoming a democracy, and is doing it all by itself, with all of the attendant messiness of defining itself politically.

Nope, democracy has little or nothing to do with it. The PNAC documents are full of control and hegemony, not national self-determination.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. That is what the Israeli settlements in Iraq will do!

Those who survive regime military operations will have the chance not only to see Israeli democracy in action, but be a real part of it, just like the Palestinians!