Matrix Reloaded Question ****SPOILERS INSIDE*****

[THUNDER HANDS]

What the hell was up with the "Architect" guy?

I don't think he's really the guy who created the Matrix. I think he's just an architect program and the real guy who created it will be revealed in the 3rd movie.

I mean, if he really was the architect, then why didn't Neo just kill him and end the whole thing?

And who was the guy on the slab at the end?

Sorry if I'm spoiling anything, but for those who've seen it and pondered it...what's the deal?

[youngred]

1. The Guy on the slab

is the human who smith took over at the beginning of the movie and who betrayed Zion to the machines by setting off the EMP.

It's Smith and Neo, that's what the movie's all about

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. and the architect guy?

[youngred]

3. I'm not sure I agree

Neo couldn't kill him because he didn't have a weapon and because the war isn't over with his death. The Architect isn't important to kill, its stopping the sentinells that is important. I think he is important to the 3rd part of the movie too.

The previews all seem to indicate that the Neo/Smith relationship is the final straw to end all the wars.

[THUNDER HANDS]

4. well, is the architect guy "IN" the Matrix?

Or was that place somewhere outside of it?

If he was in the Matrix, then Neo could have killed him...and it would also mean that the architect guy was a program.

But if it's not in the Matrix, then Neo shouldn't have been able to even seen him because how can Neo (who's in the Matrix) have seen a guy who's not in it?

[toddzilla]

5. i think they are going for some kind of 13th floor deal..

but i'm not sure..

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. 13th floor?

what's that?

[youngred]

7. it is and it isn't

its in the back halls of the matrix (remember the security neo went through to get there). The Architect is a program, no more no less. He doesn't control anything in the matrix anymore, he was the creator but I don't think he has anything to do with anything.

The problem is stopping Smith/The Sentinels now

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. are you sure?

He said he's destroyed Zion six times already. So obviously the whole Matrix thing is a self-replicating program.

But is every "The One" a guy who looks like Neo? What was up with all the little Neo's on the tv screens around him?

I usually don't get this confused during a movie.

If every 'one' is Neo, then isn't Neo thus a program, and not a human?

:shrug:

[youngred]

19. Not he did, the machines

remember the machines have a very collectivist mindset, and yes the machines have destroyed Zion 6 times, but he also said that 99% of the population accepts the Matrix, some parts do not. At some point those people will "wake up" and begin a new Zion, freeing new minds etc. The Neo's around him are his different reactions and feelings thing.

The thing about Neo, and agent smith, is how they are growing to resemble each other. Neo is becoming more and more machine-like (notice his use of sunglasses during action sequences when he must be his most robotic), and Smith more human (emotions, vindictiveness, and man can he replicate). Neo cannot be a program because he has a real world body.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Smith is a rogue program that is infecting the matrix with a virus

the question I have is whether the "real world" outside of the matrix is in fact another cyber reality. Remember when Neo destroys those machines after the ship crashes? How could he possibly do that if he is a mere human? No, I think that the world outside the matrix is in fact another simulation.

[FDRrocks]

13. Thats my suspicion as well

But it almost seems to obvious, but it is really but I believe, but its too obvious, but... ah I hate the goddamned Matrix, at least they are waiting forever to finish it off.

[youngred]

20. I think that's too obvious

I think (and hope) they will definitely not go that route. Rather I think that its a manifestation of Neo as the one. Many non-western religions believe in the idea of the mind over the body. Neo may be the one who can do the same things in both the matrix and the real world by using the power of his mind over his body

[Supply Side Jesus]

14. I wanted to kill the architect!!

his whole leagalize babble was just straight annoying.
I cuaght what he was saying...but give me friggin break with the mind twists...
What was up with neo emp blasting that machine out of the matrix.
There better be some explaining to do in revolutions, because reloaded was overall an annoying film that had great promise.

[MoonGod]

18. I actually had the impression that...

... the Smith guy in Zion had probably done the same thing as Neo, as opposed to "setting off" the EMP. That would explain why they were both in the same apparently comatose state at the end.

Either way, I found it to be a rather clumsy movie, but I still liked it because it asked many of the same kinds of questions I ask and came up with some fairly amusing answers for a couple.

[youngred]

21. Well no, he was said to be the only survivor of the attack

that destroyed the hovercraft fleet. He is also the same person that was bringing the message from the Oracle to Neo and who didn't make it back (right before Neo woke up and went on his midnight walk). He was also the one trying to get his shipmates to volunteer to go with Neo (so he could sabotage him directly)

[FDRrocks]

9. It's been a while but...

Wouldn't killing the architect destroy they world? Or couldn't the architect get him first. That guy was pretty intense. I think he tricked Neo, frankly, and 'real'-world Agent Smith better get the shit beat out of him. I can't believe the matrix folks don't recognize him, its like clark kent syndrome.

Read your replies to other posts: I think the Architect is out of the matrix, but possibly controls both worlds. What did you make of Neo excercising power at the end of Reloaded in the 'real' world?

REVOLUTIONS IS GONNA ROCK! The title implies a happy ending.

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. I think it means

That Neo has the capability to exert power over both worlds. As long as he's dealing with electrical machines in the real world.

Oh, and now that the ship is destroyed, where are they gonna plug into the Matrix?

[FDRrocks]

11. I imagine the other ships had matrix ports...

Not sure if all of them were docked in Zion or caught by those things or whatever, but somewhere? Maybe it all takes place in the 'real' world (edit: The third movie). I want to believe it all ends up well, I mean "Revolutions" definately implies a change, probably for the better in that situation. I still get the impression that thier reality is still fantasy.

But knowing the Wachowksawwiswqiwoawsosski brothers, who knows. Next month is going to answer some questions!

[WindRavenX]

15. Smith has to be a virus

And because of that fact, Smith could totally have the Architect say anything he wanted...
Revolutions should be great. I think a lot of people were disapointed in "Reloaded" simply because they couldn't see "Revolutions" next :)

[7th_Sephiroth]

17. probably

the architect said that a small percent couldent handle the matrix, so i figure the world of "zion" is yet another part of the matrix, to keep power output at a maximum, in the animatrix, the storyline goes that robots are invinted and all is well, than one actually killis its owners *and all thier kitties* and the robot is tried and destroyed, from then, most robots are destroyed and the survivors create thier own civilization. From then the robots start a war by nukeing the U.N. after the representitives they send are destroyed, from there (and a HUGE hole in the story line) the robot cities are nuked *nukes create GIANT E.M.P.'s* the robots survive and enslave humanity, you get the rest. As for smith, he kept coming back after getting killed, so i think neo's "the one" code was imprinted on smith's code, and think about it, if machines REALLY had the world taken over, would they leave it in complete ruin for hundreads of years?

[salmonhorse]

16. My thought is that "the "Architect" guy"...

...is only a residue, or latent imprint of the external "Architect" = Creator of The Matrix but is within and so in this case, oddly enough, therefore dis-associated by way of a form of separation anxiety from his 'creation' because he is in fact not a viable component of it, again oddly enough, by non-virtue of the fact that he has no relationship to human self; witness, at least for me, by the level of utter pretention contained within his ruminations upon how multi-dimentional, how important 'his' notions = The Matrix's notions were intended to be that are in the end so very prone to chaos in any event.

The first compu programs run to simulate AI were based upon the human neurosis. They were simple, known, and offered a myriad of easily referenced response codes. Easy to program. Predict. "the "Architect" guy" struck me as just such an individual = program while granted having, ostensibly or by his own epitaph so created, made some contribution to The Matrix. Perhaps in the end...only from within.

[Az]

22. The Matrix as I see it (potential heavy spoilers for next movie)

There are no humans. They all died in the first war with the machines. The notion that machines would use humans as batteries instead of fusion is ludicrous.

So what is going on. Machines and humans had developed alongside each other. Most machines had very specific purposes (clean the streets, build more machines) but the higher AI machines had serving humans as their primary purpose. Once the confrontation was over and the human race was wiped out things began to wind down. The specific purpose machines would continue following their coding until they completed their tasks or ran down. But the higher order machines had lost their purpose already. With the death of the humans the machines had doomed themselves.

One of the machines had a purpose of preserving life. Organic life had been destroyed. Yet there was still machine life. However without purpose this too would be lost. So the Architect set about attempting to build an alternate source for purpose. He created the Matrix to give the machines purpose. When new programs were made some of them were assigned the task of 'playing' a human. The identity of human was implanted on the code when it was first created. This was a tricky procedure and did not always work. The programs it failed to take on were discarded.

Thus the Matrix gave purpose to many levels of machines. The humans purpose was to go about being humans. The various programs that constituted the world had the purpose of creating a world for the humans. Then there were the higher AI programs dedicated to managing the systems as well.

There was a problem though. No matter how they coded it sooner or later on of the human programs would wake up to the fact that they were a machine. This would lead to a system wide catastrophic failure. Once they realised they were machines their purpose would fail and they would stop. A number of iterations were attempted all with the same anamoly.

Eventually they realised the problem was in their formulaic methodology. They needed a program that could think in ways they could not. To this end they created the Oracle. The Oracle either is an analog machine or had errors deliberately encoded into it. In either case it is an aberation to the thinking of the other machines. However it was able to see a solution to the problem they faced. The Oracle came up with the idea of Zion. When a program began to wake to the notion that it was in fact a machine they would extract it from the main program and present it with another reality thus keeping it deluded still. This new reality was that humans were captive batteries for the machines and that they some could be freed. This had multiple benefits. The waking programs became the solution to their own problem. That is the Zionists would watch for waking programs and extract them thus keeping the illusion that they are humans intact.

Yet the problem continued. Even with Zion in place the anamoly would arise and a Zionist would wake to the reality that they were still a machine being deluded to believe it was a human. This is where the Oracles real plan took hold. The Architect and the other AIs wanted to simply preserve life as it was. Stasis. The Oracle realised that stasis was not possible and thus the path she set them on was one of growth and evolution. Her intent was to make a machine that had its own purpose rather than looking to others for its sense of purpose.

Neo has no purpose. All other programs are given a purpose. Morpheus's purpose is to find the anamoly. Trinity's purpose is to verify(love) the anamoly. etc. But Neo has no idea what his purpose is and in fact the Oracle makes sure he is never given a true sense of what his purpose is. He must discover his own purpose. To this end the Oracle made sure that he was raised with a sense of connection with positive factors such as love and compassion.

The problem came from Neo's interaction with Smith. Smith had purpose. Smith was an agent. When Neo detroyed Smith he detroyed his purpose. Smith fell on a similar path to Neo. He was going to find his own purpose. However his background was seated in death and oblivion. Where Neo is seeking life Smith is death.

There are several clues in the movie pointing this out. Several things we the audience simply gloss over assuming its just poetic license on the part of the directors. The human batteries, Smith taking over the Zionist in the "real" world, Neo zapping the squids. All these are either ludicrous or impossible within the context of the world created in the film.

Any way that is the bulk of my theory about the Matrix. We shall soon see if it pans out. And remember, there is no spoon.