Can Someone Explain North Side / South Side Chicago Feud?

[Yavin4]

Can someone explain how two parts of the same city hate each other? Or do they?

[Catch22Dem]

1. Easy

White Sox vs. Cubs

[RetroLounge]

2. and both teams pretty much suck

but our Cubbies sucked less than usual...

[kanrok]

3. I'm a South Sider, born and raised

I'm a product of my environment. I will try to explain my irrational hatred for the Cubs (not necessarily the North Side, but growing up I thought it was just as strange as California, it had all those crooked streets and unnatural habitats). My belief is that growing up in Chicago as a sports fan, you are branded early as a Sox or Cubs fan. I happen to hate everything "Cubs." It stems from the fact that the Cubs were perceived as the baseball team of the privileged class. At least from my humble perspective. They still are. My contention is that rooting for the Cubs is like voting for a Republican. I just can't do it. Being a Chicago native does not mean that you have to support every team in town. There used to be quite a difference in Chicago between Bear fans and (football) Cardinal fans. The football Cardinals were a Chicago franchise. My father died hating the Bears. I maintained his irrational hatred for the Cubs, but I am still a die-hard Bears fan. I suspect there are similar feelings in New York between Mets and Yankee fans. I'd really like to hear the take from a NYC person's perspective. I'm a proud Democrat and a proud White Sox fan. I'm really sorry for that Bartman guy, but, in reality, I have to say, I'm really glad the Cubs stepped on their collective dicks.

[Paragon]

4. Yeah, WHUTeva!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/alt/alt_features/liam_whatever.shtml

[kanrok]

6. Sorry that the Cubbies suck so much, really

:nopity:

[Paragon]

9. Yeah, WHUTeva!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/alt/alt_features/liam_whatever.shtml

[kanrok]

15. You should change your avatar to the Marlins

Oops...I forgot, I'm talkin' to the hand.

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. Jerry Reinsdorf owns the White Sox.

I have met him through business. He is a repuke.

[kanrok]

7. What's that got to do with Sox "fans"?

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. Your post where you said Cubs fans are Republicans. Some are, some are no

kanrok (486 posts) Wed Oct-15-03 11:01 PM
Response to Original message

3. I'm a South Sider, born and raised


I'm a product of my environment. I will try to explain my irrational hatred for the Cubs (not necessarily the North Side, but growing up I thought it was just as strange as California, it had all those crooked streets and unnatural habitats). My belief is that growing up in Chicago as a sports fan, you are branded early as a Sox or Cubs fan. I happen to hate everything "Cubs." It stems from the fact that the Cubs were perceived as the baseball team of the privileged class. At least from my humble perspective. They still are. My contention is that rooting for the Cubs is like voting for a Republican. I just can't do it. Being a Chicago native does not mean that you have to support every team in town. There used to be quite a difference in Chicago between Bear fans and (football) Cardinal fans. The football Cardinals were a Chicago franchise. My father died hating the Bears. I maintained his irrational hatred for the Cubs, but I am still a die-hard Bears fan. I suspect there are similar feelings in New York between Mets and Yankee fans. I'd really like to hear the take from a NYC person's perspective. I'm a proud Democrat and a proud White Sox fan. I'm really sorry for that Bartman guy, but, in reality, I have to say, I'm really glad the Cubs stepped on their collective dicks.

I want my friggin' country back!

[kanrok]

11. No, read my post C A R E F U L L Y

Quote: "my contention is that rooting for the Cubs is like voting for a Republican." It's my opinion. A considered opinion at that. I was born and raised in Chicago. You can disagree with me if you want. It's a free country.

[greatauntoftriplets]

14. I did read it carefully and it is FAR from the same thing.

It is a free country for North Siders too, well as much as numbnuts and John Ashcroft allow that these days. My North Side neighborhood is solidly progressive (Democratic and further left, that is) and solidly Cubs fans.

And what did you mean by "unnatural habits"????

[kanrok]

20. You're WAY too sensitive on this subject

Sorry your Cubbies suck. It's really not your fault. Nor is growing up on the North Side. You just have a different take on things. Growing up I believed people on the North Side were strange. Crooked streets and so forth. Being a Cub fan is an example of an un-natural habit from a South-Sider's perspective.

[greatauntoftriplets]

21. You don't like women challenging your opinion? Get used to it.

Crooked streets follow old Native American trails. That is part of Chicago history. What about Archer Avenue, that is crooked as hell? Or get a map.

The White Sox truly sucked this year. Did they make the playoffs???? NO! It's not your fault, it is the fault of your different take on things.

[kanrok]

23. Nah, I don't mind women challenging my opinion at all

I've got two daughters and my wife CONSTANTLY challenging just about everything I do. It's my lot in life, and I truly love it. As for Archer Avenue, is that the best you can do? Sometimes the part in my hair looks like Archer (sometimnes like Ogden Avenue as well) But NEVER like Milwaukee, or Halstead, or Six Corners....geez how does anyone find their way around the North Side? As for the Sox, they didn't really suck until the last series with the Twins. Then they REALLY sucked, big time. They showed absolutely no heart in that series. Again....sorry about the Cubbies. They REALLY choked. :nopity:

[greatauntoftriplets]

24. Halsted is straight.

It is streets like clark, Lincoln and Elston that are not. Buy a map or ask directions.

[kanrok]

26. Just testing you

Again, sorry about how bad your Cubbies choked. :cry:
Don't need a map, I just try to stay away from the North Side.

[XNASA]

29. It's "Halsted" on both sides of town.

Q: "What kind of Chicagoan doesn't know how to spell "Halsted"?"

A: "A South Sider."

[kanrok]

38. What kind of Chicagoan is critical of a minor misspelling?

Oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth....:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: So sorry the Cubbies choked like a porn star at a Johnny Wad festival.

[JVS]

41. Choked like Mama Cass eating a sandwich!

:D

[City Lights]

31. This sums it up for me.

"My contention is that rooting for the Cubs is like voting for a Republican."

It's not the White Sox this Cubs fan despises. It's their fans.

[Rich Hunt]

36. oh yeah?

Speaking as a south sider who lived in Wrigleyville, I can tell you that the hatred for our fans is based on sheer class prejudice.

We had one drunk fan attack a first base coach. Thousands of Sox fans wrote letters to Tom Gamboa apologizing for that fan and wishing him well. Tom Gamboa said that he didn't hold it against all Sox fans.

But the north siders, being good company men and women, willingly believe the sleazy tabloid b.s. about us and our "fans".

I wouldn't talk about fans anymore after Cub fans displayed a lynch mob mentality.

And having lived in the park, you might want to explain why, just a few weeks ago, I sat on a bus full of north siders during a playoff game who were complaining about drunken, badly behaved Cub fans. The same goes for the residents of Wrigleyville.

So you can take your prejudiced attitudes toward south siders and shove it.

By the way, I graduated from Northwestern - next person who says that south siders are stupid is going to get it from me.

[City Lights]

42. Oooooo, hit me with your best shot.

I can't speak for other Cubs fans, but my dislike for Sox fans has nothing to do with "sheer class prejudice."

You made lots of accusations and lots of assumptions in your post. I personally don't give a shit where you went to college. You must really be insecure if you think graduating from Northwestern will raise your stature in my eyes. It makes no difference to me where, or even if you went to college. It's not about the college you attended. It's about you . You've got a chip on your shoulder, and it's not a pretty sight.

"But the north siders, being good company men and women, willingly believe the sleazy tabloid b.s. about us and our "fans"."

What sleazy tabloid b.s. do I need to read to learn about Sox fans? Read your post. It's filled with bile.

I was raised a Cubs fan, however, I wasn't raised to "hate" the Sox or their fans. In my family, there was only one team in town - the Cubs. We didn't root for or against the Sox. We didn't really pay any attention to them. We were happy just loving our Cubbies. I never felt the need to prove my loyalty to the Cubs by hating the Sox.

My dislike for their fans built up through the years based on things Sox fans said and did. I remember reading nasty letters to the editor, and nasty articles from at least one local columnist. To these people it was never enough to just be a Sox fan. They also had to HATE the Cubs. I could never understand it - I still don't. I don't hate the Sox and I never will.

You remind me of a neighbor I used to have. They were from Milwaukee and loved the Packers. We were Bears fans. When the Bears played the Packers, it wasn't good enough for them to have a "Go Packers" party, they had to have a "Bears Suck" party. Being pro-Packers wasn't enough, they had to be anti-Bears.

Why isn't it enough for you to just love the Sox?

I stand by my statement. I do despise Sox fans.

Your post made my point better that I ever could.

[kanrok]

39. I can live with that.

:cry: Sorry about the big choke.

[City Lights]

43. Sarcasm.

Thanks for proving my point.

I'm a hardened Cubs fan. I've watched them choke before and I'll watch them choke again.

[JVS]

10. I am no expert on the matter, but I believe it is about social class.

There is a reason that the song "Bad bad Leroy Brown" takes place on the Southside of Chicago. It is the rougher part of the city. For details see the baseball episode of "Gene Shepard's America"

[kanrok]

12. Ahhhhhhhh....JVS

You are truly wise and knowledgeable.

[JackDragna]

13. My dad's take

My dad lived in Western Chicago for a while. The White Sox were the team of the Catholics and ethnics whereas the Cubs were the team of Protestants and the better off. Rivalries developed in many ways because what team you rooted for said something about who you were.

[greatauntoftriplets]

16. I am Irish

and a recovering Catholic. Quite ethnic and hardly a Protestant

On edit: My sig line is a tribute to my ethnicity.

[greatauntoftriplets]

17. Double post.

[kanrok]

18. As an ethnic Catholic

I must say, your father is on the money.

[HuckleB]

27. Interesting.

All the west Chicago Catholics I know -- and I know far too many of them -- have always been Cub fans.

[stickdog]

19. The Cubs have a field. The Sox have a prefab stadium.

Cubs fans get drunk and loud.

Sox fans get drunk and start fighting.

Meanwhile, the South Side has the best rib joints and used to have all the real Blues clubs.

The North Side has got the nicest neighborhoods, the best local pubs and the best pizza.

[kanrok]

22. Sorry

The best pizza in the city is on 31st Street. It's called Home Run Inn. I admit (albeit reluctantly) that Wrigley is in a class all it's own. Comiskey (I will NEVER call it "Cellular Field"...hey wait, I just did...Oh, hell, shoot me) seems like a shopping mall. It's not a bad place to watch a game (unless you're in the upper deck) but it's pretty sterile. The architects who designed it, designed Camden Yards. Why Reinsdorf didn't do something similar is beyond me. I'd also like someone to explain to me why home plate is not directed towards downtown Chicago. It's a tremendous view from that neighborhood. It would have been a perfect focal point. As a case-in-point, go see the ball field at UIC (just a tad bit north of Comiskey) from the batter's box downtown looms. It is a magnificent view at night.

[stickdog]

28. Home Run Inn, eh?

I'll give it a try.

[City Lights]

32. I've been to that place the White Sox

call their home. It, like their fans, sucks.

[kanrok]

40. Ohhhhh....now that hurts.

[HuckleB]

25. Dude, don't ask.

At this point in history, it's a feud between a few loudmouths on each side. They'll tell you differently, of course. Their identities appear to be enmeshed with the historic feud that they can't let go. But, for most, it's just a big joke, in this day and age.

[XNASA]

30. You're all missing the point of the question.

The question is, "Can someone explain how two parts of the same city hate each other? Or do they?"

It doesn't mention baseball. If it were about baseball, then the answer is easy.

But here's the real reason.

The Northside is the artsy side of town. It's filled with great restaurants and theaters. The Northside is more melodramatic and ostentatious if you will. The most expensive property in town is on the Northside. It's chi-chi. Most professionals live on the Northside.

The Southside is the blue-collar, shot & a beer side of town. It's the opposite of the Northside in more than just the name.

Here's an example. The biggest parade on the Southside of town is the Southside Irish Parade on St. Paddy's Day. The biggest parade on the Northside, is the Gay and Lesbian Pride Parade.

I've been to both. Both are a lot of fun. But they couldn't be more different.

[Red_Storm]

33. Easy ............

The north side has the best restaurants....
The south side has the best blues clubs...

:)

[Ellen Forradalom]

34. They really are two different worlds

Chicago is a heterogenous town with insular tendencies. It is better described as a series of contiguous villages, each with its own culture and politics.

The divisions and rivalries stem from the ethnic-enclave days, and still linger in the air even though many of the original inhabitants have passed on, assimilated, and/or moved to the suburbs. The political structure in Chicago was based on representing ethnic constituencies in a given geographic area, which is why the ethnicity of the mayor has always been such a big deal. The election of a WASP mayor, an Irish mayor, a Czech mayor, an African-American mayor was the culmination of a major political struggle. The rise of gay political power in Chicago seems to be following this model, with the first openly gay alderman representing Lakeview.

The class divisions alluded to above are because although Chicago was industrial all over, most of the really heavy industry was on the South Side, and the fancier neighborhoods up North. Nowadays the Cubs are seen as the team of the yuppies, but in the days of Mike Royko that was assuredly not the case.

The North Side, the South Side and the West Side remain distinct worlds that don't often mix, and within each world are neighborhoods that keep one another at arms' length. Chicago remains highly racially segregated, although this is slowly changing over time. I haven't seen a true burning hatred among the sides of this town; rather pride of place in one's own and a mild disdain for the other sides of town.

[Guaranteed]

35. The north side had sex with the south side's sister

back in nineteen dickety-two (thank you Grandpa Simpson).

[slappypan]

37. they talked about this on PBS the other night

At the turn of the century, South Side was predominantly Irish and the North Side was predominantly German. The baseball teams' fan base reflected this, and the differences in style remain today with the White Sox fans being considered rowdier and working class, while the Cubs fans are considered more suburban and bourgeois. The South Side Irish head of the Chicago's Fire Department even made a crack during the playoff games, how he wouldn't blow the city sirens if the Cubs won, so the Cub fans wouldn't "spill their Chardonnay."