Mystic River

[jiacinto]

Did anyone see this movie? I have the book but haven't read it yet.

Some points:

1) What is the point of the police officer's wife on the phone or that recurring scene where she is silent? It seems to add nothing to the movie.

Or does the book explain it better?

2) What is the deal with Dave's being molested? What is the connection between that story and the death of the the third man's daughter? Or does the book explain it better? I don't see why that's relevant to the movie or why it takes up so much screen time. They don't connect that childhood event to the present story, except to state that that's why Dave is so messed up.

3) Katie's mother has a few evil lines at the end of the film. Why does she act like such a bitch? Or is she more bitchy in the book?

4) The Harris Family. I just don't understand the relationship between Chris's father and Katie's father. It just really confuses me.

Can someone explain the movie to me? Or does the book give the storyline justice as the movie really doesn't?

[calm_blue_ocean]

1. I can't answer your questions . . .

because I walked out of Mystic River after 20 or 30 minutes. I seldom go to the movies and I think this is the first movie I ever walked out of.

I went because the movie got good reviews -- I think the reviewers said things like "gripping." I thought it was contrived and melodramatic, but maybe the movie got better after I walked out.

[jiacinto]

2. Ok nt

nt

[NaMeaHou]

3. That surprises me

I haven't seen it yet, but have read a ton of reviews about it, and it sounds great. What made you walk out?

The only people I've ever seen walking out of a movie was "Leaving Las Vegas" years ago. I loved that movie.

[calm_blue_ocean]

4. Contrived and melodramatic

specific examples:

The abduction seemed unrealistic, the clergyman in the car flashing his Cross ring -- like Snidely Whiplash or The Penguin. I don't think molestation by Catholic clergy looks like that in real life.

The background story of Kevin Bacon getting told at the scene of a fatal incident on a busy highway. Stopping to talk about his marriage and potential love life in that context seemed overly contrived.

The young women coming in and immediately starting to dance on the bar -- an inexplicably gutsy move for underage drinkers these days.

The First Communion scene (this is about where I walked out).



Maybe these scenes could have worked for me if there had been some level of ironic detachment (think Blue Velvet). With the way the movie was directed and photographed all the scenes seemed manipulative and overbearing.

I kept thinking of the line from "Sweet Jane": "Where villains never blink their eyes / and poets followed rules of verse."

ps: I loved Leaving Las Vegas, too. They had a great NPR interview with Nicholas Cage a couple years back where he talked about watching Alec Guiness play a drunk in some movie.

[Lindsey]

5. I just saw it today and I thought it was awesome

I can give my take on a couple of your questions.
1) I think that the Kevin Bacon character's marital problems was meant to illustrate that none of these men had come out of the horrifying event of their childhood unscathed.
2)Tim Robbins character's severe emnotional damage made him a prime suspect in the killing of Sean Penn's daughter.
3)Ray Harris (who was Sean Penn's daughter's boyfriends father) was killed by Sean Penn for ratting on him years ago. It was Sean Penn who was sending the $500 to the Harris family all of those years.
4)The gal who played Sean Penn's wife, from the very beginning, seemed to be a little off. It seemed to be in line with her character to try to assure Sean Penn that she didn't blame him for killing Tim robbins.

[baby_bear]

6. Lindsey, I agree with all your observations but...

I just saw this today also. For the life of me, I could not figure out the motive or purpose (in the film's message or whatever) of Jimmy's wife's behavior at the end of the film, i.e., in the bedroom with Jimmy and then giving Dave's widow Celeste (who presumably didn't know she was a widow) that superior look across the street at the parade march.

I thought the film should have ended with Sean and Jimmy standing in the neighborhood street when they both realized that Jimmy had offed Dave and that none of them - including Dave and themselves - had truly survived their childhood, or that abduction incident.

Up to that point, I thought it was great.

By the way, I read where the author of the novel actually did experience that abduction, and premised his novel on that.

s_m

[jiacinto]

7. Yeah I didn't understand the wife's behavior at the end

either.

[stanwyck]

9. This is the significance of "that look"

between Laura Linney and Marcia Gay Harden. Linney's character, the vengeful/criminal side of the neighborhood, has won. Jimmy is, again, a murderer after being straight for several years. The characters had all been playing at being good citizens, good wives and husbands and parents. But, underneath, there was the history of violence and crime. Katie's death brought it all back. Marcia Gay Harden (Celeste) thought she had done the right thing in confiding in Jimmy. She's a victim. Linney is the predator. They're symbols of their neighborhood and the forces at work.

[stanwyck]

8. It's Shakespearian/Greek tragedy

Maybe it worked for me because I'd read the book. It's a complex story of the three men and their neighborhood. Maybe the moviemakers tried to pack too much into the movie. But if you went expecting Charlies Angels mindlessness, you were right to walk out. The movie actually treated the audience as though we have intelligence and took it's time to develop the story. There was actual dialogue that meant something. It followed the book well. The relationships between the families is very important, both by blood relationships and by "business"...crime. Jimmy Markham and Ray Harris had been teenage thieves together, both with pregnant wives. Harris rolled on Jimmy; Jimmy (Sean Penn) served time. Jimmy wasn't there while his wife died of cancer (Katie's mother). When Jimmy got out, he killed Ray. Later, that murder has retribution for Jimmy when Katie is killed. Katie's mother is dead. Jimmy's second wife is played by Laura Linney, the sister of the criminal Savage brothers. She's a Lady McBeth figure. She's vengeful. Which is the core of the cycle of violence. Dave Boyle's story is the aftermath of being molested as a child. Because of his history, he's under suspicion..."damaged goods" as one character says. And the molestation did lead him to a vengeful act; just not the one that leads to his death. Sean's (Kevin Bacon's character) marital problems are not really that well explained in the book, either. He and Dave and Jimmy have been able to coast: Dave is a reliable father and husband; Jimmy has gone straight as the owner of the market, and Sean is a detective. But they're all "damaged goods" due to their childhood. And Katie's death changes everything.

[calm_blue_ocean]

10. You make a good point about Shakespeare

I don't like watching Olivier do Shakespeare -- I find that melodramatic, too.

I am more of an "Elelphant Man" person than an "It's A Wonderful Life" type person. ("It's a Wonderful Life" is broad and overplayed, like the fragment of Mystic River I saw.) Does this somehow reflect a dim flame of my intellect? I thought it was more a matter of personal cinematic aesthetics.

Confession: I haven't seen Charlie's Angels yet, but I want to because Crispin Glover is my favorite actor.

[stanwyck]

12. I doubt you're a dim flame

but I find it odd people couldn't follow this film. Sean Penn's character has a conversation at four different times explaining the impact of his wife's death (Katie's mother), yet people can't figure out that Katie's mother died and Laura Linney's character is her stepmother. I think too many are used to the wham/bam video game movies like the recent James Bond/Charlies Angels movies. Having to listen and pay attention is a totally different kind of movie. The complexities of loyalties, blood ties, past treacheries, differing stories, importance of "minor" characters is not for those who are used to Hollywood formula movies without ambiguities.
So, you're right: it's a matter of personal cinematic aesthetics. I'm just disappointed that people on this board were so quick to giveup on a more challenging experience than the usual Hollywood connect-the-dots anti-intellectual junk.

[baby_bear]

11. You're right; Lady MacBeth really does explain it.

Somehow I missed or forgot that Jimmy's wife was the sister of the Savage brothers. And thinking of it in MacBeth terms, it all comes together, except for the issue of Sean and his mysteriously disappeared and returned wife and new baby. I don't know about the book, but it could have been left out of the movie completely and not been missed, IMO.

Thanks your your insights, stanwyck.

s_m

[jiacinto]

13. Yeah

I think that the book does a better job of explaining it all.

[MamaBear]

14. She was waiting to hear him say

I'm sorry. The two words Sean couldn't bring himself to say, until the whole tragedy had unfolded before him. The possible redemption of Sean's marriage is the only light at the end of the dark tunnel of the narrative.

A great book, I thought, and a really good movie.

[stanwyck]

15. Good point.

Sean's is the only redemption. Unfortunately, Jimmy is lost. Which is incredibly sad since he had been redeemed by being a father to Katie. And poor Dave. Who was a victim. He tried his own misguided effort at redemption with horrific results. Sean's final message to Jimmy brought the whole conflict into final focus. Sean "mock" shoots at Jimmy. Who shrugs. Who is really in power now? The victims or the predators? And how do you tell the difference? Also, Brandon. What's his future? And Dave's son? It's like the whole sad scenario of the adults lives is going to be replayed.
The movie also didn't explain Brandon's younger brother's "motivation". He didn't want his older brother to leave.