I haven't read all of "Dude" yet, but I have a problem

[Deja Q]

In one chapter, he talks of terrorism and how the US would be liked if it would really do its part, what being the wealthiest nation on Earth, to help feed the mouths of all on this planet.

But in another chapter, denouncing oil :yourock: , he goes on about the petrochemical fertilizers and what not and how we simply cannot support this many humans on this planet.

I haven't finished the book, and while it's nice of him to point out all these problems, the real problem is that I sometimes tend to think beyond the confines of his book. :cry:

I'm thinking sad thoughts right now.

If you had the power, what would you do to satisfy both problems at hand? (a) our use of petrochemical fertilizers is a temporary solution that already can't feed us all, and (b) the population of the world continues to skyrocket. (given the US population is only at 275 million, we're doing something right...)

And can the problem be resolved with a long term solution that requires nobody to make significant sacrifices?

On edit: Perhaps this should be in GD...

[soupkitchen]

1. And can the problem be resolved with a long term solution........?

NO

[Maple]

2. The earth is not overpopulated

nor is it going to be.

More leftover 60s junk

[arcane1]

3. glad we got that solved!

however, I'll maintain my Zero PG attitude, just in case...

[Maple]

6. You do that

we need people who can do math.

[soupkitchen]

5. Like ozone depletion and global warming.

And what's this nonsense about 90 per cent of fish in the world's oceans being depleted.
Jesus Christ will come down from heaven long before the Earth gets overpopulated.

[Maple]

8. Hey...

betcha don't like science when it okays GM food tho do ya?

It ain't a buffet you know...where you can pick and choose whatever backs up your gloomy scenarios.

[alwynsw]

19. Define GM Foods for me

Is that General Mills, or the hybrid corn, beans, rice, etc. ad nauseum we've been eating for over 100 years. Or is it specifically foods that are modified by artificially splicing genes?

I know the come on sounds trite, but many hybrid crops are getting a bad rap because of those that have been altered in traditional laboratories (as opposed to controlled cross pollination).

I believe that the jury is still out on the GM matter. Solid science has yet to prove that GM fruits and vegetables are harmful in any way to humans (Please, let's avoid food allergies. They're no more than anomalies.) or that they have caused any appreciable damage to "naturl" crops.

If you have information (read proof) of such harm, please message me the source, because I'm going to bed soon and may miss your post.

[Deja Q]

10. That's a new one

Of course, given how the media is now telling pregnant women not to eat certain fish because of their high mercury content, the comment isn't utterly bonkers. Personally, I'd love to know HOW 90% of those fish have disappeared...

I should have said "certain countries with very high populations who live in poverty and are starving" instead of generalizing it to the Earth. :eyes: Sorry.

[Maple]

12. No it's not new

Fish contaminated with mercury and GM foods have nothing to do with each other.

And yes, there is lots of room.

Spread out.

[soupkitchen]

15. Trawlers

Miles of nets catching everything in their way.
Actually, the New England fishing Industry has been under government imposed limitations to restore decimated stocks for quite some time.
It's one of the great Government/no government stories. For years the New England fisheries were trying to do this on their own without government intervention, but every year they came up with a plan that might have worked if it was imposed the year before. And so finally in desperation the asked the Federal Government to step in and impose effective laws. The good news being that the fisheries are getting healthier because of Federal intervention

[Deja Q]

7. Have you lived in those highly populated countries?

It's like the crowds at the state fair, but for 24/7 I'd say...

Heck, we're both extremists, just on opposite sides of the same coin.

Just as long as you don't tell me famine and poverty are other "leftover 60s junk" ideas... They exist, especially in those areas of the world that just happen to be overpopulated. Or, rather, have extremely high populations.

[Maple]

9. Everybody on the planet

could live in Texas, in separate single family dwellings.

Don't mistake one crowded city for the planet.

Half of it is wilderness still.

[Friar]

18. you seem to have a problem with evidence

You've decided how things are and you aren't going to be confused by the facts. This is puzzling to me in a DU poster. You can't just make these kinds of statements without referencing them. Well, you can, of course, but you won't get any respect concerning them.
Can you support this position? Got a link? With thousands dying of starvation every hour the planet is extremely overpopulated already and it's only going to get worse.
I guess Global Warming is a left wing hoax.
I feel like I'm starting to bang my head against the wall with you so I'll stop now. Have fun in Wonderland.

[Catholic Sensation]

4. This may not fly well with the leaders of the Catholic Church

but TEACH PROPER CONTRACEPTIVE USE. Now the Bush Administration wants to teach abstinence only sex ed, which is such a stupid proposition I am getting my bags packed for Canada if this idiot is elected (as I've said before, for him to be re-elected, he'd have to have been already elected) in 2004. I say teach the poor proper methods of contraception, that could slow down the massive population growth central america and other poor areas are experiencing.

Onto feeding everyone without using pesticides and shit, I am all for GMO foods. I don't see why some pansy ass environmentalists who don't mind polluting our air by exploding hundreds of SUVs are so angry about GMOs. I wish the idiots in Greenpeace and the ELO would focus all their energy in preventing the idiots in Bush Administration from destroying endangered species or the Alaskan Natural Preserve. I would fund even more research to make GMOs even more widely used.

[Maple]

11. Sure c'mon up

90% of Canada is uninhabited.

And we're the second largest country on the planet.

Only Russia is bigger than us.

[LibertyorDeath]

20. Well thats because

90% of Canada is uninhabitable. Unless you think living in Dawson City is a good thing. Trust me I know I used to live there.

Yeah come on up the ice flows of Hudson Bay await.

Oh almost forgot we could all move to Swiftcurrent or maybe Cornwall

Ontario Yours to Discover

[LibertyorDeath]

21. When I was a little younger only Toronto got Smog alerts

and they weren't that often fast forward to today now all of south western Ontario gets smog alerts from Kingston down to the Niagara peninsula.

So when are we to many 12 20 30 40 Billion were all pissing in the same pool the Mighty St.Lawrence river is a sewer.

6 Billion and everyone wants a Car and clean air and water been to Mexico city lately?

Well maybe the planet can handle more people Problem is the people don't no how to handle the planet.

[Deja Q]

14. When it's properly tested, sure I'll go for GMO too...

Has it been properly tested, complete with long-term results report? That's all I care about. Proper research, study, and testing - forget the "bottom line" $hit, isn't survival and LIFE more important than a frigging dollar?! I will admit, I should do some research here. As I normally don't go out of my way to eat only "organically grown" food, GMO is obviously not big on my "no no" list either. Though I should have the brains to do the research to see if we should be concerned...

But there's no point in eating food that'll shorten our life spans because it contains insane amounts of pollutants or poisons or has been tampered with in unnatural ways that turned out to be "not good" (Amusingly, if the conservative Christians think homosexuality is unnatural, they must be going ape over the genetically modified food they shovel down their throats every day...?)

And I agree with contraception. Forget the Catholic Church and definitely forget Bush, his record of being a dimwitted idiot is second to NOBODY. (he mustn't be elected in 2004.) The ideology is nice, but if too few practice it, then what's the point? We need results, not words and false promises - such like those uttered by Bush and his sickening immoral ilk.

[papau]

13. "1 doubling cycle" before overcrowded, the earth is only 1/2 full

Pick an annual increase in population rate and then devide that into 70- for example at 10% growth a year, the population should double in 7 years.

So when 50% of the earth is unused- uncrowded, you are 7 years away from disaster. When the earth is 75% unused-uncrowded, you are 14 years away from disaster.

Of course at that 14 years before point we would switch from 10% growth per year in population to zero population growth - or would we?

:-)

[Deja Q]

16. Yeah, but we need the space for trees and crops too - this ain't over...

In terms of "people vs land area" argument everybody here has been making, the earth is not overcrowded.

My point, which I stupidly tried to condense, is "overcrowding" in terms of when the planet can't sustain everybody. If Americans were a compassionate people, would we still be able to feed all on this planet? Even with GM food, the dirt and soil has to contain enough nutrients, hence the need for fertilizers. And we still need enough forestry to produce the oxygen we're all compeled to breathe (I miss the old rainforest arguments of the 80s/90s, I wonder what happened...). Yet alone the fact nobody can live in a desert, and in our bottom-line oriented world, nobody could even begin to afford the necessities of living in the middle of a desert.

Oh well.

Live it up while we can I suppose! :party:

[Nikia]

17. We could support almost an infinite # w/ proper planning

We need to stop sprawl. We should all be living in 10+ story buildings. All buildings that do not require the use of heavy equipment or require space for specific manufacturing processes need to be built up too rather than out. We could even build multiple stories underground in some areas. We won't need parking lots because everyone will live within walking distance of their jobs or the public transportation line. This will allow crops and nature to have plenty of room. Perhaps, we could grow some plants hydroponically in multiple story buildings also. We will all eat dense, high yield crops as well. Really, this could work.
Really, currently, distribution is the reason people starve to death. We have plenty of food for everyone. Go to any restaurant and look in the trash. Go to the grocery store. Look at fields of food crops. We have enough food for everyone now and will even if we do not enforce totalitarian regulations that I suggest, for many years to come.
One thing that helps decrease population growth and helps families have a higher income per capita as a result is the education and advancement of women. Most women do not really want to have 6 or 7 children. If women are educated about birth control and feel worth of being more than a mother, they will not have as many children. Having 2 or 3 children instead of 6 or 7 can help those children have enough food to be healthy.
The U.S. and many other industrial countries do use a lot of energy that produces harmful by products. We should work on finding alternatives that are less harmful before we bring the rest of the world to that lifestyle. I see this as the U.S.'s part in the population problem. As I said, we have plenty of food here. The starving here and the rest of the world could be fed.
I think that there are many possibilties with genetically modified foods. I know that some people think that this is playing God, but we really could "create" higher yield crops that are denser in nutrition that could help tremendously without the use of pesticides and fertilizers. There are also ecological solutions that combine plants in the same fields that reduce pest and disease problems but these are less efficient even though they are more "natural".