Hiphop is the new folk. Discuss.

[no_arbusto]

Seriously folks. A lot of people here like to discount hip hop but it is BY FAR the most political genre of music now. Take into consideration:


I don't want no computer chip in my arm
I don't wanna die by a nuclear bomb
I say we all rush the pentagon, pull out guns
And grab the intercom, my first word's will be I believe
Man made God, outta ignorance and fear
If God made man, then why the hell would he put us here?
I thought he's supposed to be the all loving
The same God who let Hitler put the Jews in the oven
We don't fall for the regular shit, they try to feed us
All this half-ass leadership, flippin position
They turn politcian and shut the hell up and follow tradition
For your TV screen, is telling lies to your vision
Every channel got some brainwashed cop shit to watch
Running up in niggas cribs claiming that they heard shots
It's a plot, but busta can you tell me who's greedier?
Big corporations, the pigs or the media?
Sign of the times, terrorism on the rise
Commercial airplanes, falling out the sky like flies
Make me wonder what secrets went down with Bob Brown (?)
Who burnt churches to the ground with no evidence found?
It's not coincidence, it's been too many studied incidents
It coulda been the Klan who put that bomb at the Olympics
But it probably was the FBI, deep at the call
Cuz if they make us all panic then they can start martial law

"Propaganda" by Dead Prez

AND


When will we all, awake up out this dream
Come here and smell the Folgers, the soldiers are human beings
Man actin as if he was the supreme bein
Clockin the souls of men out like he was G-O-D and
W-A-Rrah, there'll be no tomorrow but sorrow
and horror will follow the hollow hearts battle for dollars
Politicians, modern day magicians
Physicians of death, more health care for poor health
Who makin us ill, they makin us kill
That's makin me spill my guts (chill Big, lay in the cut)
For what? I refuse to sit in the backseat and get handled
Like I do nuttin all day but sit around watch the Cartoon Channel
I rap about, the Presidential election and the scandal
that followed, and we all watched the nation, as it swallowed
and chalked it up, basically America you got FUCKED
The media shucked and jived now we stuck - damn!

Operation Anaconda - ask yourself
was it full of bleeps and blunders, did they ever find Osama?
And why in the fuck did Daniel Pearl have to pay the price
for his life and his wife plead twice?
See Al-Amin got life and Fred got dead, Hampton
To dampen the dream of all the Panthers
They got they answer for ransom
As we read together, as we dream together
Count your blessings whenever you feel that things won't be no better
But it got to, you gave me this microphone so I must rock you
Your brainwaves, airwaves, energized and SHOCKED you
Y'all got me, well I got y'all, long as I know y'all listenin
I'ma always bring food for thought to the table in the kitchen
Now eat nigga!

"War" by Outkast

AND


Now ask yourself who's the people with the most to gain (Bush)
'fore 911 motherfuckas couldn't stand his name (Bush)
Now even niggas waivin' flags like they lost they mind
Everybody got opinions but don't know the time
'Cause Amerikkka's been took - it's plain to see
The oldest trick in the book is make an enemy
A phony evil so the government can do its dirt
And take away ya freedom lock and load, beat and search
Ain't nothin' changed but more colored people locked in prison
These pigs still beat us but it seem we forgettin'
But I remember 'fore September how these devils do it
Fuck Giuliani ask Diallo how he doin'
We in the streets holla 'jail to the thief' follow
Fuck wavin' flags bring these dragons to they knees
Oil blood money makes these killers ride cold
Suspicious suicides people dyin' never told
It's all a part of playin' God so ya think we need 'em
While 'Bin Ashcroft' take away ya rights to freedom
Bear witness to the sickness of these dictators
Hope you understand the time brother cause it's major

"What Would You Do?" by Paris

[Systematic Chaos]

1. I think that, just as with all genres of music,

there is credible hip-hop and then there is trash.

Unfortunately, with the bulk of rap and hip-hop, trash is the rule and not the exception.

The songs you're quoting lyrics from seem to me to be the types of things I would enjoy listening to because there'd be a driving rhythm and lyrics that would jibe with my personal philosophy. On the other hand, most of the stuff on today's top-40 radio makes me want to hurl because I don't think the images or messages are positive or educational in any way.

Now, if only MTV would start playing videos for songs like this. That would be nice.

On edit: Matter of fact, after I get my shower and eat some late din-din, I'm going to look some of this stuff up and try to find either samples, or MP3's of the tracks themselves. If I like it enough I will even spend some good money on it.

[no_arbusto]

5. I agree

The songs you're quoting lyrics from seem to me to be the types of things I would enjoy listening to because there'd be a driving rhythm and lyrics that would jibe with my personal philosophy. On the other hand, most of the stuff on today's top-40 radio makes me want to hurl because I don't think the images or messages are positive or educational in any way.

I can't listen to top 40 either. However, the songs that I quoted are VERY popular in the true hiphop community (not the top 40 scene). I'm a huge fan of underground punk, rock, hip hop, roots rock, folk, whatever. Like you said, I like anything that agrees with my personal politics. I honestly think that underground hip hop will be for this decade what "grunge" was for the 90's, "industrial" or "new wave" or "whatever" was for the 80's, "punk" was for the 70's, "hippie" for the 60's, etc... I'm only 25, so forgive me for my musical ignorance pre-1991.

I'd say it would be a good idea to keep an eye on artists like Dead Prez, Outkast (very mainstream), NAS, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, among others. Obviously, with the way today's society views pop culture, these artists are not going to get much help from the record labels. It's an underground movement that's gaining momentum.

I wish I could say that the same thing is happening in the rock scene, but it is not. I can't even listen to my local "alternative" station that plays their multi-mix of "Days of the Creed", "Mud of the Puddle Jumpers", "Schlocktestikal", and "Happy, Hippy, Punk, Joy" every 2 minutes. I've totally lost interest in modern "alternative" rock. I think "The Dandy Warhols Come Down" is the last rock album I've actually bought.

[thebigidea]

2. noise is the new folk

any one can do it
with any available instrument
blenders, broken keyboards, tape recorders, 2 string guitars, etc.

very democratic. not to mention headache-inducing. fun!

[NaMeaHou]

3. Just saying "discuss" is a problem with me

Have you not seen "A Mighty Wind?"

The inner city has not yet taken over, though it may seem so to some.

edit: forgot to say this: discuss this you pompous ass. Is that hip hoppy?

[no_arbusto]

6. Sorry Ms. Mitchell.

No disrespect intended. I was just trying to point out that underground hip hop is about the only thing comparable in these times to your folk songs in days of yore. Surprisingly, there seems to be a lot of racism in the posts of some DUers when it comes to this subject. Being only 25, I was always under the impression that folk was more poetic than musical in nature. After all, I learned those three chords when I was in 8th grade.

[OneBlueSky]

4. doesn't music have to be . . . well . . . musical?

rap and hip hop are, to me, more a form of urban street poetry . . . they have their place and their audience (I'm not one of them), but to mention them in the same sentence as music is oxymoronic, imo . . .

I liked what Ray Charles said when they asked if he listened to rap . . . his answer was "No", and when the interviewer asked him why, he said "Because I can't learn anything from it" (musically, that is) . . . I think I agree with that sentiment . . .

[el_gato]

7. cool

thanks for posting these lyrics

[Red_Storm]

8. on the political tip ...........

I see the world for what it is, beyond the white and the black
The way the government downplays historical facts
'Cuz the United States sponsored the rise of the 3rd Reich
Just like the CIA trained terrorists to fight
Build bombs and sneak box cutters on to a flight
My words'll expose George Bush and Bin Laden
As two separate parts of the same seven headed dragon
And you can't fathom the truth, so you don't hear me
You think illuminati's just a fuckin conspiracy theory?
That's why Conservative racists are all runnin' shit
And your phone is tapped by the Federal Government


And just so Conservatives don't take it to heart
I don't think Bush did it, cuz he isn't that smart
He's just a stupid puppet taking orders on his cell phone
From the same people that sabotaged Senator Wellstone
The military industry got it poppin' and lockin'
Looking for any way to justify the Wolfowitz Doctrine
And as a matter of fact, Rumsfeld, now that I think back
Without 9-11, you couldn't have a war on Iraq
Or a Defense budget of world conquest proportions
Kill freedom of speech and revoke the right to abortions
Tax cut extortion, a blessing to the wealthy and wicked
But you still have to answer to the Armageddon you scripted
And Dick Cheney, you fuckin' leech, tell them your plans
About building your pipelines through Afghanistan
And how Israeli troops trained the Taliban in Pakistan
You might have some house niggaz fooled, but I understand
Colonialism is sponsored by corporations
That's why Halliburton gets paid to rebuild nations
Tell me the truth, I don't scare into paralysis
I know the CIA saw Bin Laden on dialysis
In '98 when he was Top Ten for the FBI
Government ties is really why the Government lies
Read it yourself instead of asking the Government why
'Cuz then the Cause of Death will cause the propaganda to die


Cause Of Death - Immortal Technique

[Red_Storm]

9. there is music in hip hop.............

The Roots
Black Eyed Peas
Jurassic 5
Common
Mos Def
Lauryn Hill
Gang Starr


And there are others.......you just have to know where to look......

[VermontDem2004]

10. Hip hop died after the mid-90's

[Red_Storm]

16. You're Wrong, hip hop is alive and well .................

if you knew hip hop you would know that's true........there are alot of artists in hip hop today carrying the torch..........

NAS
KRS-ONE
The Roots
Lauryn Hill
Mos Def
Talib Kweli
J-Live
Jurassic 5
Dialated Peoples
Common

and MANY, MANY, more............

[VermontDem2004]

18. Some of the people on that list is all right

but I would prefer pre-1997 rappers anyday over this list. I just saw a song on the tv that was horrible as hell, I think it was titled "Right herr" or something like that, one of the most annoying songs I ever heard. But the fact is hip hop has died and it is nowhere near what it used to be.

[GOPisEvil]

11. Interesting theory.

I don't know that I would call hip-hop the new folk, as folk is still around. But, rather, I think it's an attempt by some hip-hop artists to use music to educate, like some rock, pop and other artists do.

[Loonman]

12. I remember when rap was the new punk

Now it's just a bunch of guys rapping about their hoochies and their gold.

[Red_Storm]

47. that's what you see on T.V. ............

the bling blingin' and the big booty's shaking in your face but that's not the REAL hip hop but that's what sells these days........unfortunately...........

[THUNDER HANDS]

13. if you listen to enough Bob Dylan

You can hear a very early form of hip-hop, espeically on Subteranian Homesick Blues.

[Wickerman]

14. Likewise Lou Reed

though The Original Rapper was an abomination.

[kmla]

15. Nah, not really.

There are politically driven artists in rap/hip-hop today. Maybe in a concentration larger than other genres of music. But it is still a small percentage of the total offering.

There are political acts in most every type of music. Even country. But if you look at folk music (at least the late 50's/early 60's era all the way through the rest of it's popular run), it was almost ALL political in nature. Granted, some of it wasn't that good, but it was still political.

Rap/hip-hop is simply another genre of music that is experiencing a surge in popularity. Like disco, like new wave, and like grunge before it, it will fade. It will never go away, but it will lose it's mass appeal. Human nature. We all want to be associated with the newest cool things - styles, music, autos, slang, etc.

That's my $.02 worth.

Peace. Out.

(That was my sarcastic attempt to be hip by using slang. I don't think I succeeded, though...)

[VermontDem2004]

19. Wrong about that statement

Rap/hip-hop is simply another genre of music that is experiencing a surge in popularity. Like disco, like new wave, and like grunge before it, it will fade. It will never go away, but it will lose it's mass appeal. Human nature. We all want to be associated with the newest cool things - styles, music, autos, slang, etc.

It already had a surge from the late 80's to the mid 90's but faded. But for the next 10 years you will still see rappers putting out videos of their gas guzzling Escalade's, their jewelry, and their 100 girlfriends. But the fact is hip hop has faded about 5 years ago.

[kmla]

22. Hmmm. Let's see.

In the Billboard Hot 100 charts for this week, the following songs (I only searched the top 20 songs) belong in the rap/hip hop genre:

#2, #3, #4, #5, #7, #8, #11, #12, #13, #15, #16.

Gosh, Beave, dontcha think that is a lot of hits in the top 20 songs for a music genre that faded 5 years ago?

<chirping crickets in the background>.

:shrug:

[VermontDem2004]

29. Yeap

But it has faded, not what it used to be. The rap today is all about jewelry, gas guzzling escalades, and women. The quality of it has faded, I didn't expect to get a smartass response but hey!

[hiphopnation]

30. You're mischaracterizing the music.

No music is today what it was ten or twenty years ago. No art form for that matter. It is part of art's nature to morph and grow. Do you understand the basic principal behind this phenomenon?

To boot, if you think that all hiphop (rap is something you do hiphop is something you live, please see earlier post) today is about the "bling-blingin" then you're not listening to the right stuff and certainly aren't looking hard enough to make the crude judgments you are making.

[srubick]

17. Hiphop is actually the new disco

While there is a lot of social material in some hiphop, so much of it is nothing but remakes of old songs with a newly marketable repeat beat.
Even disco had "staying alive" as an example of social/political/corporate awareness.

[radwriter0555]

20. No. It's not.

n/t

[VermontDem2004]

21. Yes. Something thoughtfull and intellectual

to add to the conversation. :)

[Rich Hunt]

23. hip-hop is like folk

...because folk is more than just a genre or even a fad - it is a way of approaching music and a way of life. Folk is the true people's music - it springs organically from any number of cultures. Hip-hop is the same way, and so was punk. Unfortunately, some people just see the mass-produced and bastardized form and make their judgments based on that.

[srubick]

24. All music is folk music

You can quote Louis Armstrong on that!

[Red_Storm]

25. Excellent Point ..............

the mass produced and bastardized Hip Hop that is shown on MTV IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REAL HIP HOP, that is, music of substance and deep artistry made by many of the people I have mentioned in earlier posts...........

[chenGOD]

26. I dunno if I would call it the new folk, but it's definitely powerful...

when it wants to be.

Whoever here has said that rap is not musical simply hasn't listened to enough of it.
The Roots
De La Soul
Beastie Boys
Jurassic 5
cLOUDDEAD
Cannibal Ox (hell any of the Def Jux artists)
Hieroglyphics

as for political artists, there are so many who bring politics into it, one of my faves is Mr.Lif. Here's the second verse from his track "Home of the Brave"


"Headline: Bush steals the presidency
He needs the backing of the media what could the remedy be?
The country's headed for recession reminiscent of the Great Depression
Are lives worth a world of power? Easy question
Planes hit the towers and the Pentagon
Killing those the government wasn't dependant on
It's easy to control the scared so they keep us in fear
With their favorite Middle Eastern demon named Bin Laden this year
Bush disguises blood lust as patriotism
Convincing the living to love 'Operation Let's Get 'Em'
But when he realized we don't support their attacks
They needed something to distract, hmm, anthrax
This further demonizes Afghanis
So Americans cheer while we kill their innocent families
And what better place to start a war
To build a pipeline to get the oil that they had wanted before
America supported the Taliban
To get Russia out of Afghanistan
That's how they got the arms in
They're in a war against the Northern Alliance
And we can't build a pipeline in hostile environments
Here's what your history books won't show:
You're a dead man for fucking with American dough
They killed several birds with one stone
While you're at home with anti-terrorism up in your dome
But my eyes are wide open and my TV is off
Great, 'cause I save on my electricity cost
And you can wave that piece of shit flag if you dare
But they killed us because we've been killing them for years"

---------------------------------------------------------------

I guess you know, some people will never be open to new forms of music, but that's alright, cause people are just people you know. We've all got our opinions and that's fine.

PS: I'd like to thanks whoever made that post on here about Immortal Technique, I checked out a couple of songs, definitely gonna pick up his discs now.

[Rich Hunt]

27. there are some great stations out there on the web

I listen to "The Bassment" on Live365. Sometimes I listen to Rapstation.

[hiphopnation]

28. Indeed.

And then some. It even has more potentital to reach larger groups of people with a political message.

As long as folks (some in this thread) continue to confuse "rap" and "hip hop", however, I'm afraid that the political power of the music will stay confined to the small groups, tight-nit groups that choose to use it as a platform instead of shoving gold in your face.

"Rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live." I thought KRS-One cleared that up years ago?

And it's hilarious to read these (probably white) people give hiphop it's last rites. I see racism in that. Not the surface kind, the kind that stays way way way underneath and never sees the light of day. The kind that has been waiting for years to see this cultural insurgance ebb and recede back to the dark corners from whence it came.

Makes me gald that at least the "rappers" are shoving gold in thier faces. Now if only the "hiphop" artists who actually have something poignant to deliver could gain some recognition. *sigh*

[Rich Hunt]

31. amen

It's important and sustaining to so many people - you would think the detractors would show enough respect to at least educate themselves about its cultural importance, even if they don't like the music.

There was a thread on here a few months ago that made me so angry. Its subject was something like, "I hate rap music, don't you?" The person who posted it and the people who agreed seemed to think that everyone would agree with them.

[Red_Storm]

32. I posted a hip hop thread recently and ................

well, some people couldn't help themselves I guess and posted really stupid comments, the uneducated and in some cases racist kind...........btw, i've read other music threads ( rock, jazz, country) on this board and I have not seen the same thing.....what is it about hip hop that makes some people on this board react in an ignorant and racist manner?

[DrWeird]

34. Hip hop often involves angry black men.

And that scares a lot of closet racists.

[chenGOD]

36. I would assume a closed mind.....

but not towards people but towards music. They can't seem to consider anything not made by guitars/drums/piano/horns/strings music. They think, "oh it's made with a sampler/computer? Can't be music. He's doing that speaking in a rythym thing? Blech, give me a singer...".

It's a shame really, cause they really don't know what they're missing.

[hiphopnation]

38. Right.

And in the meantime various aspects of hiphop have infiltrated virtually every other kind of popular music. If you don't think so, just listen to N'Sync or Britney; the equipment, the beats, the singing style, the DANCE MOVES, the CLOTHES...almost all of it is in some way borrowed from the hiphop style.

The real hiphop artists don't need to concern themsleves with these trappings. As the original poster suggests, they are more concerned with infusing the music with a real message while continuing to make people want to move. I ask you, what could be better??

on edit: The "Rap & Roll" phenomenon?? I rest my case.

[Brewman_Jax]

44. And around the world

as seen on some of the videos on Univision. During the group draws for World Cup 2002, one of the music groups was a hip-hop Korean group singing in Korean.

BTW, also in the Lounge, there's a Heavy Metal music thread with 16 posts, and not ONE "I hate metal" post.

Makes one wonder...

[Red_Storm]

45. Are you sure ...................

it's closed minds to just the music......I really wonder sometimes and especially when I read some of the reactions to hip hop threads on this board...

[hiphopnation]

46. there's definitely some closet racism going on. n/t

[Norbert]

48. I think it's just the jonre of music

Many people, myself included, just don't get it. Many people grew up with the harmonization of the Beatles, Temptations and many other groups of the time. Harmony is a lost art, even in todays rock and exist in a very few hip hop counters to the dialogue of the song. Give me Suite: Judy Blue Eyes anyday.

Record companies, seeing an opportunity, push rap and hiphop over more established, and in their mind, overpriced rock, pop and soul acts. Record companies are looking for that higher profit margin from less expensive Rap acts. The result, 20 percent less CD sales over a few years ago, due in part because people lose interest in music or turn to jazz, classical or classic rock and also, making a small difference, the downloading of music.

The music industry better wake up and discover that $.50 cannot hold a candle to Parlament/Funkadelic, not even close.

[hiphopnation]

49. You make some good points.

However, I disagree with your assertion that there's no harmonization in the music. Maybe not in the traditional sense (i.e. the Beatles and Motown) but, don't you think that's a good thing? I'm a huge Beatles fan, but do you want to be listening to it the rest of your life or, even worse, warmed over versions of it?

Often time in hiphop what you have is "sing-speak" that is, more often than not, also sung. There are words being "spoken" but the rapper is delivering them in pitch with the music. This is probably an unconcious effort which makes the artform even more titilating and interesting to me, a musician.

I'm afraid, however, that the music industry is a step ahead of it's customers. There's already a massive effort underway but the majors to offer downloadable songs similar to the one that Apple is offering now and soon there will be no CD distribution; it will all be done over the web and the big five labels will be controlling all profits.

[newyawker99]

56. Congrats Norbert!! 800 posts

:toast:

[kmla]

37. People (even progressives sometimes) are afraid of what they don't know.

People are afraid of what they don't know. As a society, and a species, we tend to associate with groups.

People are naturally wary of other groups (in this instance being the rap/hip hop crowd) that are new. As we have evolved as a society, we have naturally tried to establish supremacy. The kind of "my god is better than your god", or "my town is better than your town", or "My music is cooler than what you listen to because your music sucks" statements are an attempt to elevate someone's group status over those whose groups they fear or don't understand. (Sorry if I sound a little too much like a Discovery Channel documentary.) This is pretty much the root of why we react in this fashion towards others, IMHO.

Personally, I am not that fond of rap or hip hop. Do I hate it? No. Do I think it is an art form that lacks in talent comparable to others? Definitely not. I just am not that fond of the music style. I don't like classical music, either, but I also recognize that that art form takes great talents to write and perform.
(Personally, I'm just waiting for the Flock of Seagulls reunion tour to come to a city near me...ha ha!)

It's a great big world out there. Should be room for all of us.

[DrWeird]

33. No kidding.

Somebody turns on the TV, sees a bad hip hop video, and therefore rap is dead. See a Britney Spears video, or N'Sync, or Creed or whatever it is that goes for traditional rock and roll nowadays and that's OK. That's just for the teenagers, that's not representative of modern rock. Popular music on TV has always been aimed at kids with poor taste, and if that's the only hip hop you're exposed to, than you're just plain ignorant.

[arwalden]

39. Yo! The Exaggerated Arm Gestures And Crotch Grabbing Crack Me Up

[Brewman_Jax]

35. Hip-hop has been protest music for quite a while

Goes back to Grandmaster Flash, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, X-Clan, KRS-One, NWA, Ice-T to name a few.

[Red_Storm]

40. as well as................

Afrika Bambaataa, Brand Nubian, Ice Cube (solo), etc.........

[Red_Storm]

as well as................

Afrika Bambaataa, Brand Nubian, Ice Cube (solo), etc.........

[Red_Storm]

41. as well as................

Afrika Bambaataa, Brand Nubian, Ice Cube (solo), etc.........

[Red_Storm]

as well as................

Afrika Bambaataa, Brand Nubian, Ice Cube (solo), etc.........

[Red_Storm]

42. as well as................

Afrika Bambaataa, Brand Nubian, Ice Cube (solo), etc.........

[Red_Storm]

43. ooops..........

didn't mean to do that :crazy:

[mitchum]

50. It may be the new "protest music", but it is not the new folk

[kwolf68]

51. Hip Hop

Had a chance, but when watching the vids all I see is dudes prancing around with lots of money, gold chains and big SUVs.

I applaud the rappers who are starting to become more politically active and I look forward to the new music, but the days of the brillinace of Public Enemy aint here yet.

[Red_Storm]

52. "the days of the brilliance of Public Enemy aint here yet"..............

As I said in earlier posts......you have to know where to look......

The Roots
Reflection Eternal
Black Star
Nas
Jurassic 5


Those are just a few of the artists (there are many more) who've made great albums, recently, as brilliant as PE, on the same level as PE......

[jmm]

53. Your problem seems to be with MTV not hip hop.

Most intelligent and/or political music of any genre doesn't get much play on TV or the radio. It's all about marketing. It's easier for a record label to promote an artist that wants Bentleys than one that wants socialism.

[Red_Storm]

54. That's a recurring theme on this thread...........

"hip hop songs/videos are about money, expensive jewelry, fancy cars, girls with big bootys".....the point has been made by more than a few people on this thread, that the best elements of hip hop, hip hop's great artists do not represent and are not defined by those things....I guess no one is listening......

[latebloomer]

55. Woefully ignorant here

But I HAVE heard "What Would You Do?" and it ROCKS!

[soupkitchen]

57. Folk Music led to people protesting in the streets, where is the

political activism generated by hip-hop?
When are we going to see the Hip-Hop March on Washington that will put some real fear into the "White House" people.
The question for hip-hop as a musical or literary art from is whether it can actually educate people, raise the politcal consciousness of its listeners to the point of action, or is it inherently limited to being a celebration of cynicism, another self-indulgent narcotic for the community.

[hiphopnation]

58. A lot of things lead to people marching in the streets

in the 60's, not just folk music. There was never a "folk march" and I doubt Nixon, Johnson, anyone in thier administrations or thier supporters were ever frightened by the likes of Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan.

The title of the thread might be a erroneous on it's face in that hiphop may not be there yet but, imo, it has potential to ignite outrage and educate people about what is going on. If for no other reason than the look, sound, and attitude is so widely disseminated througout the world. Part of the reason it has trouble reaching the annals of politics is because people still think it an irrelevent "fad" that's going to fade any day now. (Imagine if the political nature of Talib Kweli's music teamed up with "Sean Jean"'s marketing prowess!)

Furthermore, the question you pose should be one for every artform not just hiphop. I would submit that there are already examples of hiphop educating it's listeners and raising political conciousness to the point of action with artists like Paris, Common, Talib Kweli, Dead Prez, albums like "Dissent is Patriotic" that feature some of these artists and the various movements that are currently attempting to mobilize young street kids (kids who have no other identity than hip hop) into one political movement or another. Do some research.

But to call hip hop a "celebration of cynicism" and a "self-indulgent narcotic for the community" borders on - no, wait - IS offensive. You've shown your ignorance on the topic and you can just pack it sideways.

edit: grammer
edit: Rage Against the Machine is an example of the musical style merging with rock and raising the ire of the paticular bands fans.

[Red_Storm]

60. hiphopnation............

another great post .......the longer this thread goes on it seems more uninformed people are joining in with some really ignorant comments about hip hop ........glad that you're around to put 'em all in check.........

[soupkitchen]

61. You must be easily offened then.

While one would have to agree that many variables factor into the climate of any historical period the reality is that "folk music" was the sound track of a revolution.
As simple as it is, "If I had a Hammer" is a call to action "I'd sing of freedom, I'd sing of justice, I'd sing about the love between a brother and a sister. all over this land."
And people took the streets to do that.
But, of course there was also a more cynical, darker, more demanding brand of folk, out there too. Phil Ochs comes to mind. And the whole point of this stuff was action and resistance. Now of course, the revolution failed, but not completely. There is no doubt that many people's lifes were changed, and a war was stopped, because people, filled with idealism, fueled at leasy partially by the music were listening to, were willing to get their heads busted open.
Were the authorities worried about these guys? Well, they were all on Nixon's enemies list. They all had extensive FBI files kept on them. But maybe that was just a harmless indulgence of the times also.
Which gets me to the point where I offended you because, I called hip-hop a "Celebration of cynicism and another self-indulgent narcotic for the community." Well, I wasn't trying to say that's what it is, I was trying to say that unless it can muster the energy of the community to take to the streets to insist the American system gets restructured-and for all I know the water is simmering in that pot-it has the potential to be historically perceived as such.
Now maybe, I'm wrong to insist that "political" Art should result in political action. That, in fact, I should distrust the worth of "political Art" that doesn't have the power to result in political action. So maybe you can tell me, and I'm asking this seriously, how hip-hop is working in the conciousness of its audience on a level other than passive entertainment? Nor would there be anything wrong with it simply being entertainment; except of course that all simple entertainment is ultimately a narcotic.

[hiphopnation]

62. Well I'm not going to do your research for you.

But here's some links to get you started.

http://www.daveyd.com/
http://www.blackelectorate.com/
http://www.urbanthinktank.org/
http://www.allhiphop.com/editorial/?ID=144
http://www.conscioushiphop.com/html/poetry.html

check out this article and link to the mp3 by Paris which was a direct response to ShrubCo's war on terra. http://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/msg03409.html

Also check out Chuck D's site which has great links and article features on artists and politics.

I'm not easily offended. What you said was truly representitive of someone who knows nothing of the culture or the music save what they've seen on MTV but has no problem rendering it politcally or socially irrelavant; that's pretty offensive, dude.

Next time, if you're truly curious about it you should do some research before you dismiss it as a fix or something to occupy the idle minds of braindead ghetto punks; even though that happens to be what corporate america wants you to think it is.

That goes for anything and everything you may be curious about.

IMO, it is this very attitude that serves as a wedge between a possible mergence of political activism and hip hop music. Lest we forget, hip hop came from the ghetto; from the oppressed. At it's core it is protest music. It is the unconscious reaction to an oppressive socio-economic esixtence by a class of people descriminated against and marginalized in the ghettos of New York City. It spread like wildfire.

And, yes, as many people in this very thread were so quick to point out, it has been co-opted by corporate america; they syphon all the fashion, music, and dance out of the ghetto, filter it for product placement and advertising, and pump it right back in; it's actually a pretty brilliant scheme.

However there are artists out there who are trying to ignore that path (imagine how hard that must be given that most hip hop artists come from very poor backgrounds) and try to use the music as a platform to initiate action and inform thier listeners. You just have to look a little harder for them.

on edit: this is an album of hip hop artists called "dissent is patriotic" http://www.telusplanet.net/public/fursiew/dissent.html
Enjoy! :hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

59. We'll find out in 100 years...