I'm sick to f*cking death of being "PC"

[dolo amber]

If I saw a retarded black midget, I'd say I saw a fucking retarded black midget. I do NOT feel the need to qualify every descriptive statement I make in life with a 47 word hyphenated phrase for sensitivitie's sake. If my kid's soccer team was cunting awful at soccer and lost every single game, instead of awarding both teams with a "well done" no score, I'd say my kid's team was cunting awful at soccer!! Is ANYONE with me, or shall I just go drag my knuckles elsewhere?

Note: I'd never intentionally do or say anything directly to anyone who would be hurt by my bluntness, but I mean c'mon, for FUCK'S merciful sake, how far are we gonna take this shit? :eyes:

[Catholic Sensation]

1. I support you

If you read any of my earlier posts I used terms most people don't like, but then again, i've had a fair share of posts removed for language...

[Don_G]

2. Just Be Yourself

You have the judgement when to say what and where. If someone dosen't like it then have them translate.

[Fixated]

3. .....

A-friggin'-men!!!

I am incredibly offensive. I think it's direct, it's funny, and I don't care people think I'm insensitive because I don't say "African-American."

[Catholic Sensation]

5. were you on coulter's forums engaged

in a debate about "treason" being the worst book ever? someone was on there recently talking about why the book is shit and they linked to their blog with proof of why she's full of shit and all that.

[Fixated]

6. ....

Yes.

[Catholic Sensation]

8. heh

I wish I could still post there (I'd have helped you, I made so many notes in my signed copy) with my original user name, but alas I was banned and can only view the shit now :(

[LibertyorDeath]

89. Add this to your collection

[ForrestGump]

4. I don't do PC

I'm a Mac user. :-)

Sorry, I mean a Vastly-Superior-Platform-Appreciator.

[Dogmudgeon]

7. There's PC and there's PC

There's a retarded black midget.

There's a cognitively-challenged African-American with hypopituitarism.

There's also a little n****r ree-tard.

The first is fine (though "midget" may be a little annoying).

The second is "PC".

The third is what the right-wing PC whiners want to bring back.

You took your pick, and you picked fine.

--bkl

[dolo amber]

10. GAH!

Thank you...I seriously think the whole warm fuzzy PC crap is THE single most annoying thing about being a 'liberal'...maybe if we'd all ditch the Mr. Rogers shit and get hardcore we could get somewhere.

</semi-drunken ranting> ;)

ps--no diss to Mr. Rogers, who was marvellous. :)

[noiretextatique]

9. "pc" is often confused with good manners

and common decency. and just as often, not confirming to "pc" is used as an excuse to be an asshole. sometimes i do feel like being an asshole, and i don't let "pc" get in my way....i just know i'm indulging myself in acting like an asshole.

[arwalden]

11. Tipping Hat To Noiretblu!

Bravo! Well said.

-- Allen

[David Zephyr]

13. Yeah. Noiretblu Has It Right.

Common deceny. Well put.

[roughsatori]

15. Thank you. It amazes me how the anti-PC anger of some Dems

sounds exactly like the wording and anger of the O'reallys of the world. The anger that some people feel when they are called on their lack of manners is strange. Particularly when it comes from a member of the traditionally "dominant" culture. How dare women, Blacks, Asians, Gays,little-people, or the developmentally-disabled ask to be treated with respect via language.

I, like you, can throw aside my manners and be an asshole using insulting, derogatory language that owes its genesis to rudeness and bigotry rather than to the ideals of a progressive intellectual artist; but, I will never pretend that I am being brave by using assholian (sic)language (which is the opposite of what some angry white-male-heterosexual defenders of bad manners do).

[noiretextatique]

17. it's not anti-pc...it's anti women, gays, people of color, etc: ad nauseum

though there was quite a ruckus here over micheal moore's book title "stupid white men." privilege, my dear. awhm, and their friends, have been having a huge hissy fit over the notion that they are being called to task for being assholian...if i may borrow your expression. nothing brave about being assholian, if you ask me.

[dolo amber]

19. I don't at ALL mean to be "assholian"

and I would never (as previously stated) intentionally say anything specifically to be hurtful or disrespectful. THE POINT is, if someone referred to me as a short dumpy white chick, not only would I not be offended, I would give them props for speaking the TRUTH, not some watered down version of what they really think...much like politicians do. The whole PC thing leeches over into every aspect of life. Everyone is too afraid of offending anyone's sensibilities to speak their mind, and IMHO as a concept it's much more damaging than helpful.

[noiretextatique]

22. oh...it's not "pc" you're referring to

it's just saying what you mean...perhaps from the heart. and i tell you...i would never refer to you as a "short and dumpy white chick"...just not my style. having worked with developmentally disabled people, i can tell you that they don't like being referred to as "retards," and would likely take offense, and be hurt if adddressed that way directly. i understand what you mean though, and i do see your point to some extent...perhaps it is just a style issue, to some extent. and don't think "pc" has done any damage politically...it's just another "wedge" issue, IMHO...a weapon of mass distraction.
what has done damage is sheer and utter cowardice...and that has nothing at all to do with "pc."

[dolo amber]

23. Well...

Regardless of any differences we may have on the "PC" issue, I'm with you on the *sheer and utter cowardice* thing 110%. :)

[noiretextatique]

24. great!

:thumbsup: you know, micheal moore has a theory about the cowardice thing, and though i would not call it "pc," it does seem to have something to do with social conventions. interesting that the CBC was the only congessional body to oppose the coup. some have posited that african-americans are far more familiar with struggling against seemingly insurmountable power (and odds), hence the CBC's willingness to put its collective ass on the line. i think there is some merit to that theory. i wonder how different things would be if we had some working class folks in congress, instead of members the elite class, for the most part, who act in accordance with the social conventions of their class...as in, "don't make waves."

[dolo amber]

27. Yes

I am a HUGE fan of the CBC, and by extention the Rev. Sharpton. (not for presidential electability *drunken spelling there, drunken spelling fans* purposes, just because he has like, ZERO filters between brain and mouth! :D) It would do this country, nay this WORLD a shit ton of good to have some *real* working class people in Congress, however, due to people's inabitly and/or unwillingnes to hear the truth, that will NEVER happen.

[blondeatlast]

47. That is so right! We need teachers and Teamsters in Congress,

not lawyers!

[cally]

34. Thanks noiretblu

for stating my opinions better than I can. Why use language that offends? It's just common courtesy to try to be polite and use appropriate language. You also have the problem that many will dismiss your opinion because you insulted so many. I have never understood the anti-PC argument.

[jumptheshadow]

43. Yes, and the CBC opposed the war

They took the principled stand when others were equivocating. My Congressional rep and a couple of others came to a public forum in my neighborhood to blast the war. It was so heartening to hear their isolated voices during such a painful time.

The "PC" thing seemed to take root at the same time the shock jocks were making their dubious emergence. I have always contended that what some people consider "PC" is simply common courtesy. But these kinds of people tend to speak in very loud voices.

[NashVegas]

45. To An Extent

I agree the language police are pains in the asses, and the liberal variety don't realize the damage they are doing.

However:

If you want your kids to associate poor athletic performance with a particular part of female anatomy, that's your business. Just don't expect me to be happy about your sons dating my daughters (hypothetical, of course).

[havocmom]

57. Being 'not pc' is not always being

an asshole (but I agree, some use anti-pc stance to justify poor manners.) Those who insist non pc adherants are assholes are just control freaks. (Yes, there are some professed liberals who are freakishly compelled to control everyone else's behavior. Mystifying, isn't it?)

PC is in the mind of the beholder. Some of just have narrower minds to behold with. When 'pc' communication reaches the point that healthy, truly cumminicative discourse is hampered, it might just be time to rethink things and tell the pc-police to shut the f**k up.

But, that is just my asshole opinion.

[noiretextatique]

90. i agree: sometimes it's just being rude and offensive

in hopes of shocking people...and getting attention. and of course there are those people who are so overwhelmed by trying to be correct that one quickly loses interest in conversing with them. one the the problems with the original post is that she never defined what she meant by "pc," and per her apology at the end of this thread, it seems she was in fact just being an asshole, as i suspected :hi: i don't think being respectful ever hampers conversation, but then again, i'm not is the habit of conversing with assholes...at least not more than once.

[DBoon]

12. "politically correct" is a joke

In the 1980's it was a term of self mocking, meaning that you were taking yourself too seriously.

If your intent is to treat people with respect, then this is good. You should not have to adopt some sort of sanitized language.

[noiretextatique]

14. yeah, you are correct: you stupid fucking jerk!

O8) but my intent is pure, i assure you O8) just a little example of how language can color intent. and i assure you, my intent is honorable and respectful :hi:

[chicaloca]

40. I also heard that's it's more the work of the right.....

One of my professors, a woman of color who was really politically active in the 60s and 70s, said that activists used to use it jokingly to refer to turning off their political analysis of everything. For instance, if they were going to watch a movie that might not entirely fit their views in every way, they'd jokingly say, "Okay, let's stop being politically correct now and just enjoy the movie," or things like that. Then, of course, the right got ahold of it, did all they could to twist the definition to make it look ridiculous, and said, "Hey, look what these stupid liberals did! We all have to be politically correct now!"

Of course, I'm still totally against racial slurs, but two PC terms that are really overdone are African-American and Native American. I mean, okay, if someone wants to be called that, I'll do it, but so far I've met no black people and no American Indians who prefer those terms. (And I say American Indians rather than Indian because of the whole clarity thing--where I live there are loads of people from India, and then there are some Sioux tribes around.) And I don't have a huge problem with the term retarded, though I don't use it, and I don't like it when people use it to call something stupid. However, I hate the term retard, just because I know people with Down syndrome and cerebral palsy who find that term really hurtful. And it _is_ used as an insult--It would be like saying "he's black" to mean that someone is really stupid. And also, "retard" reduces someone to just their condition rather than a person, which "retarded person" doesn't do as much. I guess I just go by what most people I know who are affected by certain terms prefer. Of course, that means it could vary for every person depending on their experiences and friends.

So, as with everything that sucks, excessive political correctness is a right-wing plot! :)

Also, I think it's worth noting that the Associated Press Style Manual tells writers and journalists to use the terms "black" and "American Indian," so I really don't think this stuff is as prevalent as it used to be. But then again, I haven't been on these boards in ages, so the dynamic here may be different.

[noiretextatique]

48. wtf is it with the problem with people naming themselves?

and WHY is this such an issue for so many? why would anyone CARE so much? it seems to me this is way overblown. as a black or african-american person...i don't get it. the second post in this thread about this, and this one by someone named chicaloca...latina, are you? or is it hispanic? or mexican?

[NashVegas]

46. Interesting You Should Say That

The first time I ever heard the phrase 'politically correct' was at a Sinéad O'Connor concert. An acquaintance was describing what she found appealing about O'Connor. Listed her musical qualities and then added 'and she's oh-so politically correct,' in a mocking way. The woman who said this was a lesbian.

[leftist_rebel1569]

16. I totally agree....

who the hell came up with the idea for that anyways? :shrug:

[HEyHEY]

18. HEy you've insulted retarded black midgets everywhere

On edit...took that last commentout.

[lynndew2]

20. I too think PC is way outta hand.

I had a guy I know personally and on here and he read one of my posts the other day. He said you called them black!!! Yes I did and I always will. I grew up in an area that is very diversified and they call them selves black. What the F@ck.

[lynndew2]

21. Oh Yeah, I forgot.

It is small people wrestling.

[Xithras]

29. "Black"

I may get flamed for this but...

Why is it that the only people I've ever met who insist on being called "African-American" are the extremist activists who jump at the chance to harangue me for 30 minutes about why, as a white male, I am personally and exclusively the source of every piece of evil that has ever occurred in the world. Yep, it's all my fault.

I know dozens of blacks, I work with them, I've dated a few, my sister adopted one, two of my best friends are, my wife's family is from Oakland and 90% of her friends are, and yet NOT ONE OF THEM has ever wanted to be called "African-American". For years I would always address the blacks I met as African-American, and for years black after black would stop me and say "Hey, it's just black, man". Finally, I grew tired of being corrected and gave it up...blacks are blacks until they tell me otherwise. And for the record, there have been a whopping three of them, two of which were the heads of black activist groups on the college campus I'm employed at.

My wife, by the way, is Native American. I wouldn't call her that though, if you ask her, she's Osage first, and American Indian second. She's stated repeatedly that she feels the term "Native American" was coined simply to divide us and prevent us from solving historical wrongs.

[noiretextatique]

30. so...what is your problem?

if you honor your wife's request, why not honor others' as well? even if it is only three people that you have met, to date :shrug:
what IS the problem is doing that...in your view? you seem to take it as some sort of personal insult when coming from african-americans, yet you seem to "get it" about your wife.

[Xithras]

38. You misunderstand

My "problem" is with the conflicting messages that come out of the black community about the term. I have absolutely no problem calling people whatever they want to be called, but my personal experience is that 95+% of blacks want to be called just that...black. Granted, my experience is pretty much limited to Northern California and societal preferences may vary across the country, but where I live black is definitely the preferred label.

My problem is that, when I do meet people who want to be called African American, their first response after hearing me refer to blacks as blacks is to lecture me like a schoolboy about how 'insensitive' it is for a person to refer to them as blacks, and how they should ALWAYS be referred to as African-Americans. All three times I've tried to point out that virtually every black I've met has asked to be called just that, and all three times I've been lectured about how, as a white man, I just cannot understand the black community. They're right...as a white guy there will probably always be a few things beyond my ken, but when 95% of the people I talk to tell me the same thing, I tend to believe them.

Which is why I said what I said: Blacks are black until they tell me otherwise. I never slip...once I'm aware that someone prefers the term African American, I will ALWAYS use that term around them. I just refuse to look like an idiot and consistently be corrected in order to be PC and pacify a relatively small percentage of the African American community.

In the end, the only term that really matters is "HUMAN". It's the only label we're born with...the rest are just fictional names designed to divide and separate us as a people. Black, white, red, brown...it doesn't matter. We've all got the same ancestors and the same destiny.

[noiretextatique]

41. i get it now

i live in oakland, so i can't pretend i don't know exactly what you mean :D there are some ultra-nationalist types in our neck of the woods...i know a few myself. i know i have an attachment to the black power movement, so if i had to choose, i'd choose black...but it's just not an issue for me. you are right...it's not that deep for most black people, as it is for a few. in the end...you are correct...i hope however, we can make race and class less significant socially, politically and economically. peace.

[Gringo]

25. You must have a hard time at DU

I try to be fairly PC, or at least considerate of peoples' feelings, but the draconian rules here at DU can be a bitch. I really think they carry it too far, and I run up against them every so often. I think they should keep out trolls & obvioous right-wingers, but other than that it should be free speech. The overreaching rules here are a detriment, IMO. I have to go to the Yahoo boards every now and then, do battle with the right-wingers to get it out of my system. You're right. PC has gone too far. I was watching VH1's "I Love the 80s" and they actually BLEEPED the word "retarded" ! Oh My God! I'm sorry, but there is such a thing as retarded, and if you change the name of it to something else, that something else will become an insult. Believe it or not a person could concievable make a joke about a "retard" and not actually hat retards! It's true! Hell, I'll bet people call Dumbya a "retard" all the time. Of course that is in itself an insult to retards...

[blondeatlast]

49. bushit is simply STUPID; he has no excuse. The developmentally

disabled deserve more respect for their brainpower than bushit does. By the way, it is perfectly acceptable to use DD trather than retarded.

[Booberdawg]

76. My experience with the developmentally disabled is that

they work hard to accomplish what they do give 100% to everything they attempt. The term "retard" has a negative connotation, and these special folks are entitled to more respect and dignity than that. And if "retard" is a term used to describe duhbya, it certainly can't be intended as anything but a putdown. He doesn't deserve to be considered in the same class of hard working and deserving individuals.

[NightTrain]

26. Good for you!

As I've said before: I'm as politically incorrect a leftist as you're likely to meet!

And you know what else? Because of my bluntness and my filthy mouth, conservative working-class types are more willing to give me the benefit of the doubt than they would some pompous, white-bread, mousy intellectual type of leftist. And it's those working-class conservatives we have to reach if we're going to toss that fucking Bush out of *our* White House next year!

Something to think about the next time you feel the urge to sneer at everything "white trash."

[dolo amber]

28. YEAH!

What he said!!!1

(You know I mean it when there's a 1 included!)

Btw, Mr. Train, did you ever hear that Bill Withers song? :)

[Dogmudgeon]

31. It's not "White Trash"

It's chromatically-challeneged pre-recycled organic waste.

--bkl

[dolo amber]

32. Pigmentally-challenged

;)

[Dogmudgeon]

36. Oh. I see.

I was referring to actual White Trash, like paper, styrofoam cups, plastic eating utensils, the inanimate objects, not living organisms. But if you want to chauvinistically privlege living organisms over the inanimate objects with whom we share this planet, that is your right.

And I have the right to continue to encourage my politically marginalized and disposessed inanimate bretheren and sisteren to Speak Truth To Living Organisms. Some of us have heard their bitter cries of alienation, and our political consciousness compels us to make a principled stand and express solidarity with their struggle against racist, sexist, life-ist biological hegemony.

¡Viva la Revolución Abiotica!

--bkl
Edited for clarity.

[dolo amber]

37. Oi!! You!!

Stop that!!

*My sides*
:D:D :cry:

[NightTrain]

33. Thanks for a good laugh!

That was pretty funny for a pompous jerk-off. :silly:

[blondeatlast]

50. I think you are right, as long as no insult is INTENDED.

But it is also okay to politely point out why a term is offensive. OTOH, it is incredible IMPOLITE to make a huge issue about it.

[REP]

35. One Of The Worst

is "differently abled" for crippled. "Disabled" and "handicapped" are less offensive euphemisms, but everytime I hear "differently abled" I wonder what moron thinks I've found a creative new use for my kidneys, pancreas and connective tissue.

[Barad Simith]

39. And the correct answer is:

No. If your kid's soccer team "was cunting awful at soccer and lost every single game," tell him something a little more encouraging than that. Otherwise he might turn out like you.

[Piperay]

42. PC doesn't bother me as much as

PC Police do, those self-rightious pompous assholes who jump on one small little slip that you might make then miss the point of the conversation cause of their focus. :mad: :argh: :grr:

[jsw_81]

44. No no no

If I saw a retarded black midget, I'd say I saw a fucking retarded black midget.

That would be a mentally-challenged-African-American-little-person.

[alwynsw]

51. I prefer my buddy's t-shirt

It says

"I'm crippled. Not physically challenged, not differently abled, not handicapped."

imagine the shit he takes sitting there in his wheelchair from all the PC police.

[George_Bonanza]

52. I just don't like the term "Indian"

Because they're not Indians, are they? Isn't this just a Eurocentric term that has just sticked, because Columbus was so stubbornly adamant he found India? Why must we circulate this erroneous term? I mean, a white person is more or less white. Black people are more or less black. Yellow people are more or less yellow. But natives are not Indian.

[SmileyBoy]

54. I agree with that. I wish we could use the term "First Nations"...

...like a lot of Canadians have been using for decades. It's not a PC thing per se, it's just a better description. Whenever I mention someone who is American Indian/Native American, I just mention the tribe they're from. i.e. Sioux, Ojibwa, Cherokee, etc. So I say that that person is Cherokee, or whatever.

[SmileyBoy]

53. So am I. I'm the most anti-PC liberal you'll find.

You wouldn't BELIEVE the type of PC garbage some of my high school teachers would try to pump into me years ago. One teacher would tell me that it's offensive to call someone "retarded", or some shit. I had one teacher say that it was wrong to call someone "gay" who is a homosexual. No bullshitting. SO WHAT THE FUCK DO WE CALL THEM THEN, YOU PC-FASCIST????!!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

55. Well GOD FORBID someone on this thread suggest that the manner

in which we LANGUAGE ourselves both GIVES us our impression of the world and gives others an impression of US and our impression of the world.

Sorry, I completely disagree with all the rebellious attitudes on this thread that DON'T realize that they ARE BEING PC by rebelling against PC...if you want to see group think in action just look at the choir who responded VOID of all thought with a knee-jerk reaction.

If I saw a retarded black midget, I'd say I saw a fucking retarded black midget.

Feel free to say that, as your first amendment rights allow you to do so but if I heard someone say that, I would say, "I HEARD an IGNORANT person who regards themselves as a progressive using language which both DISEMPOWERS the subject of her language and herself."

It's unfortunate because that is probably not true of you.
I am of the OPPOSTIE mindset..I wonder how far we will take the REBELLION to PC which underscores a behavioral problem much more than any reflective enlightenment.

Getting people to THINK about HOW they language their world and what world it creates is a process of enlightenment and creates far different results both in conversations and ACTIONS that accompany those conversations.

Let's look at these two sentences.

"Dad is BOUND to a wheelchair"

"Dad USES a wheelchair"

Notice how they drive your thoughts or interpretation of the person in the wheelchair???

Think about it ..PLEASE.

If we live in a world run by the language of hatred and violence, then why complain that the world is full of hatred and violence?

[noiretextatique]

56. thanks for stating the OBVIOUS, nsma

i have a second cousin who referred to her four daughters as "bitches and hoes" all their lives because she was a mean, horrible, ugly, hateful woman. now that she's mellowed...and dying...she wonders why her daughters are all exactly what SHE told them they were their entire lives...and why they are raising another generation just like them. bitter, dehumanizing words don't generally get uttered by happy, healthy, well-adjusted, enlightened people. definitely something to keep in mind.

it's pretty damn amazing to believe that words don't have power, considering what a significant and complex thing language is...it's a means of expression, it's plays a huge role in how we are socialized...and how we come to view and understand the world we live in, and how we interact with each other. and how we express our values and beliefs through language, stated and cloaked, and what that tell others about US. it's pretty clear to me that the language we use is more of a reflection of where we are in consciousness than just about anything else.

[Karenina]

70. Language MATTERS.

Why is that these "anti-PC" threads are commonly begun by whites defending to the death their "right" to use rude, crude, humiliating, dehumanizing or merely insensitive terminology to describe "the other?"
The very idea that "the other" would dare call their assumptions and expressions to account is INFURIATING! I ask only, what is WRONG with accomodating another individual's sensibilities, EVEN is cases where it may seem to go overboard?

I really have no brief with "African American" or "black." Personally, the term "African American" denies many of my forbears and to be quite honest, my skin is NOT black, nor is my hair (as described on my drivers' license). However it's no skin off my nose to accomodate anyone who, for whatever reason, prefers one term to another.

One can search the archives for the OUTRAGE, I TELL YOU, OUTRAGE, expressed by Southerners, Blue collar workers, "white trash" etc. ad nauseum when they feel THEIR sensibilities, humanity and nuanced differences have been overlooked and disrespected.

Frankly, I believe that Americans' "Englisch Only" paradigm has done them a great disservice. Being immersed in another language forces one to accomodate different mentalities and levels of thought. It is quite an eye-opener to realize that the slip of tongue in addressing someone as "Du" rather than "Sie" can have ramifications in one's ability to make contact with another human being and affect his/her attitude towards you.

What I don't get is the arrogance and the "who cares what YOU think (or how you feel)" train of thought. "Making ME have to think about how YOU feel is irritating and inconvenient. FUCK YOU!" I just don't get it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

71. We used to live inside a paradigm where my rights end where yours begin

Now we live in a paradigm called "I've got mine, tough shit on you."

Isn't it the least bit interesting to see the worlds that are bred from these simple constructs?

:thumbsup:

(but take solace in the notion that we can all complain about Bush on other threads but never stop to consider the language that gave rise to him)

[noiretextatique]

74. well, karenina...as you may know, i associate this with privilege

it's really quite fascinating that some people are so resentful about being "forced" to use the term "african-american." doesn't it reek of some overblown sense of ownership...even over the ability to "name" other people? the notion of being "put upon" by being asked to respect other people is just something i find impossible to fathom.
:wtf: why in the hell should i "resent" addressing someone as whatever THEY choose? i don't get that either.
i agree that all americans should be forced to learn another language...it really does help one better understand the power of language.
and isn't all the of "anti-pc" nonsense really about "ugly americanism," of the kind that has so infected the consciousness of too many citizens of this country...for far too long? and isn't the very embodiment of "ugly americanism" currently occupying the white house? our problem is america: there is too much agreement on our side (re: wedge issues like "pc") with the opposition. the success of the cultural wars rears its head...again.
and guess who's CD i'm listening to right now :loveya:

[SOteric]

58. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I just popped into DU for a moment's time and this was the first thread up. I couldn't believe there wasn't a single soul who would speak up for sensitivity and the impact of language.

[Booberdawg]

73. Language does matter.

Wow. Where to begin. How about thank you, NSMA, for speaking up, for starters.

a fucking retarded black midget

my kid's soccer team was cunting awful at soccer

Having had the distinct honor and privilege over most of my adult life of spending a lot of personal and volunteer time in the company of "fucking retards" as children and teens, I find that particular characterization particularly offensive. That is not to discount the wealth of other offenses apparent in the statements above. I presume this is a BOYS soccer team that is being referred to as "cunting awful". Holy Jebus! WTF??

Yikes.

I actually prefer that people point out to me the PC of some particular topic if I have, out of just plain ignorance or lack of thought, caused someone offense.

I don't know what else to say....

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

75. It's called being a decent human being

:thumbsup:

[Booberdawg]

78. A lot of this isn't even about PC from what I can see.

A good deal of this is about plain fricking common courtesy. When the hell did good manners go out of vogue? Sheesh!

[noiretextatique]

79. "pc" seems to be a catchall term that means different things

to different people. i've noticed that those who proclaim to be anit-pc, and even claim it has caused "political damage," don't bother defining what exactly "pc" means. it's code language...i just wish someone would translate for me :shrug:

[Dr Fate]

80. Anything you are afraid to say to the face of a particular class= PC

Those poor, down-trodden Conservatives seem to be saying: "Those god-damned Liberals wont let me say Nigger and Faggot no more!!!"

Fact is , most of these anti-PC types were too chicken to say it in in front of the class in question to begin with!!!

Most Liberals do not have a problem with "PC", because they would have never felt the need to use these words to begin with!!!

The ONLY problem I have with PC is that Republicans who used to say "nigger" and "faggot" are better equipped to hide their feelings now-thanks to PC language, they have learned how to fool a lot of moderates...

example- "You say Rush is a racist-but can you prove it"-15 years ago we could have proved this by simply pointing to his language, now he and his clones INCORPORATE PC tehniques to HIDE their biggotry...

The laughable thing to me about the anti-PC crowd is that they are too cowardly to use the words they long to be accepted ( "nigger" or "faggot") in front of minorities or gays to begin with!!! They wish for these words to accepted so they can once again utter them with impunity...

IF SOMEONE WANTS TO SAY "NIGGER" OR "FAGGOT" in a hateful context- by all means SAY IT- but dont come crying to me blaming "Liberals" when you get criticised (or your butt kicked!!!) for it...

My rule: Never say anything that you would not say in front of anyone. Anything less is cowardice.

[noiretextatique]

85. it's high time the 'moderates' wake the hell up

it's my feeling at least, that much damage is being caused by people remaining unconscious to manipulation by the rw and their wedge issues. rush fools no one really, does he? the problem is, as you mentioned, "pc" has been sold as victimization of white men and white america, particularly conservative conservative white america. so, rush isn't a racist because his coded language is effective...it's because accurately calling him a racist is much more of a taboo now than is his racism. and this is the rub...it's not "pc" to call him a racist, even though he is a racist, or sounds like one...it's just "screaming racism" now. and this is coming from our comrades, not just from conservatives.

[Dr Fate]

93. You crystalized my thoughts...

...you said exactly what I was trying to convey...

Your example of accusing racism as politically incorrect is true- and another example of how the Right use "PC" against us...

The news media (I believe it occurs less,or at least I see positive trends in music and movies, fortunatly), especially "Debate" shows and RW radio have done a through job of distorting the whole "PC" issue...

I would love to see it framed like some of the arguments i have seen on this thread- all I ever see are RWers playing the victim...

[Booberdawg]

87. I think a lot of times it's just an excuse to hide behind

"free speech" to justify behaving like an asshole. I don't know what the official definition of "PC" is, but my understanding of it is that it is simply a way of being sensitive to the differences in diverse groups of people.

Now, let's think about this .. why the hell should it bother me to refer to a particular demographic of people the way they prefer to be addressed, unless I have my own issues with that demographic that I am unwilling to admit to and deal with. I'm convinced that therein lies much of the objection I see to "PC". Some instances are subtle, but others like "nigger" vs Black, "faggots" vs gays, "cunts" vs women, "retards" vs developmentally disabled, are so blatant as to go far beyond the bounds of PC and into unconcealed hatred, bigotry, and misogyny.

Just my .02

[noiretextatique]

95. a longing for the "good old days' perhaps?

as i recall, "pc" became an issue as women, people of color, disabled people, gays and lesbians, and so on...started becoming more visible and powerful, particularly in academia. i think it did start out as an attempt to force change in language, and therefore i consciousness. it's essentially as issue of power...the power some feel they are losing, and the resentment some feel that others are gaining power. inlcuding the power to challenge and change the way we think about ourselves, our history, and our culture....and our language....our collective humanity. isn't what is commonly referred to as being "anti-pc" just a part of the backlash against all the "others?" yep...i agree with you.

[Booberdawg]

98. Ah yes, the "loss of power"

What just popped into my thoughts are the pro-choice threads over the previous couple days that revealed a stubborn refusal by a few men to admit the real issue for them was, at it's root, a loss of "power and control" over women to make the ultimate decision to have an abortion, and indeed, the refusal to see child support as a responsibility toward the child and not the mother. In other words, responsible fucking is simply not an option (vasectomy, condoms, abstinence, masturbation, spermicides, etc.) as responsibility is always the responsibility of the women. Including abortions on demand if the irresponsible fucking fails and the man insists on it.

Sorry for the sidetrack ....

[Dr Fate]

59. Without language/communication, what do we have???

Just be prepared to back up your "language" I guess.

It helps if your language actually reflects your thoughts- if you dont have anything against Black midgets, then try not to communicate your feelings about them in a way that is hateful...

I dont know, Are we talking about Mel Brooks or Rush Limbaugh? MOTIVE behind the speech makes a difference to me...Mel Brooks or Chris Rock tells "racial" jokes and makes us laugh at/with ourselves and each other, Rush tells "racist" ones designed to make us laugh at and hate others...

[ploppy]

60. Is cunting

actually a word or did you make it up? I haven't heard this adjective.

[Maddy McCall]

61. ...amazed that someone would use this term in reference to his own child

sad, sad, sad.

[Dr Fate]

62. It is intentionally more offensive to women than the non-gender "fucking"

..."cunting" stresses the "point" of being non-PC on purpose more than saying "fucking" ever could...I mean, that is the point of the post- right?- not to communicate thought, but just to piss people off on purpose...

The poster of this thread should say "cunting" all he wants, I guess- but every now and then, instead of asking why those mean "language police" dont want you to say certain words, just for once ask yourself the question "WHY do I want to say it???"

[noiretextatique]

63. correction: the poster is a woman

a self-described "short, dumpy, white chick." even MORE shocking since it's uttered by a woman.

[Dr Fate]

67. I stand by my analysis just the same...

...the word was chosen for "shock" value- the word was chosen as a prime example of somthing that is "offensive" to some...

I've been known to utter a non "PC" phrase every now and then myself- I lampoon "Rednecks", "Gangstas", "Christians", "Right Wingers" and even "Feminists" and "Leftists"...often I use colorful metaphors and the like...

My main concern is MOTIVE- does one use non-PC phrases to COMMUNICATE a point, or does one use them to merely "rebel" or stir up negative emotions (fear, exclusivity, etc)...


See my post above for me there is a Mel Brooks, Richard Pryor, or Chris Rock school, and then there is the Rush Libbaugh/Mike Savage school....

[noiretextatique]

68. no...i agree....your analysis was right on

i was just pointing out that women, say someone like ann coulter, can say foul things about women, like we shouldn't be allowed to vote...and that has more shock value because she IS a woman. same with the RW black people...they can get away with saying things that would be considered racist if uttered by a RW white person.

[NashVegas]

104. "Sanitation expert and a maintenance engineer

Garbage man, a janitor and you my dear
A real union flight attendant, my oh my
You ain't nothin' but a waitress in the sky"

That sums up the thoughts of some of us who are beyond tired of the language police. Wrapping everything up in niceties and ignoring reality for the sake of some self-esteem project.

There's nothing wrong with referring to someone who has a 60 IQ as retarded, as opposed to the nicer "developmentally disabled." I can be nice and use the latter phrase, but that's my choice. Regarding heavy-handed efforts to make people use the phrase you want them to use, if I have to choose between being rude and being a control freak for other peoples' behavior, I choose rude.

[noiretextatique]

105. rude is a choice

and one that even she found distasteful in the light of day. perhaps as she mentioned, she wasn't just being rude, but also ignorant and crass. as to her motives...it seems it was about anger and too many beers. so...it seems the "point" of this entire thread was not about "pc" at all, just the rantings of someone who was angry and drunk. i think she showed some class by reconsidering her words when sober.

[Booberdawg]

106. At least you appropriately term your choice as rude

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

64. The poster already admitted they would never be intentionally offensive

they simply reserve the right to be unconsciously offensive.

I just don't have much use for unconscious people.

It's kind of a shame because that poster is from the south and southerners really resent all the unconsciousness hurled at them in the language of "in-bred" "trailer trash" "racist" "stupid" and the like.

Maybe if they railed less against PC, they would have some insight into how these stereotypes become reality for some.

[noiretextatique]

65. question: doesn't this seem to indicate some acknowledgement

that being offensive is not acceptable...even to her? :shrug: i was confused about that myself.

[dolo amber]

66. M'kay

I've asked for this thread to be locked; as I stated to the mods, the combination of being incredibly annoyed at some PC nazis I'd encountered and beers did not play out so well in the judgement centers of my brain. And while I do still feel that the PC thing is out of hand for the most part, I certainly didn't mean to come off quite so belligerently ignorant and crass.

Thanks! :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

69. Sorry, but you let the cat out of the bag and to call those that think

before they speak PC nazi's is really a slap in the face.

You have a right to free speech no matter how belligerent and offensive it may be.

So do those of us who would take you to task for it. I request the thread NOT be locked.

You revealed yourself, now live with it.

[rbnyc]

86. I agree, NSMA, about the PC nazi remark.

I actually wasn't offended by the initial post, but the use of that term shows a lack of regard for specific people's specific concerns and it's a real turn-off.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

88. It's name calling...it doesn't offend me at all

It says more about the person using the term than anything. They have adopted Rushian language ala feminazi and the like and then wonder how a knuckle dragging asswipe like Limbaugh can be so popular...hmmm..let me see...how is that?

Maybe it has something to do with him appealing to people's more BASE impulses which are usually void of any real thoughtfulness as the word IMPULSE implies.

[rbnyc]

94. I love the way you look at things.

It's great to have you around.

[alwynsw]

72. I'm a Native American

I'm a WASP, born in Maryland. That makes me Native American. Q.E.D.

My point: if the pc crowd is going to substitute or invent titles for every difference in heritage, skin color, religion, etc. ad nauseum, let's at least try to make the new titles somewhat accurate and descriptive.

If we want to get pc, I'm Irish-American. I don't see it that way. I'm simply American. Any U.S. citizen should be proud of that title as it stands - no additions of any sort. This will get me a ton of heat, but the qualifiers simply add to division.

I have a heritage and I'm damned proud of it. You should be proud of yours, period. What your ancestors or my ancestors did privately, in business, or in public life should have no bearing upon who you are today. They may have left you rich or penniless (mine left me in the middle), but money or lack thereof is no measure of the individual. Only the actions of an individual are an accurate measuring stick in the present or future. What is past is history. Let's use that history to aid us in avoiding political, social, and economic pitfalls.

Regardless of ancestry, we all have things to be proud of in our heritage. We also (yes, all of us) have things in that heritage that range from discomfiting to abhorrent. being pc today will not right any past wrongs or do much in preventing current or future wrongs.

Those who would commit terrible acts generally make their best effort to appear as part of the crowd.

[Loyal]

77. That's pretty racist

nt

[David Zephyr]

81. To Dolo Amber

Last night as I was leaving the DU, I saw your thread and posted to you that I thought Noiretblu's first post had sent the right message which was subtle, respectful and yet instructive.

Having returned to the DU today, I found that her original gracious message was siezed upon quickly signalling that what might have been an honest frustration with so-called political correctness might reaveal something deeper.

So I will now say what I should have said last night:

The term "retard" is extremely ugly and offensive and vicious and hurtful and says more about the person who uses the term than anyone it might pretend to describe. This has nothing to do with "political correctness", but everything to do with what Noiretblu correctly called "common decency".

You opened your thread with this comment, "If I saw a retarded black midget, I'd say I saw a fucking retarded black midget."

My question is to you, would you say this to the individual's face or just behind the individual's back?

Why you chose to make your example of a person of color also makes me wonder why.

Finally, Armistead Maupin has a very special book entitled, "Maybe the Moon" which might make you think twice before using the term midget or dwarf in the manner that you did.

One shouldn't have to worry about PC Police monitoring their words as much as we all should check our hearts before we utter them.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

82. There is NO SUCH THING as PC police. Name calling is a poor debate tactic.

There are people who say things. And those of us who believe that they mean what they say. When we point out what that which they say means, they have a problem with it.

So for the ANTI-PC, I will give an ANTI-PC answer: TOUGH FUCKING TITTIES! We're HERE, we're CLEAR on the MEANING of language and are going to point it out when we feel like it as is our free speech right (which is NO less important than yours regardless of what you think), GET THE FUCK OVER IT.
(how was my first attempt at anti-pc?) :evilgrin:

[eauclaireliberal]

83. RE: I'm sick to f*cking death of being "PC"

Back when I was an orderly at the Milwaukee VA, I was helping ambulate a hemiplegic who told me "...I don't go to 'nam' and get my ass shot off just so a bunch of white liberals could call me an African-American."

"Black" is the prefered term. Anything else is usually considered rude: His point was that to be called african-American was somehow indicating second-class citizenship. They are Americans.

[rbnyc]

84. The problem is that instead of looking at the substance...

...we just learn to recognize emblems, which ones are "good" and which ones are "bad". No person of depth has to worry about being PC at all, IMO.

I often defend the so-called PC movement because I feel like I was very much a part of creating it, trying to combat sexism, homophobia and racism in college. We wanted people to learn not only that it's wrong to punch a person in the stomach for being gay, but why. Instead they learned that they can't say faggot in public and that if they beat up a gay person they'll be in big trouble. And we wanted people to learn to respect the way people and groups self identify, instead they learned that they should say African-American instead of black, which misses the point and doesn't even make sense because not every black person you see is African-American.

Generally we have a huge cultural deficit when it comes to our capacity to scratch below the surface. This infects everything we try to do.

BTW, I'm a feminist who calls herself a girl, loves the word bitch, and has been known to check out girls walking down the street and utter phrases such as 'nice rack'. So I'm with ya' baby.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

91. I actually DO shudder for anyone on DU that has a developmentally

disabled child.

I'll bet they are glad they came to a progrssive site for support.
:eyes:

[David Zephyr]

92. Or Sister or Brother or Parent or Friend or Neighbor

Me, too.

[Booberdawg]

96. A particularly cheap shot since many of them are not able

to speak up for themselves as other people can.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

97. Is it not the goal of social darwinism to exploit the weak?

Look at how the weak minded on this thread play right into the hands of the right.

Aren't we constantly reminded that if we don't stop shit-picking, they will all lean Repub in the next election?

[Booberdawg]

99. Christ

The thought of disabled children in terms of social darwinism to exploit the weak makes me absolutely fucking sick. And goddamned angry.

Any society can be judged by the way they treat their least.

But yes, that is what the right seeks to do. Even if they have to stack the deck, lie, cheat, and steal.

Fuck. I think I'm going to go read a book now.

[David Zephyr]

101. May I Recommend "Maybe the Moon"

The best thing Armistead ever wrote.

[Booberdawg]

102. I checked it out on Amazon the first time you mentioned it

I just received 12 books this week that I recently ordered so I put "Maybe the Moon" on my wish list to look at next time.

Thanks David. :hi:

[David Zephyr]

103. Whatever You Do, Don't Even Peek at the Ending.

What a surprize that little book turned out to be. My other half and I read it together in Provincetown two summers ago and wound up sobbing woefully in our room. The owner of the bed and breakfast asked us later if we were "OK"? It is funny as hell, heartbreaking and yet redeeming. Don't peek at the ending whatever you do.

You'll never see E.T. the same way again.

Best Wishes.

--DZ

[Uzybone]

100. Why does anyone care about being "PC"

if you talk shit and some people dont like it, then they will try and correct you. Some of them may insult and ostracize you. But if you continue repeating shit, then everyone will insult and ostracize you becasue you have shown that you would rather say what you want how you want, than care about thier feelings. But they cannot stop you from saying shit. So the choice is yours. If a group of short black people want to be called vertically challenged Afro Americans (which I think is a stupid term) and you refuse to do it, then youll deal with the consequences. People bitching about being PC piss me off, because no one can force them to say or stop saying anything.

[Iris]

107. Words have power.

Keep saying something over and over about a group of people and many people will begin to believe it. I don't understand why people can't see that.

Vulgarity is vulgarity, but I find it interesting that you would call your son's soccer team "cunting awful" as opposed to "dicking awful" or "penising awful" or "one-eyed snaking awful."