Mel Gibson's The Passion

[George_Bonanza]

Are you going to see it? Personally, I would, because all the controversy has made it more interesting. From the glimpses, it's VERY brutal and holds nothing back. I'd like to see for myself if it really is anti-Semitic. But I wonder if this anti-Semitic hysteria is nothing but overreaction to the truth: That corrupt Jews did play a significant role, along with the Romans, in killing Jesus. Jesus was a Jew. His followers were Jews. He lived in a town of Jews. I'd think it's only natural that his killers would be Jews, and Romans. Nazareth wasn't exactly cosmopolitan back then.

[Superfly]

1. How can it be anti-Semitic

when Jesus himself was a Jew? So, weren't the Semites the first anti-Semites?

BTW I can't wait to see it.

[BurtWorm]

2. I won't be seeing it.

I believe Jesus is a mythological figure. I don't think you do myth a service by pretending to make it as "realistic" as possible.

[Catch22Dem]

3. hear hear

I 2nd that!

[Superfly]

4. So, are you saying that

crucifictions of other non-"mytholgical figures" did not happen? See it for no other reason than for an "archaeological expose'".

BTW, there is quite a bit of evidence, too much to post in the ten minutes before I turn in, on the existence of the man we call Jesus. Whether or not he was the son of God is a matter of individual faith.

[BurtWorm]

8. I haven't seen any evidence that convinces me.

I've read a couple of extremely persuasive arguments for why Jesus could only be mythological. I'm inclined to believe them until stronger evidence arises that he was historical.

[Superfly]

9. Alright, I can respect that

but is that a reason for not seeing the film?

[BurtWorm]

11. It just doesn't interest me.

The myth or story itself I don't find interesting. The question of what it really is is much more interesting.

[Superfly]

12. And that, we may never know

or know only upon our respective deaths.

[soleft]

7. I would love to someday see a historically accurate

well, as accurate as possible, story of the guy who inspired the mythology, a teacher who had travelled in the far east and returned to teach a form of Buddhism to his fellow Jews. Did you ever notice how many American Buddhists are also reform Jews?

[BurtWorm]

10. I personally don't believe there was ever a human model for Jesus.

I believe he's based on other myths, like Mithras.

[LynneSin]

5. I'll see it when I know I'm not donating any money to Mel Gibson

meaning it's on TV and it's free for me to watch it (outside the cable bill).

I will not give another dime to anything Mel Gibson.

[The Magistrate]

6. It Is Not The Fact Itself, Sir

But the theological implications reared upon it, that have presented a problem.

It is a mistake to regard, as is done in the making of this film, the accounts of the event as a species of journalism or history. They are no such thing. They were written for political and theological reasons, decades after the events purportedly described. By that time, there had a arisen a great estrangement between this sect of Messianic Jews and other sects of Messianic Jews, both groups hostile to the Temple authorities. In the wake of a Jewish revolt, and tremendous Roman suppression of same, it was needful for the sect based on the crucified Jesus to make clear to the Roman authorities they had no connection at all with these rebels, were not associated with Jews in any real way, and were not themselves in the least hostile to Rome. These concerns shape the narratives provided to posterity. There is no particular reason to credit any detail given in them, most especially concerning the arrest and trial themselves.

[Djinn]

14. Not unless my insomnia comes back

Isn't it meant to be over 3 hours long and performed in Aramaic? sounds highly tedious to me.

And DITTO to what The Magistrate says, the Bible is a political document

[harrison]

13. Jesus had the misfortune of pissing off a bunch of groups. When

Jesus rode in on the donkey on what we celebrate as Palm Sunday, he would have come into view of the Antonia Fortress, the Roman military headquarters. They would have seen the people waving palm branches and shouting "hosanna" which, of course, means, "save us." Palm branches were a symbol of the Hasmonean Monarchy and the Macabbean Revolt in the 160's BCE, and were a symbol of Jewish nationalism in the first century. The people wanted Jesus to do to the Romans what Judah the Hammer had done to the Greeks in 164 BCE.

So, the Romans saw Jesus as a threat and they intended to keep things clamped down.

Jesus pissed off the Zealots who were looking for a charismatic fiture to help them rally the people to revolt against Rome. He disappointed them.

Jesus pissed off the folks in the Temple when he turned over the money changer's tables. The Temple was controlled by the religious group, the Sadducees. This authority was granted to the Sadducees by the Romans, so not only was Jesus creating political problems for the Sadducees by attacking the Temple, he was interfering with their money making ability as well.

Jesus also pissed off the Pharisees, referring to them as being full of filth and like whitewashed tombs, looking beautiful on the outside, but inside full of the bones of the dead.

So, Jesus was killed by the religious and political pillars of the day.

[The Magistrate]

15. However, Sir

Do you imagine if someone had actually done that in Temple forecourt, there would not have been an immediate response by the garrisson? Trouble is nipped in the bud, after all, by competent authorities.

It is just this sort of thing that needs a sharp eye about the narratives presented, and ought to to warn against taking them as reportage.

[Tinoire]

16. You summed it up nicely!

I will certainly go see this film because from everything I've read it is an accurate representation of the New Testament gospels. That is ALL I am interested in and if Mel Gibson accomplished that, I will applaud him from every roof-top.

To say that Passion is anti-Semitic is to say that the gospels and Christianity are anti-Semitic- pure bunk. Anyone reading anti-Semitism into the gospels has not taken the time to read them.

[FloridaJudy]

17. I'll probably see it, just to see what all the fuss is about

I'm not a big Mel Gibson fan: the guy is unapologitic bigot! He not only has been quoted as saying that Women should stay at home, keep their mouths shut, and raise the children, but he's gone on record opposing Birth Control. I don't care how cute the man's buns are: I wouldn't let him within twelve feet of me.

His father is an infamous Holocaust Denier. Normally, I don't hold the sins of fathers against their children. But Mel has gone on record defending his Dad as a victim of a "Jewish Conspiracy" to defame him.

On the other hand, I've always been fascinated by that charismatic Rabbi from the hinderlands who had the chutzpah to take on not only the Privileged Class of his own people, but the Aristocratic Invaders as well.

[BurtWorm]

18. Render Unto Caesar

How is that taking on the invaders? I've always detected a pro-Roman bias in the NT. Where do people get the Rebel against the Romans thing from?