Gimme signs, any signs, that an authentic counter-culture

[deutsey]

is possible and in the works today.

In my opinion, one of the reasons Nixon's junta collapsed in the '70s was that a strong counter-culture had developed during the '50s and '60s with large numbers of people sharing sensibilities and a worldview that undermined Nixon's fascism.

I'm hard pressed to see such a community today, but maybe it's out there in ways I'm not seeing right now.

Enlighten me.

(now watch this post sink into oblivion...)

[Zuni]

1. necrophiliacs

it is making a comeback!

[deutsey]

4. Yeah, well, that sure was the one thing that brought Nixon down, wasn't it

:shrug:

[Zuni]

8. what?

Are you saying you want to bring back the Hippies? Man those people were freaks. ;)

[deutsey]

10. Hell no

I want to something akin to the Yippies, SDS, the Panthers, and those that organized the anti-war protests in Chicago in '68.

I want the Beats, the Diggers, and the Merry Pranksters.

Fuck the hippies.

[SmokingJacket]

2. As far as I can tell, it mostly exists on the internet.

There are small bits of disconnected communities out there -- and maybe bigger ones that I haven't seen -- but mostly it's, well, here.

Whether an internet culture can make a real difference in the world has yet to be seen.

[deutsey]

6. That's what I think...and unfortunately, I don't think that's enough

We need face-to-face groups developing offline if there's ever to be any kind of social bite to our "movement." IMO.

[Deja Q]

3. I'll try to kick it as I'm am very interested too.

[Droopy]

5. I wouldn't know

I would think that if there is such a movemenmt it would be noticeable in the large cities first and it might start to creep into popular music. I've heard a lot of anti-Bush stuff, but as for a counter-culture I don't know.

[deutsey]

7. That's the problem

Lots of "anti-Bush stuff" is percolating out there (much of it online), but we don't have a coherent cultural/social dimension to this sentiment.

[amazona]

9. I really can't tell you there is a counter-culture

However, the counter-culture is not what brought Nixon down. What brought Nixon down was infighting amongst the power brokers. Deep Throat bitter he didn't get the promotion. Media bitter that Nixon didn't give the interviews or look so good on camera. The counter culture was an irrelevance and mostly hauled out to justify "law and order" because otherwise OMG, Charles Manson.

There are cultures where prevailing politics are considered stupid or irrelevant but it's because the people in those cultures are truly odd or off the beaten path. Think of nerd/hacker culture before it got co-opted by Microsoft money. Card-counting culture before people got diverted into poker and taking money off each other instead of the "man" and so on. Back-packer culture where people throw their clothes in a backpack and bum around the world. These cultures exist, but they don't have political power or awareness. I am not waiting for the counter culture to save me because I know too many of these people and they are effin' clueless.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[deutsey]

11. Yep, the anti-war protests, feminism, civil rights

None of that made a dent.

:sarcasm:

Look, I ain't talking about the fricking long hairs passing out flowers and saying all starry-eyed: Make love not war. I'm talking about the cultural revolution (which had its stupidities and self-indulgences) that sought to challenge the power brokers but imploded on itself thanks in large part to LSD and corporate co-option.

Personally, as much as I admire the Pranksters from the '60s, I think they were unwitting pawns in a psyops project to destabilize the social movements of the '60s.

Read "Acid Dreams." I'm not alone in thinking this.

http://www.levity.com/aciddreams/

And as a PS I should say that I don't believe we should return to whatever counter-culture emerged in the '60s. Fuck that. The copyright on that is already owned by corporate America. I mean, we need to come up with our own culture that counters the prevailing corporate ethos.

[EC]

12. We need another Abbie Hoffman

or Jerry Rubins, Bobby Seal, etc....people not afraid of getting arrested and smart enough to bet the courts...


On edit: there is a counter coulture, just no leaders....

[LeftyMom]

13. I don't think there is one

I was talking to somebody yesterday at the snack break of our PDA meeting (I forgot the gentleman's name, and I'm paraphrasing, please forgive me for both offenses) and he was saying that he feels what led to the downfall of Nixon was that the country was becoming ungovernable. I think he had a point (Admitedly, Reagan was president when I was born, so my opinion on this matter really doesn't mean shit. Please humor me.) because the protests and counterculture, often blamed for the downfall of Nixon, had already peaked. It was after that peak, with cynicism and distrust of the govt growing amongst the general population, that the powerful in this country sacrificed Nixon to assuage the public anger.

People are angry, but the country is still governable, and the movers and shakers have learned that putting a face on the corruption and deciept means that all they need to do is put a new face on the teevee. If people are pissed, Bush (or a sufficiently high ranking and unlikable subordinate, maybe Rumsfeld) will be blamed and punished, and nothing will change.


Regarding counterculture, people have let the corporate media define rebellion for them. Independence isn't a state of mind anymore, it's a brand. Rebellion is a penis-shaped car, or a big truck, or a racing tuned Japanese econobox, depending on your demographic, or it's a style of dress, or a certain style of music or computer brand, but it's never portrayed as a way of thinking anymore. THIS is newspeak, people don't even think rebellious thoughts anymore, because the media has convinced people that rebelliousness and questioning of authority aren't modes of thought, they're resons to hop in the new Canyonero and go buy a Che shirt at the mall, 'cause you know, that'll stick it to the facists or something. :eyes:

[Lannes]

14. Reminds me of a line from "Pump up the Volume"

"All the great themes have been used up and turned into theme parks"

[chickenscratching]

15. NAMBLA ?

I hear they're pretty progressive.
:rofl:

On a serious note, sadly I cannot think of one. :shrug:
Hopefully we can come to grips and bring ourselves together; I don't necessarily see that happening relatively soon, but it's most definitely in our future, I believe.

[MrSlayer]

16. It's hard to have a counter culture when it's an "Anything goes" society.

The excessive sex drugs and rock n roll lifestyle of the time that was so shocking and different is old hat today. Everyone smokes weed, gratuitous sex is mainstream and the music which came from the heart is now mass produced corporate drek with very, very few exceptions. And that goes for all genres. Couple that with the extreme apathy half of the country subscribes to and you come to the conclusion that it's nearly impossible to have a social upheaval on the scale of what went down in the 60's. Now if, as predicted, they start the Iran war soon and have a draft there may be a bit of a resurgence but I still don't believe it will ever be on the scale it was at the height of the Vietnam protests. America on the whole is selfish, comfortable and more than happy to do nothing but watch reality shows on the boob tube.