Simon & Garfunkel fans: What does "Parsley, sage, rosemary and time" mean?

[bluestateguy]

From the song "Scarborough Fair". Those lyrics always struck me as rather cryptic. Any idea as to what that means?

[MrScorpio]

1. That's Thyme not Time

All Seasonings

[jonnyblitz]

2. i think it is thyme not time...but i could be wrong..

i probably should check for lyrics online before i post this. it makes sense for it to be thyme tho because then they would be all spices.

[Lucky Luciano]

3. not time....

thyme....all spices...but i do not know what the song is really about.

[Arugula Latte]

4. I always assumed it was an old folk song

I mean really old. But I don't know for sure.

Do they spell it "time" rather than "thyme"? I thought it was a list of herbs to get at the market/fair.

[Arugula Latte]

6. Okay four of us clarified "thyme" within a minute.

I can't type fast enough!

[deutsey]

10. I think the tune is a public domain folk tune

The Stone Roses did a folk tune that is exactly like "Scarborough Fair" only different words and credited it to "public domain."

Simon wrote the lyrics, though (?)

[babylonsister]

5. Stuffing

ingredients? :shrug:

[Arugula Latte]

7. Here are the lyrics:

Are you goin’ to scarborough fair? parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme
Remember me to one who lives there, she once was a true love of mine

Tell her to make me a cambric shirt, parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme
Without no seams nor needlework, then she’ll be a true love of mine

Tell her to find me an acre of land, parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme
Between the salt water and the sea strand, then she’ll be a true love of mine

Tell her to reap it in a sickle of leather, parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme
And to gather it all in a bunch of heather, then she’ll be a true love of mine

Are you goin’ to scarborough fair? parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme
Remember me to one who lives there, she once was a true love of mine

[carpediem]

8. an herbalist's theory on the song

http://www.gardenerspath.com/articles/herbalist/parsleysage.html

each herb carried a meaning.

-snip

For instance,

* Thyme: Girls once used thyme sprigs in ceremonies to discover the identity of their true loves. A more upscale lady of Medieval times would embroider a flowering thyme sprig along with a visiting bee as a token to be given to a favored knight. A woman wearing thyme was once held to be irresistable.

* Sage: Sage was once used to help childless couples conceive, and is associated with wisdom and longevity in plant lore. It was also used magically to honor weddings and to ensure domestic harmony.

* Rosemary: Was once held to represent love and faithfulness. The plant was used in wedding ceremonies in place of rings as a sign of fidelity, and carried by newlyweds and wedding guests as a charm for fertility. But it also has the meaning of remembrance, as Shakespeare noted in Hamlet 'there's rosemary for remembrance.' Often used in love potions, it is also said to attract elves.

* Parsley: It was once believed that only witches and pregnant women could grow this herb--Sow parsley, sow babes, was an old expression. The herb has been associated with witchcraft in England and also with death since ancient times. But more importantly, it is said to provoke lust and love.

-snip

He also passes along a little metaphorical token of his feelings in the form of the bouquet: parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme. Keeping in mind the available lore, here is one possible translation:

* Thyme: I'm yours.

* Sage: I'm dependable.

* Rosemary: Remember me.

* Parsley: I want to make babies with you.

-snip

[NNadir]

19. Fascinating. Thanks. n/t

[OKNancy]

9. You can learn anything on the internet

http://www.geocities.com/paris/villa/3895/

Snippet:

The history of the song
In the middle ages, people didn't usually take credit for songs or other works of art they made, so the writer of Scarborough Fair is unknown. The song was sung by bards (or shapers, as they were known in medieval England) who went from town to town, and as they heard the song and took it with them to another town, the lyrics and arrangements changed. This is why today there are many versions of Scarborough Fair, and there are dozens of ways in which the words have been written down.



The lyrics
The following lyrics comprise most of the more well-known verses as they are commonly sung. A small handful of them were sung by Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel on their 1966 album 'Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme,' which popularised the song. Paul Simon learned the song from Martin Carthy, a famous folk singer in the UK, while he was on tour there. Despite using his arrangement of the song, Simon didn´t even mention Carthy´s name in the credits of the album.

[otohara]

13. Thanks Nancy

Such an interesting bit of music trivia!

:yourock: You know you do!

:headbang:

[wtmusic]

11. OMG that tune is old

we're talking "Greensleeves" old...like middle ages

[kskiska]

22. Henry VIII

supposedly wrote Greensleeves.

[ThoughtCriminal]

12. Bitterness towards a former lover?

It requests the listener to do impossible or difficult things that would be required in order for her to be a true love.

[Enraged_Ape]

14. It's from an old, old, old, old, old, old, old, old, folk song

From back in the days when a minstrel would strum his lute in the mead hall, warble the lyrics of this bonny tune, then get clouted on the head with the butt of a sword by a knight in shining armor.

Those were good times.

[frogbison]

15. Much like "whiskey in the Jar" times!

[Enraged_Ape]

16. Oh, there was many a concussion delivered by a sword butt...

over "Whiskey in the Jar". You just know it.

As I was going over the far famed Kerry mountains
I met with captain Farrell and his money he was counting.
I first produced my pistol, and then produced my rapier.
Said stand and deliver, for I am a bold deceiver...

[dsewell]

17. Hallucinogens and heretics

A mixture of dried parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme is a potent hallucinogen when smoked. It was prominent in the rituals of a 16th-century group of English heretics with origins among the Cathars of southern France, as well as a native underground group that had been formed by Roger Bacon, the 13th-century English friar who was excommunicated for writing a suppressed treatise on the sacramental use of hallucinogenic mushrooms.

The group were known as "Garfinkles", from old English gar = "spear" + finkle, a dialect variant of "fennel"; garfennel or spear-fennel was the common name of another hallucinogenic British plant whose identity is now disputed (it may be extinct). Art Garfunkel's adopted name is of course an allusion to the group, and the rest of the song's lyrics contain various references to their beliefs and practices. "Scarborough Fair" was the mythical location of the Garfinkle coven, which in fact shifted from place to place to avoid detection. When a member was asked about meeting location by someone he suspected of being an informer, the response would typically be a nonsense location like "between the salt water and the sea strand".

The cambric shirt "without no seams nor needlework" is a reference to a morning-glory (member of the Datura genus) that was also used by the Garfinkles to stimulate visions; it had a white flower that resembled a seamless shirt. The "sickle of leather" that is to be used to cut the herbs is the one dead giveaway in the song, because the leather sickle was the Garfinkle symbol par excellence, a concrete emblem of their belief in the "way of softness", i.e. the attainment of heaven through mystery and vision rather than through the hierarchical Church, which they nicknamed "the scythe" or "the sword" because it was said to kill what it touched.

The children's game "Simon says" is derived from another Garfinkle ritual, and is the origin of Paul Simon's assumed name.

Hope that helps!

[Arugula Latte]

21. Wow. I never heard any of that.

As Johnny Carson would say, that is wild, wild stuff. Thanks!

[markam]

18. Brings back memories

That song is from the first cd that I bought in 1984. Since I couldn't afford to buy cds, I probably listened to that album about 500 times.

[Arugula Latte]

20. Welcome to DU, markam!

:toast: :hi: