Gak!...What do you do when someone you like turns out to be an idiot?

[Khephra]

I can't get into the details, but lets just say that I found out one of my favorite writers was a NUMBER ONE asshole.

Sigh...I can't say more than that. NO MORE. NO quotes or anything like that.

Don't ask.

[matcom]

1. WILL PITT IS AN ASSHOLE????

you JUST found this out??

:D

*just kidding*

[Khephra]

4. Nah, I knew he was an asshole

That's why I love him.

;-)

[supernova]

2. Just appreciate their work

and let it go at that. You don't have to be in love with them. Is it someone here at DU? Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Khephra]

6. It's not someone here

and their works are involved with Sci-Fi...

Their work has been very political...but up until now it had a Libertarin edge more than a RW slant...

Now I find out that he has a contempt for Liberals. REAL contempt and ignorance of the facts. I think that last point is the more damaging since he's a SF writer.

[supernova]

11. Ohh Oohhh Mr Kotter pick me!

I think I know who I might be.... and no I'm no sayin'....

Just remember, you're probably getting the best of that person in their work.

[corarose]

28. Stephen King?

:kick:

[mac56]

3. You should never meet your heroes.

Always a mistake.

[theivoryqueen]

5. I take it back

If this person is willfully ignorant, employ avoidance techniques! It's no fun to hang with pseudo-intellectuals who won't do their homework.

[Khephra]

8. BUt what do you do if their fiction is political?

and it turns out that you may have misread them?

[BurtWorm]

14. Do you now feel like a stranger in a strange land?

:hi:

[arcane1]

15. yeah, there is definitely some RW-ness in HIS work

but he's also pro naked people, so I cut him some slack :-)

[theivoryqueen]

17. I might have been too harsh

I have some rather conservative pals, and while I do my best to convert them, I haven't given up on them because of their viewpoints. Even the hunters.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. I believe Lewis Carroll said

However you interpreted what I wrote, that's what I meant to say.

[shimmergal]

22. Don't worry about it (misreading his work). Your reading is as valid

as somebody else's. Write a review or article interpreting it the way you see it. If he really dislikes liberals it'll give him food for thought (or drive him up the wall, LOL.)

[TEXASYANKEE]

7. It's hard.

Kind of like when I found out that most of my dearest friends and closest relatives were/are Bush-loving Republicans. You've gotta separate what you don't like from what you do like. Not an easy task.

[SOteric]

9. I've had that happen.

*sigh*

I know of nothing that takes away the discomfort, but since such occasions I've given out far fewer pedestals.

[DoctorMyEyes]

10. Please tell me it's not Gibson!

I quote him too frequently. I will be crushed if it is.

[charlie]

12. Can't help myself, gotta guess

Jerry Pournelle?
Orson Scott Card?

[Greyskye]

16. I was going to guess...

...either Niven or Card. I met Niven and Pournelle once, and that was more than enough. :puke: Haven't bought a Niven book new ever since - and it's been about 20 years now.

[arcane1]

13. well, you do have a Cthulhu avatar

as do I....

But I can't say I agree with much of what HPL has to say on subjects of race and social policy... in fact much of those opinions are rather disgusting.

Now if you are dealing with someone who is actually alive, that's a different story. And sadly, I don't know what to tell you :)

:shrug:

it's not Tim LeHay (sp) is it? :evilgrin:

[Khephra]

19. Here's the situation

someone is sharing private email that shouldn't be shared (I've already told them to take me out of the loop because of that)

A modern SF writer is part of the exchange.

In private mail, this author has shown himself to totally misunderstand liberalism and Bush.

Since it is private mail that has been shown, I'll NEVER NEVER NEVER give out his name. Stop guessing.

But now I have to figure out if I mis-read all his past work.

[Snow]

20. Tell you what - go read some Sherry Tepper....

"Beauty" or "Gate to Women's Country"
or read some David Brin.
or Kim Stanley Gardner

These are all excellent writers who share our political philosophy in general terms, and you'll feel better. Start with the Tepper. She's a nice lady.

[geniph]

30. I just hope it's not Greg Bear

it would disillusion the hell out of me to find that out about him. I really admire him, he's probably my current favorite among living authors.

[chookie]

21. It can be tough

I have had experiences with friends who have been lured to the Dark Side.

It kind of depends. One was so nuts that I cut off contact with him completely (he has since gotten burned BIG TIME by the policies of the Bush administration and has now revised his opinion of things, so now we are friends again, and have very interesting discussions).

Another very dear friend fell into Darkness. I love him dearly, so I strenuously avoid all discussion of politics and current events. When he brings them up, I make diplomatic comments like "Yes, it's true the country is very polarized and people on both sides have strong emotions about things." I *think* he is too far gone for an intelligent discussion, but what I may say to him at some point is -- look dear, we've been friends for a long time; if *we* can't talk about these matters in a reasonable matter, it indeed bodes very ill for our nation.

Some people, in Darkness, who I am chummy with, I can joke with, and openly ridicule their beliefs in a humorous fashion, which tends to shut them up, and with no long-lasting ill effects.

Some people (none of which are friends of mine, but just acquaintences) are so barking mad that -- depending on the occasion, I just ignore them. I was at a funeral for someone I loved recently, at which some religious wacko went on and on and on -- not because she was being prompted to do so, or that it was appropriate at all -- about how great Bush is, and how -- happily!-- the world was going to end soon, anyway. I just listened, and pretended to be an anthropologist doing field research of the Wacko Tribe, because if I would have responded to this bitch in any fashion, it would have been an insult to the occasion -- which is why she probably rattled on like she did -- because she knew she had a captive audience, and could depend on us to be "decent" and let her rant on.

I am sure this is a problem for a lot of people in one way or another.

The country is polarized! And no one is giving an inch -- you *can't* these days, because the rightwing that has hijacked the Republican Party are bent on eliminating a community of diverse ideas -- they demand a monolithic society based on their personal beliefs, and they regard cooperation as weakness.

I don't know what it is going to take to end this confrontation of ideology in the USA. As Al Sharpton has said -- we are in a virtual Civil War.

[Khephra]

24. barking mad

That's how i'd describe them.

[Coventina]

25. a suggestion....for what it is worth....

If the material you saw was "private mail" that was, in a sense, hijacked, and something that should not have been shared, well, maybe you should try to forget about it.

I know that probably sounds kind of stupid, but after all, you are trying to protect the person right now, because of the nature of the information being "unfair."

Obviously, you cannot totally block it out of your mind, and maybe you might want to re-read the works in question, to see if there was something you missed. But otherwise, my advice is to try not to let it trouble you too much.

After all, everyone is a "work in progress". I've held attitudes and beliefs in the past that I am completely and totally ashamed of now. If this person is writing quality works, it is possible that his private correspondance (and some of his beliefs) haven't matched that level of maturity yet.

[Khephra]

27. Well......the closest I'll come to quoting the guy is that he uses

terms like "ALL liberals".

Now, I'm understanding of (REAL) conservatives. (Real) conservatives have some good points.

But then you get to people who go "Liberals" and "Conservate" and they mean the whole group when they speak. I hate sterotypes of all types.

All "liberals" or "conservatives" is a fiction and anyone who believes that is an idiot.

[Coventina]

34. He certainly sounds like an idiot.

And I have the highest respect for your opinion (as I hope you know)!

I'm sorry I don't have any easy answers for you.
I've been disappointed also, in this sort of situation. My only comfort has been to remember that I was an idiot, also, and with love and patience and edumacation, gradually smartened up.

[dorktv]

23. it was Al Franken! hee hee.

Seriously, it is hard...just take a deep breath and remember...we are all human.

[Lisa]

26. well, as my mom says -- "just be happy you don't have to live with them"

It would be great if the people we admire were all-round perfect, but unfortunately it just ain't so. For example, I have met plenty of scientists whose work I really admired, but who turned out to be super-aggressive, snarky, impatient, obnoxious types.

I was on the verge of giving up and just thinking, "maybe that's WHY they're such top-notch researchers" when I met a couple of people (Lisa Graumlich and Ed Johnson) who were very nice, and totally humble. And then I realized that it's possible to do good work and be a pretty cool person at the same time (and not get swollen-headed about it).

I imagine it's probably similar with artists, writers, doctors, and anybody else ... some really nasty pieces of work, and plenty of normal human types who were just having a bad day when you met them. I have been on book tours and really they don't put a writer in a receptive mood to hobnob with fans, so I tend to cut celebrities a bit of slack based on my own observations! Sometimes they can be really lonely people, because they can never be sure whether folks are being nice to them for their own sake, or for ulterior motives. It can make people really paranoid and arrogant.

And there will also be some terrific people who are just a joy to meet. Those are the ones who make it all worthwhile. I have exchanged letters with an author whom I really admired when I was growing up (Carol Kendall in Lawrence, Kansas) -- and this year, when she found out I had finally gotten my degree, she sent a wonderful handmade Congratulations! card. I burst into tears when I got it, I was so amazed.

You can still like to read someone's work even if you had a bad experience ... although you may notice, from now on, that the characterizations may have a rather nasty edge to them that you didn't see before, or that you aren't entirely satisfied with the way in which s/he has chosen to tell the story ...

[kodi]

29. sell their bodies for medical experimentation.

i have few friends left, but have made a pretty sum on the deal

[bicentennial_baby]

31. I think I know who you're talking about

from one of your posts upthread...I was suprised and greatly disappointed when I realized what a fuckwit he is. I have'nt picked up one of his books since. Needless to say, I feel your pain Kheph.

[Spider Jerusalem]

32. My guess is...

that it's someone like Orson Scott Card (who I already knew was conservative), or maybe Neal Stephenson (Cryptonomicon had a strong libertarian bent). Whoever it is, whatever is in the author's work that caused you to like it is still there. Many talented creative individuals are utter assholes in person, but this doesn't change the fact that they are talented artists. The work either stands on its own, or it doesn't...the author's personality and politics don't enter into the equation.

[TrogL]

33. Lemme guess

Orson Scott Card?

[Khephra]

38. Ok...this is the only person... and the only clues I'll give

I'll say it isn't: Orson Scott Card.

He's also only been on the "scene" since the 80's

And he's not a cyberpunk.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

35. Chalk it up to experience...

Great personality doesn't necessarily accompany great talent.

Beyond that, I firmly believe that behind every asshole is a story that explains why they are the way they are. If you can get beyond your disappointment to understand the "why", it often proves to be enlightening.

This requires a lot of energy, though...
It may not be worthwhile for you.

[July]

36. ah, The Goose and the Pate Conundrum

That's "pah-tay", don't know how to get those accents in my posts.

My spouse's thesis adviser gave us this concept. Many, many people out there produce good pate, though they are geese. This is, of course, a matter of opinion, but some examples:

O.J. Simpson: good football pate, serious double-murdering goose.

Woody Allen: good movie pate, serious ??? (perv?) dorky goose.

Poses a problem for most of us: if we like the pate, we want to like the goose.

[July]

37. Followup

Replying to myself, to pose a question.

Still trying to come up with a goose/pate type of metaphor for the opposite phenomenon, i.e., good person, bad product (we all know them).