Sick of red states being trashed?

[bertha katzenengel]

So am I.

Mrs. V. and most of her family is from or still lives in Tennessee. Her mother was born in Georgia; so was, in case you've forgotten, Jimmy Carter. My father, my uncle and their parents were born in Oklahoma; Mrs. V. and I both have friends who live there. My mother spent most of her childhood in Kansas. Harry Truman: Missouri.

Americans live in those states and in every other state in the union. Fellow human beings, just like you and me. They have faults, just like you and me. They love and they hurt . . . on and on and on I could go.

[SixShooter]

1. Amen

And although I do sometimes envy some of you who live in more...er..."hospitable" political climates...I still love the South with all my heart, red or not!

[Cannikin]

2. I hate living in Arkansas, and will leave at the earliest possible time

[newsguyatl]

8. come to atlanta

:D

[Cannikin]

11. You're so bad......but I like it.

[sasquatch]

55. The only problem with Atlanta is that its in Georgia

:D

[newsguyatl]

56. this is true

[BooScout]

80. Atlanta is surrounded....

....by Red..........Rednecks and Repukes. Unless you live inside the Perimeter forget it(and I am a native). We are getting out completely. It's off to the UK for us in a few months.....no more red and blue states. Yay!

[Jack_Dawson]

3. Mad Props to DUers stuck in Red States

There's no way I could live amongst such ignorance. :beer:

[bertha katzenengel]

6. I give up.

[misanthrope]

21. Thanks...

...it's mighty difficult and a source of constant consternation and frustration. I feel like I'm from a whole 'nother universe.

The few progressives I know of here share the same sentiment, strangers in a strange land.

[Maddy McCall]

22. At least WE don't have YOUR governor.

[JitterbugPerfume]

30. We are not all ignorant dolts

out here in so called "red state"land

[Jack_Dawson]

50. I didn't say you were, did I?

But you are in the minority, and for that you have my sympathy.

[HeeBGBz]

49. I find it really annoying when people make assumptions

Especially considering the illegal vote tampering, who the fuck is to say what state is really red. They could all be blue for all we know.

Instead we perpetuate the divisiveness.

[Jack_Dawson]

51. Get over it

Georgia is not a blue state. C'mon now.

But the vote tampering issue is a troubling one. And of course the dems have no backbone on this issue so it's gonna keep happening. WTF to do about it? When Hillary gets screwed, I think we'll finally hear about it.

[HeeBGBz]

71. "Get over it" How I love that phrase.

You really sound blueish.

[noahmijo]

4. Well I am going to bash MY red state

It just turned me red via some bad sunburn.

I hate Arizona

[bertha katzenengel]

5. Three words: Aloe Vera Gel.

It'll keep you cool. Sticky, but cool. :hi:

[Patiod]

87. Ah, Arizona, where people carry in bars and banks!

Never met such militant gun fanatics (and I live in a state where the first day of Deer Hunting Season and Turkey Hunting Season are practically state holidays - but we don't wear guns to social events...)

[ikojo]

7. I live in St Louis....I do not say I live in Missouri

although I clearly do reside in the state of Missouri. I am as far south as I ever want to live.

I grew up in Illinois and if the town I grew up in wasn't SO conservative I'd have never left. I ended up in St Louis because I had a couple of friends down here that I met while attending sci fi conventions. I REALLY wanted to escape central Illinois!

[deadparrot]

20. Also St. Louis...

which is, really, not so bad. It's a (very) blue city in a red state. :)

[ikojo]

48. The city is blue as was the county in the last

election. The county, however, is becoming increasingly red. James (no)Talent is from wealthy West County (Chesterfield) and is one of the Senators for MO. I hope the Dems mount a serious campaign against him.

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. Same is true of Kansas City

and Columbia, MO

and Lawrence, KS

[sasquatch]

9. Nope

Sorry if you don't like it but I stopped feeling sympathy after November 3rd, 2004. Try in 2008.

[bertha katzenengel]

13. And if you took up arms in 1861, which would you have worn?

The homespun, or the blue?

BTW, this is a rhetorical question.

[sasquatch]

17. The Blue and I would've burned every southern city bigger than my hometown

My hometown is about 5,000 population by the way. And I would've told them not to take them back after the war, place trade embargos on the CSA, keep them from expanding and execute all southern pow's for treason. Sorry if this offends you but I don't consider people who killed more Americans than anyone else in any other war as American.

[bertha katzenengel]

32. You're sorry if it offends me?

Why? It's your opinion.

I'm not asking not to be offended; I'm stating my opinion. I wish others would think like I do, of course; it's human nature. But that many don't really isn't any skin off my nose. If we could accept our differences we'd all be better off, no?

You'd "execute all southern pow's for treason" -- how can they have committed treason when they were fighting for independence? The British would've done the same to colonist POWs, I imagine, if they'd won that war.

[sasquatch]

44. Do you know anyone that's proud they're family fought for the Germans in-

WWII? Know you don't, I met a women that's grandfather fought for the Nazi's in the eastern front in WWII and it's a dirty family secret that he and they are ashamed of. Yet everytime I drive through the south I see one of those crackerass bumper sticker that says "I'm the proud descendent of a confederate soldier" and I want to beat the fuck out of the guy. And everywhere I go in this country these knuckledragging morons with confederate battle flags on their cars, houses and on their propoerty and it drives me up the fucking wall.
:rant:
Rant over, but I still hate the south.

[DrGonzoLives]

82. So you'd be a war criminal. Nice.

n/t

[Left Is Write]

14. You know, many of your fellow DUers live in red states.

Many of us tried. We really tried.

[bertha katzenengel]

16. Evidently that's not good enough.

The state I live in went to Kerry by a narrow margin of 4%. It seems that for some DUers, just as for many GOPers, there is no gray area -- or should I say, no purple.

[HeeBGBz]

76. I saw Missouri turn blue briefly right around 10 or so

Soon after the reporters were getting funny looks and one commented on the odd change in direction of the vote. I remember she was female and she had a sick look on her face.

About that time, I started to get a sick look on mine.

I wish I had taped it. I will next time.

[qnr]

19. And lots of nice, union-supporting Americans produce H2s, that doesn't

mean that they are above being commented upon.

[Left Is Write]

28. But the trashing of the so-called red states often involves

blanket insults of the people who live there or consider those places home. When that happens, it's sometimes fellow DUers getting insulted, people who are not to blame for the rest of the state's politics. People who may have worked very hard to change that state's politics.

ETA: I don't care if people criticize the state of Idaho electing such senators as Larry Craig and Mike Crapo, but I do take exception to people characterizing the entire state as redneck, warmongering skinheads (for example).

[qnr]

34. Don't see the difference. Granted, people don't generally insult the

people in the plants, dealerships, or whatever, however they are involved with the production and distribution of the vehicle, so you are insulting their efforts. Same thing with the states, whether people voted Green, Libertarian, Democratic, Republican or whatever, the product was a red state. I personally disagree with the insulting of red states, but in my opinion, people are insulting the product, not specific individuals, just the fact that a plurality of the the individuals produced the product.

Edit: s/, a plurality/just the fact that a plurality/

[Left Is Write]

37. When the state of Idaho is dismissed as a bunch of gun-toting

redneck idiots, then *I* am being dismissed as such as well.

As I said, be critical of the state's politics as a whole, but don't dismiss everyone who lives here. It's hard enough living in a conservative enclave without feeling a constant need to defend oneself.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Left Is Write]

43. I'd love to, but it's not quite that simple.

We moved here in 2000 when my husband's company offered him a proposition: move and get a promotion and raise, or don't move and be out of work when the Minneapolis plant closes. In retrospect, I wish we'd taken our chances on finding a new job in Minneapolis, but we didn't have a crystal ball.

His division was sold and dissolved less than a year after we got here. We didn't hightail it back home then because I was pregnant, we had just purchased a home, and then the 9/11 attacks happened. We felt somewhat trapped.

Today, my husband has a thriving career with a good company. He's also back in school. He is always looking out for opportunities in Minnesota, and when the right one comes along, we'll jump on it.

[qnr]

40. Again, just my opinion, but I'd feel pretty foolish getting drawn into

that. I know for a fact that everyone is an individual - including people who believe in things that are diametrically opposed to what I believe in. I'm not the state, they're not the state. Anyone that wants to make a blanket statement is welcome to do so, but I'm certainly not going to waste my time worrying about it.

[Left Is Write]

41. And I know that you wouldn't make those blanket insults either.

It's not really you I'm complaining to.

[qnr]

42. OK :) I do understand what people are saying, just don't think it's

something to get particularly riled up about. Now tornadoes and scorpions, I'll insult states like crazy if they have them.

[sasquatch]

23. Many sympathies to those people

My great grandfather had to escape Hitler's Germany, leaving his homeland and family behind, perhaps red state DUers should do the same, hell move up here with me, I'll keep you company.

[Droopy]

25. Dude, you live in a red state.

[sasquatch]

31. No I live in a purple state

We voted for Kerry but they screwed us for Bush. I blame the DLC democrats for all the problems we have in Ohio today.

[comsymp]

85. Umm, we ALL live in Purple States

[Maddy McCall]

26. Indeed YOU live in a red state.

[sasquatch]

33. See post #31

[Droopy]

10. Good post, bertha

I posted something along the lines of your sentiment here the other night. I think we need to listen to the red staters more and try to get a better understanding of what they want because I think if we were to break it down for them they would see that Bush is not giving them what they want. I think his claimed religiousness gets him a lot of votes in the red states.

[Left Is Write]

12. I live in a red state, but I feel no sense of loyalty to it.

It doesn't feel like "home." It's nice enough here, but I'm always pining for home.

I am from a blue state, raised surrounded by Democrats, and watching the red slowly seeping into my beloved Minnesota is painful. I'd like to get back there and help push back the creeping crud. That the citizens of Minnesota could have elected the likes of Norm Coleman to the United States Senate sickens me.

I do agree, however, that we should not be roundly bashing the red states, especially when the bashing is based on ignorance and stereotypes.

[Zuni]

15. There is more to life than politics

not everyone in red states who isn't well versed in politics or who was fooled into voting agsinst their best intrests is a pyscho, mouth breathing knuckle dragger

A lot of them were fooled by a slick campaign and voted against their best interests.

[Droopy]

18. Amen

[xmas74]

27. Kerry barely campaigned in MO

and I heard many people around here comment on it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. He was here in KC

in August and Edwards was here in September. I can remember many presidential elections when the Dem candidate didn't come to KC at all. This last one was definitely an improvement.

[xmas74]

63. It was but advertising was very low.

We are known as a bell weather state. There should have been more.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. I agree

and I blame that on the local Dem party, not on Kerry.

[xmas74]

67. I do too.

But I used him as an example of what went wrong around here. I could use more local people but no one would recognize their names.

Same w/ Claire-she should have won (and I really suspect that she did-it was very close) but her campaign was just awful.

Give me a campaign. I'd either rock their socks off or scare the crap out of everyone.

[demnan]

24. I think we are talking about two different issues here

Do we love the people we love who live in red states? Of course we do. Do I live in a red state - and have all my life - yes I do. Do we love people who are narrow-minded and work to ruin the lives of those who live a different life, no, I don't.

I usually visit my Mom on Sundays she's in her eighties now but sold real estate in the 60's and 70's. - and this Sunday she was telling me about a house she sold to a gay man who lived with another man. The company who did the financing for their mortgages didn't want to finance this man, even though he was a veteran, made a good living as a department store front window designer and had a veteran's loan qualification. They sold the loan (and ate up a point) because they didn't want to finance this man's home.

My mother was very friendly with this man and she enjoyed working with him and remembered selling the house to him, even 30 years later (now). He even invited her back to see how he did the improvements on the house and see his beautiful Christmas tree decorations.

Today a gay couple or a gay person doesn't have the stigma they had so many years ago. I hope this is also true in the true "red areas" as I live in a fairly blue area in a red state. Just thought I'd share.

[MrScorpio]

29. I've adopted a red state as my home

I was born in a blue one

I'm feeling ya on this

[Kathleen04]

35. And simply as a practical matter..

alienating VOTERS is not a winning strategy.

[xmas74]

36. I don't like being trashed

but I do think that my state needs a kick in the ass. Harry is rolling over in his grave as we speak-I truly believe that. I am less than an hour from the Truman Library and all I see is * signs everywhere. We have let ourselves go.
We were once the "Show-Me State". We wanted proof of a person's worth, of their values. Not anymore. Most of our citizens fell for a slick ad and some trash talk. These same citizens would never allow that kind of disrespect to be shown to anyone in their own homes.
I could easily write an entire essay about this subject but I need to stop before I bore everyone. I will say this: the trash talk does not work. We need more money, more volunteers, more education to turn this state back. Our new Repub governor has a popularity rating of less than 30% right now (and for those of you who don't know-he's the son of Roy Blunt). We have two well known military bases in this state. Our citizens are tired of watching our jobs leave this state. They are tired of watching the less fortunate be punished. They are tired of sending their sons and daughters off to pay the ultimate price for this country.
If we stop talking trash and begin to empathize we will win this country back. We have to give our support to all, not just to those that immediately agreed w/ us. Otherwise, we are no better than the people that we rail against.

[Redstone]

38. It's not the red states themselves we despise,

it's the large percentage of their populations who are ignorant goobers and act, talk, and vote that way...

Subtract them, and we'd be fine with those states.

Redstone

[LastKnight]

45. what hurts more is seeing my home trashed by the republicans who run it.

south dakota kicked out its 800 pound gorilla it had in the senate because he was a democrat... we lost a good majority of our representation and i fear we will lose the remainder of our meaningful power in the senate when Johnson goes up for election. and it hurts to see how my state is degrading around me. i mean we are having a drinking water problem around here because we kicked out the senator who had a plan for that stuff... daschle was gonna fix stuff, but apparently drinking water in Southeast South dakota isnt important...

Tim Johnson - by the way is the only member of the senate to have family in the military... of which is stationed in baghdad... has no bearing on my post, just thought id throw it in.

-LK

[Left Is Write]

47. That's my fear for Minnesota as well.

Mark Dayton's seat will be up for grabs next year, and I'm so afraid they'll put a Republican in it.

[HeeBGBz]

46. Currently in Missouri, next month Mississippi

I would have to say yes.

I find good with the bad. You can't write off whole states and quadrants of the country. Not if you want to grow in number and defeat the true enemy.

[greatauntoftriplets]

52. I am a blue stater (Illinois)

but my :loveya: is a red stater (Oklahoma).

To me, bashing a red state would be like bashing him. And I should mention that he is a left winger like me.

The current political climate is so damn difficult for him, far more frustrating for him than for me...because I am surrounded by mostly like-minded people, while he is not.

[sasquatch]

53. Why don't you bring your love to Illinois?

:shrug:

[greatauntoftriplets]

54. His job. His elderly father.

I stay in Illinois because of my elderly mother. His job is far more important than mine, because he can make a difference for the people of his state. And is trying to do so.

[NawlinsNed]

57. All it means is that...

... people can be an ignorant, mean spirted, assholes regardless of your political affiliation.

And for those who denigrate southerners time and time again, I deem them lower than some of the racists we have to deal with down here, because for all of their so-called intelligence and education, they should fucking know better.

[Droopy]

58. Welcome to DU, NawlinsNed

You bring up a good point.

[Left Is Write]

62. Welcome to DU!

[lpbk2713]

64. Welcome to DU Ned.

Nice to have you here.

[HeeBGBz]

72. Rock on, Nawlins!

Welcome to DU from a soon-to-be neighbor. Unless of course, you no longer live there. In that case, I would merely be an annoyance.

[sasquatch]

73. So I should feel sorry for people who try to force me into Fascism?

Enlighten me please.

[ernstbass]

91. I love your post and welcome to DU

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Just typed a response to a KS basher on another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1536169&mesg_id=1543664

[MrSlayer]

66. I think people take it too personally.

When people bash Red States they are really only bashing the majority red voters and politicians in those states. You and the other good Democrats who happen to live in these areas obviously do not apply. Don't take it so personally.

[qnr]

68. I'm generally a blue-stater, and when people discuss the blue states,

I don't feel that they're claiming I, personally, made it blue.

Edit: I visit boards with many more conservative viewpoints - being from a blue state doesn't necessarily mean you're liked :)

[MrSlayer]

69. Right.

It just means more people are blue in that state than red. If it wasn't for Philly and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania would be a red state. In fact on the State level it is. Getting offended by this most basic generalization is kind of silly.

[Trajan]

70. I defend our southern liberal friends every opportunity I have ...

But the term 'red states' is broad and all encompassing ...

WHY is it that you reject criticism of 'red states' ? .. do you take it personally ? .. why ? ... it is the GOVERNMENTS, and the people who support their regressive policies that are the target of that criticism, not YOU personally ...

It is easy to misconstrue statements that are targetting entire states but the intent is to critique the POLICIES, and those who support them: not EVERYONE who lives there ...

Methinks thou dost protest too much ....

[HeeBGBz]

74. Because you don't hear a lot of blue state bashing

All the rags on the south all sound the same "Blah, blah, blah, all those damn Bush-votin, spam-suckin trailer, tents and Trent Lott hair-wearin, Walmart-shopping, inbred inhabitants of the south, have a Nascar-nice day."

Assholes are everywhere. It's not just a red state thing.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

77. I've noticed alot of the remarks about red states reek of classism. (nt)

[BiggJawn]

75. I'm immune to it anymore.

If they can't come up with some compassion and pity for those of us who actually have to LIVE amongst the Ditto-Monkeys....

[tjwmason]

78. Good post

Looking from the outside, I am appalled by the attitude of supposed progressives towards great swathes of the country.

I've just taken a quick look at the electoral map, Georgia and the two Carolinas (supposed bastions of red-statery) vote republican by under 60% - even Texas only gave it 61% and Utah 72% (is there any state with a higher vote than that?). This means that in the reddest of red-states a group of 5 random people will include a Kerry voter.

But even this is not the point, these are still people, these are still your compatriots. People vote in various ways for various reasons - now they are being de-humanised because of politics.

Oh, and without wishing to be utterly venial - if you take even a moderately good-looking guy and have him speak to me in a southern accent, then I'll do just about anything he asks. :swoon:

[baldguy]

79. As long as they vote Republican...

Red states deserve to be trashed.

[Burma Jones]

81. I've lived in Red States and Blue States

Red: Texas, Indiana, Virginia, North Carolina, Louisiana

Blue: Illinois, Maryland, New York, Massachusettes


In Texas, I lived in Houston among many Democrats
I was born in Gary, Indiana - very Democratic
I lived in Fairfax County VA - a pretty even split, tended to vote Democratic locally and barely Republican in National elections
I lived in the "People's Republic of Chapel Hill" in North Carolina
Of course, when I was a kid, we lived in Metarie, LA - home to David Duke - this was the worst place I have ever lived - New Orleans on the other hand, is great.


In Illinois, I lived on the prarie, very Republican territory
In Maryland, I live in Montgomery County - exceptionally Blue
In New York, I lived in northern Westchester - Republicans to Congress, anti-Bush though, but still Republican - New York Republican, which is kind of like a Virginia Democrat..
In Massachusettes, I lived in Plymouth and I didn't stay long enough to get an idea of their voting habits.


Soooooo - There are progressives everywhere.......

[Shell Beau]

83. I live in Mississippi and love it.

I was reminded recently how much I love it when I went to D.C. Just not my kind of city. I live at a slower pace. Everyone was always in such a rush! I enjoyed it, but I love my red state. I wish it weren't red, but I still love where I live and I don't define it by some of the people that live here!

[oldcoot]

84. No, and I live in a Red State

The majority of people living in my state, Nevada, decided to help Bush return to the White House after he lied to us about Yucca Mountain. This really was not a smart thing to do.

[Blue Diadem]

86. Bertha, is it ok if I trash my own state?

Currently Ohio quite frankly sucks. No, I am not saying every person in the state, just the corrupt Greedy Old Pricks..

[ronnykmarshall]

88. There are no red/blue states.

It's all purple!!

[Patiod]

89. I live in blue area in blue state that has the ickiest red Senator

well, until '06, that is.

The people in the hinterlands here pro-Bush all the way.

Except maybe MA and NY, no one lives in a true "blue" state - we all have fundies and other wingers in our hinterlands - we're ALL dealing with that.

And no, we can't afford to alienate voters.

[redqueen]

90. Yeah.

As comsymp said, we're all in purple states. Trashing huge groups of people which you KNOW are not homogenous is just stupid.

It's stupid because when you make those statements you pretty much KNOW you will unfairly insult someone you shouldn't have included in the group to begin with. I know (hope?) that the exclusion of those of us working hard to turn these red states blue is implied, but... don't we all have enough experience with this to know that the implication just isn't enough?

Do us all a favor, when doing your trash talking... add "bush-voting" as an adjective to whatever group you're trashing. That way you ensure you're not insulting someone you really don't mean to. It's not too much to ask, is it? Clear communication?