Communism

[Sherwood]

Why is there so much hate for the word 'communism' here? Honestly, I don't think it sounds like such a bad idea. The people own the factories and control the government... what's not to like? I'd join the Communist Party, but they seem overly obsessed with Soviet-style communism. I just wish more stupid Americans would see that this is the way to achieve true equality.

[LoZoccolo]

1. Because it's practically impossible.

The amount of stuff that needs to be coordinated beforehand, even before a revolution, almost inevitably leads to deadly squabbles over the direction of things. Throw in the fact that a polarizing situation develops when everyone is trying to prove their loyalty thinking that everyone else is in agreement with extreme courses of action and you get a train wreck. It's irresponsible to even try it when we've seen what happens not only in the Soviet Union as you acknowledge, but everywhere it's been tried.

[Sherwood]

2. Question...

Where does Socialism end and Communism begin? It seems that a gradual process is the best way to work towards at least a semi-comminist state, as is seem in Sweden. Where is the line drawn between the two styles of government?

[zann725]

4. Where does Democracy end, and Capitalism/Pluralism begin?

There is always a line "drawn" linguistically between what IS intended idealistically, and what materializes with human flaws, reality and power greed thrown in...no matter what the Political ideal. Particularly "Democracy"...as we're all suddenly becoming aware.

Truth is, ALL "plans" fall short of their goal, but that should not deter people from reaching for "more" to better the human condition via the political realm.

[LoZoccolo]

6. I'd always been taught it's the nature of the revolution.

Communism usually advocates an overthrow of the government, usually by a vanguard party put in charge of creating a new society and catastrophic change, while socialism is gradual. I would think the gradual nature of socialism would carry with it an assumption that it doesn't necessarily need to be as encompassing as communism.

But back to what I was originally saying, you can kind of see how doomed communism is just by looking at communists. I know of four large communist groups already - the International Socialist Organization, Communist Party USA, the Revolutionary Communist Party, and the Sparticans. These people are fighting about the direction of things already, and it's understandable when you consider the number of decisions about their version of a communist state have to be made beforehand, and the magnitude of them, and the fact that each side feels that their direction is so important that it's OK to do everything up to and including killing each other over it (after all, they're already comfortable with that when they decide a violent revolution is the only way things will change - I should note that the Communist Party USA does not believe that a violent revolution is the only necessary path to communism though). Part of the problem with demanding a quick Utopia is that you've arrived at the conclusion that it's immensely important, and will go to drastic lengths to achieve it. People look at this idea of an idealized society and think that'd be nice, but don't really look at the dynamics which would have to be involved in creating it, and whether or not those dynamics would ultimately crushing the chances that it would be achieved.

[Sherwood]

8. So is the end point of socialism

and communism the same, but just the means of getting there diferent? Again, communism isn't bad in itself, but the path there can just be more unstable. Sometimes I think, though, that great risks must be taken to rid the nation of Bushler and its ilk. We have a choice: the instability of communism of the fascism we have going now. It's like the Spanish Civil War all over again - what side should we be on? It seems like many Democrats - especially the DLC et al - are just feeding into the Chimp's plans.

[LoZoccolo]

10. No.

Socialism is ongoing and adaptive and not all-encompassing (the example I think you brought up about Northern European socialist countries - they still have large corporations and no intentions of getting rid of them), but communism is totalitarian for a time with the intent of eventually creating an anarchistic society in some theories (never happened, though).

With Bush*'s approval at the low rate it is, I think it's an example of democracy eventually working things out, and I still think our basic system is really the only one that can accomplish things without risk of it running away into something weird.

[rwenos]

3. A Professor Once Said Marx was

". . . radically optimistic about the rationality of human beings."

That's as fair a criticism as any. No one wants to be that analytical ALL the time.

Or, as I put it to my college girlfriend: "Marxists never have any FUN."

[zann725]

5. Nor do any Repugs or Fundies!

n/t

[LoZoccolo]

7. Marxists never have any fun.

http://www.larryflynt.com/notebook.php?id=81
http://www.larryflynt.com/notebook.php?id=80

This is one of my favorite critiques of the radical left. I know it's on Larry Flynt's web site, but don't worry, there's no porn on it.

[StopTheMorans]

9. it is an extremely implausible philosophy just as libertarianism is.

hey assholes, try taking "human nature" into account the next time you come up with some ridiculous political philosophy :eyes:

[youspeakmylanguage]

11. You see, Sherwood...

We don't like the word "Communist" here, as you put it, because we aren't Communists and we don't associate with Communists. Communism is a system of government that might sound dandy to some but has failed miserably when implemented.

There may be a small handful of professed communists here at DU, but I've never met any of them. Most of us aren't really socialists, either. But the other side loves to associate those that advocate true accountability, social justice, and equal rights for all citizens with Communism. It makes things easier just to vilify your opponents instead of engaging them in honest debate.

If you're looking for a Communist message board, check out the websites of some prominent American Communist groups. You'll have to look elsewhere for the links.

Peace!

[Shell Beau]

12. Huh?

:shrug: I don't care for communism because it doesn't work. I like being free to own my own property.

[Deja Q]

13. And free for the plutocrats to come and take it away.

(and before you ask, and for one thing, they're bulldozing the laws that protect us...)

[Shell Beau]

14. Well I just don't think communism works.

It is not what this country was intended to be and I hope it never goes in that direction.