Settle It Once And For All --- Mac's or PC's ???

[THUNDER HANDS]

Poll question: Settle It Once And For All --- Mac's or PC's ???

I use a PC at home, but I used to use a Mac at school and I never had any problems with either.

To me, it's a little harder to find stuff that's Mac compatable, but it's not impossible.

Overall I'd say they are about equal, but then again, I'm no computer "expert" so my opinion is virtually meaningless.

What say you, oh DU compu-geeks?

[Shrek]

1. Limbaugh loves Mac

What else needs to be said?

[HuckleB]

7. And Gates loves Bush,

er he was very happy to see Bush win and give in on the monopoly lawsuit.

This isn't about politics.

[Shrek]

11. That wasn't the point

It's not about politics.

Many here have noted that Limbaugh is an idiot. He's also an admitted drug abuser, so by definition he lacks good judgment and makes poor choices.

I haven't noticed anyone ascribing those attributes to Gates.

[HuckleB]

13. OK, then.

What does W use? Rumsfeld? I'm betting they're in the PC camp. So there. It's two dummies against your one!

Mac's rule!

;)

[Shrek]

16. Well, PCs may be a bit much.

I'm guessing they use something else.

[HuckleB]

19. Ah, yes. You are quite right.

:)

[paradisiac]

23. I read somewhere

that Bush* used/uses a mac but I don't know fer sure if it's true. Actually I doubt he really knows much about computers or what the diff is between mac and Wintel, he doesn't seem like a very technically oriented guy.

"One of the interesting initiatives we've taken in Washington, D.C., is we've got these vampire-busting devices. A vampire is a -- a cell deal you can plug in the wall to charge your cell phone."
-- George W. Bush, Denver, Colorado, August 14, 2001, quoted from Jacob Weinberg, "The Complete Bushisms"

[HuckleB]

25. Now, now.

This is a serious discussion. No hearsay allowed!

;)

[paradisiac]

33. seriously,

I just Googled and found the article I was thinking of...

Limbaugh is a well-known Apple fan and die-hard Mac user. Ditto for George W. Bush and Bill Clinton...

http://www.macobserver.com/editorial/2002/01/16.1.shtml

[HuckleB]

35. Clinton, too!

Hmm. Though it is hard to picture W being a fan of anything.

[emulatorloo]

44. Princess Di, Anne Richards, Bob Dole for what it is worth

http://entropy.freeservers.com/macuser.html

[emulatorloo]

45. My guess is that his preferred computer is an ATM n/t

[Qutzupalotl]

17. Gore likes Mac.

Even before he got a spot on Apple's board.

[Iris]

26. yes, but he abhors their "elitist" marketing practices.

[HuckleB]

27. Does that translate to...

they won't sponsor his show?

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

29. I heard that Limbaugh has practically begged them to let him be a

spokesman on the air, saying that he could bring them his followers, but obviously they didn't want him, even before the drug revelation. They must feel that they would not like to be associated with such an ignorant person.

[HuckleB]

32. I suspect they know that Dittoheads...

are antithetical to much of their customer base. They wouldn't want to risk losing loyal customers for the thin chance of gaining a few customers who are more likely to only purchase low-end, low-profit products.

[LynneSin]

2. Um, you forgot Linux

:shrug:

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. so?

I've never even SEEN someone using a Linux system? Is it popular, or is it something only people on the fringe use?

[xJlM]

12. You haven't looked far, have you?

There's quite a few of us posting on DU who use primarily Linux. It's getting more popular all the time, since folks want to use their minds instead of accepting what Microsuck will feed them.

[VelmaD]

3. Why oh why...

did you have to start this pointless flamefest again. :eyes:

I hope everybody bought flame-retardent Halloween costumes. :-)

[ikojo]

4. Allow me to be the first to post to this lovely thread....

I LOVE my Mac.

I switched from Windows to Mac in June 2003.

What I like about the Mac is that for what I want to do, it is much easier on a Mac.

My iPod works better on a Mac than on my old Windows machine.

CD and DVD work is FAR easier on a Mac than on a Windows machine.

Combined with Earthlink pop up blocker and the pop up blocker on Safari I have seen very few pop ups since June! Wooo hoooo!!!

No, William Pitt does NOT rule...especially when it comes to his choice of Operating Systems!

[Brucey]

5. Mac people are like Clark people,

they get angry if anyone disses their obsession. I like Macs; they work great when I want to do art stuff. I also use PC, and it is fine, though not as aesthetically pleasing. I voted for grumpy.

[HuckleB]

8. I'm sticking with Mac.

But I won't dis those who prefer other systems.

Just got my OSX Panther update for my old iMac. It's time to sync the whole of my computing systems. Woo Hoo!

[MadHound]

9. An Apple a day keeps the virus away

I've had a Mac of one sort or another for ten years now, and have very little downtime. A stable platform that doesn't crash, freeze or lock up more than once a year(if then). I don't have to worry about the virus out there, for they do not work on a Mac platform(in fact its kinda fun to open them up and examine them when they're sent my way). In fact the Mac that I ran before getting my new Emac didn't have a virus program on it for at least seven years. My Emac has Nortons on it, but I rarely run it, and just might take it off at some point.

As far as programs go(or lack of them), you can get every major program for Windows in a Mac flavor. In fact some programs run better on a Mac(Photoshop, Pagemaker and Illustrator come to mind). And while I admit that there are a bunch of games that dont' get ported over to the Mac, all of the trendy big ones do. Plus there are some games made exclusively for the Mac(Ambrosia Software). And if all else fails and there is a PC game you simply must have, well you can get either Virtual PC or an Orange PC card and run a Windows enviroment on your Mac.

The benefits of running an OS made by the machine's manufacturer are tremendous. No third party drivers, not having to make do with a "one size fits all" OS. Besides, having a supercomputer sitting on my desk is just too cool.

[freesqueeze]

31. this is the only arguement for MACs

well maybe along with better quality graphics but MS has stolen every good idea that Apple has come up with (just takes about one year for them to convert).

Do your critical upgrades to the OS and don't use that demon Outlook Express and you'll come out much better with a PC.

[HuckleB]

34. Takes far more than a year...

nevermind the constant fiddling to keep an MS system up to speed. I simply deal with a lot less of that with my Mac. Besides, my five year old Mac still runs circles around most of the two year old PCs that my acquaintances and friends use. Nevermind, that I don't know anyone who still uses a five-year-old PC.

[stanwyck]

37. Please don't send us your PC files

I work at a digital imaging company. Please do not send us your PC files. If you're using a PC, you don't know what you're doing. Graphics people use MACs. Amateurs use PCs. We have to charge you more because your files won't work and our folks will have to spend console time fixing them.

[Deja Q]

51. Okay, when Apple catches on and the virus makers target it...

Mac's been ignored because, quite frankly, mos everybody else has ignored it too.

While Microsoft has helped hackers (which should send them to jail for treating with the enemy), Microsoft's product happens to be used by most. Malcontents are more likely to go after the most amount of people. Not the fringe groups.

Stable? Pre-OS X?! Unless Kinkos made their Macs to be unstable at the stroke of a key, I never found them to be stable nor reliable.

And you can't get the same games for Mac as you can for Windows, don't tell me you can get every major program on a Mac that exists in Windows! Last I recall, Adobe discontinued Mac support for Premiere, it's video editing product...

And running a game in an emulated environment? :silly: :crazy:

Sorry, but in terms of viruses you're being sadly naive. And running games in emulators, that comment made me laugh. :D

[emulatorloo]

73. Apple whipped Adobe's butt w Final Cut, Adobe Premiere couldn't compete

1. It is harder to write virusus for Mac OS X, because you need administrative access to do anythink on OS X. . .it is a UNIX system, and I know you are familiar with Linux, so I know you understand that it is basically more secure than Windows, with its many holes and openings.

So apparently it doesn't require much skill to write and propagate a virus on Windows; witness that poor fat boy in Minnesota. However, it requires, as I understand it, genuine programming chops to write viruses for UNIX based systems.

2. Mac OS really sucked for stability in the OS 7.5 ish period. Basically there were only a couple programmers working on it. All the other resources were devoted to the aborted copeland project. So classic Mac OS just stagnated and was not good. To compress history, Copeland went Bye Bye, More people got put back on Mac OS, Jobs got brought in with Openstep destined to become Mac OS X. OS 8.6 were pretty darn good, certainly as stable as 95 and 98, and certainly easier to live with.

3. See subject heading re Premiere. If you have used Final Cut or Final Cut Express, you know that Premiere can't cut it. Adobe knew it too, they can't compete Final Cut and DVD Studio. The products are just that good. I have had no problems finding applications for Mac OS. . .

4. Games. There aren't many games for Linux either. I guess that Linux worthless too then!

We could always just get an PS2 or Xbox if you insist. I'd rather sit my fat a** on the sofa in front of the big TV anyway. ;-) There are no games for Linux either.

[xJlM]

10. Can't custom-build a Mac

Looking at current prices, I can put together a custom PC (like the one I'm currently working on) - for about $450. That's processor, mother board, a cheap Soundblaster, and an ATI video card, with a Mag monitor. The processor is an AMD AthlonXP 2400 which I have overclocked to 2600 (try that with a Mac!), and it was under a hundred dollars. I put Linux and W98 (for games and DVD) on it for free. Ram might be a little more, but it's cheap right now.

[BigMcLargehuge]

14. custom build?

you mean custom assemble, and yes, there are avenues for people to custom assemble Macs.

[xJlM]

18. And overclock the ram and processor?

And I for one don't want to wait however long it takes the postman to deliver from wherever Mac parts could be shipped from. And even then, how much choice do you actually have? Well, lets see... you can buy from Apple.

No thanks. I'm quite happy "assembling" what I want and then making it work the way I want it to.

[HuckleB]

21. Good for you.

But I've got no need to overclock my Mac.

[MadHound]

22. Actually you can overclock the ram and processor

I was reading articles on how to do this for a Mac eight years ago. But really, why would you want to rev it up when you've already got a supercomputer? And yes, you can custom assemble a Mac if you so wish.

[BigMcLargehuge]

24. xlr8yourmac.com has the articles on overclocking

as well as all sorts of other motherboard modifications, tweaks, and tips.

[xJlM]

28. Interesting...

I've never seen anything quite like that about Apple stuff before. Doesn't change my mind any, though. Apple is overpriced, in my opinion, compared to the things I can buy at the local computer hardware shop. And posting questions to some guy's email isn't quite as mainstream as even the Linux forums that are available.

[HuckleB]

30. It's a value thing.

You feel you get more value for what you pay out of your PCs. I feel I get more value for what I pay out of my Macs.

[BigMcLargehuge]

40. keep in mind that xlr8yourmac is only one place

more active and often less technical forums are numerous:

appleinsider, spymac, macrumors, macOSrumors... they all have technical forums too but aren't dedicated specifically to excellerating macintosh computers.

Lowendmac.com is another tech site that features extensive articles on upgrades and hacks.

[emulatorloo]

42. More good support forums are

dealmac.com, macopz.com

[xJlM]

47. The thing is...

Back when I became interested in computers in 1996, Apple was terribly more expensive and not very well supported. I got my first PC because I was only a poorboy, and needed something I could learn on (a Cyrix with 32m of ram and a two gigabyte hard drive). While I have moved from Cyrix to AMD (another low-priced underdog), I'm not going to drop my support of those who supported me in the early days. So what if Apple is making their computers easier to upgrade than they used to be? So what if you're not confined to a one-button mouse anymore? So what if there are actually some programs now that will run on Apple's OS? They've moved on, and so have I.

[HuckleB]

54. That's one way to look at it.

I am a loyal customer, too. But, I am not fanatical about it. If the competition provides a better product for the value, I'm going to look at it, whether it's a computer, an automobile, a bicycle, a stereo, a coffeemaker, or what have you. Loyalty is worthy, but it shouldn't be a be all end all.

Also, I've upgraded every Mac I've owned since 1989. It hasn't been a problem, and I've spent far less on computers than most people I know during that period of time.

[wryter2000]

15. I like PC's

But I wouldn't say they rule.

[Champion Jack]

20. I have both,...but,

since my Mac just CRASHED...
AAAAUUUGHRRRRHRRRRHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
I guess I'm a little biased today

[elcondor]

36. I like PC's

It's all a matter of preference I suppose. :shrug:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

38. Amigas Rule.

Still. ;-)

[Speck Tater]

39. I prefer PC's but would rather not be stuck with Windoze

Basically you have the choice of a software monopoly with PC's and Windoze, or a hardware monopoly with Mac.

For my money the best combo would be Apple's OSX running on PC hardware. That way I could find hardware upgrades, hard drives, keyboards, sound cards, etc. at just about every store in town.

I'd buy OSX for PC in a split second if Apple ever came to their senses and made it available. If they really want to make money they should abandon the hardware market completely and concentrate on giving the world's gazillion PC users a viable alternative to Windoze. Face it, the differences in the PC and MAC hardware are insignificant.

[geniph]

41. They both have their place

and they both have their adherents, some of whom are fanatical.

You can no more settle the question than you can settle the question of whether Protestantism or Catholicism is "right."

[emulatorloo]

43. I have both, I like my Mac better

Things just work better on my Mac.

I plugged my digital camera in, and iPhoto opens and downloads the photos. I didn't need to download and install a driver like I did on my PC.

I moved my network card to a different PCI slot in my PC, and all hell broke loose. Windows thought it was new hardware, and wanted to install drivers for it, and it became a really big mess.

I moved my audio card to a different PCI slot in my Mac, and it just kept working.

I put a new Mac on my home network and it found all its own network settings and Explorer connected to the internet first time I launched it.

I installed Windows XP on my PC and it couldn't find the internet until I had to tweak the settings by hand.

I could go on, but I bet I am boring you. Use whatever works for you. Macs work best for me, and Windows eats up more of my time.

[Frangible]

46. I'm a PC fan personally

But the the new Mac OS is damn good and the hardware kicks ass. I think you wouldn't go wrong with either. Just make sure the Mac has the applications you want to run.

[Liberal Veteran]

48. A Custom Made Computer for Bush*

[Deja Q]

49. Both have their good and bad points, but freedom won me over:

I prefer the freedom that comes with PCs:

Freedom of hardware design.

Freedom of operating system choice, even with Microsoft's increasingly fascist tactics (not that they never were fascist before, but they're getting far worse these days.)

Freedom from ridiculously high prices for hardware that has a top-rate CPU yet mediocre-everythingelse.

What more can be said? :shrug:

Indeed, Apple has pissed on clone developers several times before shutting them out totally (big mistake). And it's a pity there's no company to make a PowerPC G5 clone CPU. I mean, the AMD Athlon XP is better than the Pentium IV and costs a helluva lot less, so where's the competition within Apple's closed domain? Getting people to buy their machines solely because of the color of the case insulted their intelligence too... I recall the original 5 fruity flavors, go and buy them all! :puke:

[HuckleB]

53. Actually...

I'd argue the opposite stance. I'm much more free with my Mac. I can interface with everything else much easier. Now that's freedom. I know that I bitch about my computer's problems, glitches, and need for tweaking and additional security a lot less than anyone I know with a PC. Now THAT is true freedom!

[emulatorloo]

55. Please compare name brand to name brand w you compare prices

Configure a Dell as close as you can to the Dual G5, the prices are very close. In Apple's favor last time I looked. Likewise the highend laptops.

You are free to install several flavors of Linux on your Mac.

You are free to install off the shelf HDs, CDRWs, DVDRWs, etc etc etc

The clone issue is a complicated one; the time to do it was early, and Steve Jobs wasn't with the company when the Powers-That-Were (JL Gassee (sp), etc) decided to not license (sp probably) Mac OS.

I don't care what color my mac is; my brother-in-law loved his grape iMac. But what do you make of the crazy PC windowed neon light fans case craze? Does that make you puke too?

Hypno, I am really glad that yr PC works for you, it is terrific. I know a lot of people who are happy w Windows and Linux on their PCs. That's great and I say use what works for you. I use both, but as long as the mac just works w minimum muss and fuss, I'll going to prefer my Mac to my PC.

[DS1]

50. The problem with this debate is....

Both sides want the other to forget all the previous operating system, hell this is openly acknowledged. We all know that anything before 2000/XP was garbage, and Mac G3s running OS9 were equally crap.

XP and OSX are, IMHO, basically on par with each other, of course with different approaches.

[HuckleB]

52. Well,

that would be your opinion. But I haven't forgotten, and I'd take OS9 over XP any ol' day. And I don't think it's fair to XP to even mention OSX. There's just no real comparison in terms of natural feel and ability to get around fast.

[emulatorloo]

56. Fortunately We Live in The Present

so maybe the past OSs being forgotton isn't big problem for this debate.

(But I too prefer OS 9 to XP. Although I do like XP better than 98/2000. And 9 worked quite well on my G3 and G4.)

I don't agree w you on the parity of X and XP, but you are right that they are different approaches. . .and all our disagreements may come down to that. The OS X approach makes more sense to me and feels less intrusive.

See for example the "Ingratiating Alerts" box on this site comparingX and XP down on the bottom of this page:

http://www.xvsxp.com/dialogs/

If you get the time, please review the site and let us know where he goes astray.


ON Edit: You know I am a bad typist, speller and grammarian. So everytime I post I have to go in and tweak it.

[DS1]

57. if you go to the final score page and look at the comparisons

I think a lot of XPs strong points are collapsed into a single item, in the end skewing the results towards X.

Networking? Even if that is better in X, why not expand?
Legacy Software? This category would help XP if it were explored more

[emulatorloo]

58. Sorry I had to edit my reply because I type faster than I think

or you might say I don't think when I type :)

Because I really think the user experience is better for me on X and I didn't include that.

I will check the scores.

[DS1]

59. and user experience is really what it boils down to

it's a personal preference, and there's little point arguing over it. Like Coke/Pepsi, it kinda depends on what you started with.

Personally I'm ecstatic that Apple is doing well. If I could afford the switch plus all the software, I probably would. :shrug:

[emulatorloo]

68. Well, it is the experience too. . .

I agree, a lot of it is personal preference. . .there are some people who I know would never ever ever be happy using a Mac. . .and that is cool.

But to me it is really the experience too.

So I am going to make the kind of statement that causes PC users to say that Mac users are a "Cult" and "Fanatics."

It is the experience too. There are times when I get a real pleasure out of using a Mac. There is a real joy to the experience. . .like you get when you play a nice guitar that feels like it become a part of you as you play. Or when you finally get to drive your buddy's sports car down the highway on a sunny day. It is the joy of using anything that is really well thought out, well designed with the user in mind - a great set of golf clubs, a pen that fits just right in your hand. It just all comes together. Everything just works, it is an uninterrupted flow between user and computer.

I never feel that when I am using my Windows machine. . .sure there are some great applications that amazed me when I first used them and some of those amaze me still. There is some great hardware out there too. I have a lot of fun w my Win machine sometimes. I like my Win. But somehow the whole thing never gels like it does on the Mac.

Some columnist I read a long time ago who said something like, the Windows is a great tool, the Mac is a great assistant.

That being said, I will always have a Windows machine.

Anyway, the barrier to getting your feet wet w OS X may not be as high as you think. . .why not start out w an older machine and the apps that come with X? What is your main application?

[HuckleB]

60. Huh?

That's an interesting way to try and skew things toward XP. Sorry, I don't see that.

[DS1]

62. well, I do, what can I tell ya?

I listed two areas where I think the comparison should have been more categorized than it is. Take Networking for example, networking is HUGELY important, why not expand on that instead of a single score of networking? I see the page where networking is discussed, but in the end because all of networking is collapsed into one bullet point, the difference can only be 9 points. Now look at Applications - Misc, who cares about a freakin Calculator? Or Calendar for that matter? I bring these two up because where NETWORKING has a possible difference of nine points, trivial stuff like calculator and calendar add up to a possible point variance of 18. It's just not logical, this list is horribly weigthed. Hell, even XP wins in those categories, and I'm still bitching about it. That should tell you something too.

[DS1]

65. any comments on that from mac fans?

any at all?

[HuckleB]

71. actually...

for most of the people i know and work with, networking is meaningless...

[emulatorloo]

72. I guess I didn't have a problem w the networking section

cuz I thought his explan was good and fit w my experience.

Calendar I don't use much because I have never liked the idea of publishing my calendar on the net! But people who are into it, really like it.

It is nice to have a full featured calculator though.

I see yr point about weighting, though. I would be interested in seeing his response -- why don't you post over there and let's see what he says.

[DS1]

61. interestingly, that dialogs page contradicts itself

First it talks about how the OS should tell the user what happened, why it happened, and what to do about it.

Then it goes on to slam XP for indicating that a USB device has been plugged in, personally I think that feedback is necessary, leave the balloon alone and it will go away, but I'd rather see ~something~ when I plug a camera or scanner in than ~nothing~.

[emulatorloo]

69. Distinguishes between Trivial and Significant.

Not really a contradiction, he distinguishes between trivial and significant events. Which makes a lot of sense. Or maybe it is just the way the feedback occurs. . .no need for verbal announcements.

Plug in a mouse, nothing happens except the mouse starts working. No need for feedback other than the fact that you mouse works.

Plug in a camera, OS launches iPhoto for you to download your pictures.

[BlueJazz]

63. Macs have always sucked.

In fact when Ray Kroc first started McDonalds he searched for a name
that would be known for something "Inexpensive" and "Cheap" ..
He finally settled for Mac which was later changed to McDonalds.

[Spirochete]

64. I use PC's, myself...

but, having just fried the motherboard and processor on one of them, I just had to vote for William Pitt Rules. Just can't cast a vote for PC's - Intel nor AMD, since I'm pissed off at both of them.

[bleedingheart]

66. I laugh when people call my company asking if we write our application

for the mac... we always tell them politely to get a real computer...hahahahahaha

[emulatorloo]

70. And then I laugh when people mention your company

because you don't care about your customers and don't think about markets.

If you are an applications developer, you can make money on mac apps because tech support costs are low and the playing field is less competitive.

There was a recent Nielsen study that said Mac users are on the net more, more likely to buy on the net that Win Users and have more disposable income to spend on your company. . . .do a google you will find it.

Sadly, you are missing out on that market because of your attitude.

Don't tell me about small Apple market share, ie the % machines sold in a %. There are more macs out there than your think in the installed base.

Best Regards.

[alfredo]

67. Just found out Panther defrags on the fly. It checks for

fragmented files, then fixes them on the fly. You will notice the first time you open an app after install, the launch is delayed. After that they will open quickly.

Love the new finder. If you don't and want OS9's back, hit the oval button on the top right of the finder window. X11 apps open quickly now.

A good X11 app is Xaos. It is a fractal generator. If you open it in a terminal, the fractals will be rendered in ASCII.

[Zech Marquis]

74. Macs now, Macs forever!

I will be buying my 3rd Macintosh this winter--a new iBook G4, and by the end of 2004, a new desktop--depending on the iMac getting a G5 chip next summer and beyond.