"I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart."

[Zomby Woof]

"You broke my heart."

[Sugar Smack]

1. "You broke my heart."

:*

[GOPisEvil]

2. I watched that today as well.

One of the very few, if not the only, sequel that is better than the original.

[edbermac]

3. I've always taken care of you, Fredo...

Taken care of me? You're my kid brother, Mike and you take care of me?!

Great scene, great flick...

[Richardo]

15. "I'm not like everybody says, like *dumb*! I'm smart! ....

...I'm smart and I demand respect!"

[Zomby Woof]

33. That's what George said to Jeb!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. The Godfather movies are among the best American movies ever

made, IMHO...but oh boy are they sad. Each one gets farther and farther away from the original movie in terms of atmosphere...I can't watch them any more. My husband loves them; I have to leave the room now. I don't even want to hear the soundtrack any more.

An American Tragedy...they seem almost real, almost true.

:(

[Zomby Woof]

5. It wasn't a miscarriage, Michael

IT WAS AN ABORTION! Just like our marriage!

Now tell me that wasn't one of the most gut-wrenching scenes in cinematic history.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. It was, it sure was, ZW....

All those movies broke my heart...see my post above...*sigh*

[Zomby Woof]

7. Part III only broke my heart

Because of Sofia Coppola's bad acting. Damn Winona Ryder was too exhausted to sign on, and so Francis used nepotism (as he always does) to cast Michael's daughter. Argh!

"Daddy?" THUD.

Worst death scene ever in a major movie.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. I agree, she was lousy...

But look at the terrific director she turned into...That Bill Murray movie--set in Japan..."Lost in Translation." She did a hellova job there...she just can't act, IMHO...

[Zomby Woof]

12. Agreed

She inherited her father's directing chops.

Trivia: She was the baby who played Michael's son in the baptism scene at the end of the first movie!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

13. Good morning, ZombyWoof!

or should I say.....ZombyCalifornia? *snicker* Yes, I knew that she was the baby in that scene...No acting required there...And what a scene that was. It plays out in my mind every now and then...

[Zomby Woof]

16. That's CaliforniaZomby to you!

:P :hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

22. LOLOLOL........here we go AGAIN!?

I BEG your pardon, my dear CaliforniaZomby...I just got up and hadn't had my breakfast or my coffee yet...my brain's still asleep!

I think we are going to be very good friends...If we can have this much fun online, just think how good it will be in person...I'm so looking forward to meeting you and Nini...

:hug: :loveya:

[Richardo]

18. Quibble: It was Connie and Carlo's son, Michael...

Michael was, por supuesto, his Godfather.

[Zomby Woof]

21. RIGHT!

D'oh!

Thanks.

[Zomby Woof]

9. I wonder if anyone will think this is an LOTR thread

At first glance. :-)

[fujiyama]

10. LOL

I thought it said Frodo at first!

Godfather I and II - two of the greatest films ever. I've gotta watch each one atleast a few times a year.

[derby378]

23. "Grima Wormtongue sleeps with the fishes"

Hoo-hoo-hoo-ha-ha-ha!!

[Bucky]

11. Lucco Brazzi sleeps wit da fishes

AHHHH!! Who the fuck put a horse's head in my bed?

[Bunny]

14. Love I. Intrigued by II. Never made it through III.

The original had just everything. There is not one thing wrong with that movie. Nothing. I've always secretly wanted to be Apollonia, without getting blown up in the car, of course!

The second one was also great, I especially love DeNiro as young Vito. But as many times as I've seen it, I still can't quite figure out the plot, especially the Cuba stuff.

The third one? Dreck. Just dreck. I cannot sit through it. Pacino's hair makes me so nervous - what's he doing with that blondish spike-tip hairstyle? So un-Michael!

[Richardo]

17. The Cuba stuff is great. Especially the symbolism of slicing the cake...

...while discussing which American company will control what.

It is very subtle, though. The double-triple-quadruple cross regarding who tried to kill Michael is hard to follow.

[Bunny]

19. Okay, so it's not just me who is confused about that.

I didn't know if it was the Rosato brothers, Frank Pentangeli, Johnny Ola, Hyman Roth, and how the hell did Fredo get in the middle of it? I still can't figure it out!

The cake slicing scene is brilliant, isn't it?

[Zomby Woof]

27. Fredo felt entitled to be head of the Corleones

Since he was the next oldest after Sonny.

Michael was groomed to be the straight one in the family. Notice at the end scene where he was the college student - he was supposed to go into law or such, not be part of the family business. Sonny would be the heir, and Fredo his right arm.

This point was driven home in the first movie when Michael agreed to do the shooting at the restaurant. They all knew he was irrevocably into the family business once he did this.

Originally, Robert Redford was marked to play Michael. The character was not supposed to be Sicilian-looking, like Pacino. It would fit his "I am not like them, Kate" ethos.

Of course, everyone knew Fredo was too stupid to be head of the family, so he was given a cushy job in Vegas, which he couldn't possibly bungle, right?

Until Roth and Ola got their hooks in him, and helped him betray Michael.

[Zomby Woof]

25. Roth KNEW Michael offed Green

So he was exacting his own kind of retribution by taking advantage of Fredo's need to get even with Michael, and getting some Corleone money (just like the old days when he ran molasses with Vito) in the meantime.

Any time there is reluctance to partner up, retribution follows. Vito was shot because he wanted no part of the drug trade, and Michael was threatened because he wanted no part of the Cuban casino ring (and just didn't trust Roth since the Great Purge at the end of part 1).

Buy hey, it's not personal, it's just business. :D

[Richardo]

28. I like the fact that oranges signal an upcoming death or

..assassination attempt.

Every time you see an a character with an orange, he's about to die (or be attacked).

[Zomby Woof]

31. Or wearing orange

Or any orange object. Look for orange tablecloths, shirts, etc.

Remember that Connie's abusive husband Carlo was wearing an orange suit when Sonny kicked the shit out of him.

It's supposed to be the color of bad luck.

[Felix Mala]

29. Another good one: "Michael, we're bigger than US Steel!"

But with the same amount of help from the politicians. People forget that US interests had quite the banana republic in store for the people of Cuba before Castro. Now, I'm not saying Castro was better, but I am saying that the main reason he was successful was the extensive corruption running the island.

[Zomby Woof]

20. Part II

What it really came down to, was that Michael just didn't trust Roth enough to invest in the Havana casinos, even before the Castro guerilla blew himself up and solidified Michael's opinion that Cuba was a bad investment.

So with Johnny Ola's help, Roth cut a secret deal with Fredo, who not only had experience with his Vegas casinos (and there was a vacuum with Moe Green gone, hence Roth's angry swipe at Michael), but also that Fredo was still resentful of Michael (because Michael is younger) for being head of the family, and offing Green.

Roth needed Corleone money and influence to invest in Havana, and since he couldn't get it from Michael, he went behind his back. This is BAD and RUDE business behavior in the mafia, especially since Fredo went against his brother in the process.

Michael suspected it was Fredo all along (noticed how he tried goading Fredo into admitting he knew both Roth and Ola at the hotel), and got his proof when Fredo's loose lips revealed he DID know Roth and Ola when they were at the sex club.

See? Simple! :D

[Richardo]

24. That's the best 'splaination I've ever heard.

:wow:

[Bunny]

26. So, Roth tried to have him killed in his bedroom, before he went

to Havana? So that Fredo could be in charge and send Corleone money to Cuba? How did Roth know this before Michael went to Havana?

Thanks for the summary, BTW!

[Zomby Woof]

30. It was more of a hunch by Roth

Roth knew Michael ordered the Moe Green hit. Roth would have preferred to have Green be his Havana partner (this is implied in Roth's angry diatribe at Michael, when he called Green "a visionary").

Well, the next best thing to Green was to start a new venture with the Corleones, a la the molasses smuggling during Prohibition. If Michael had provided the money right away, he MAY have never been shot at - or if he were, Roth is in a win-win, because he had the money.

In any event, Roth wanted retribution for Green, so it isn't so much that he knew Michael would pull out of the deal, but that he knew it would be payback for Green, and yes, that Fredo would be eager to be his own man whether head of the family or not. Roth must have known Fredo was resentful of Michael killing Green (remember the confrontation in Part 1 - "Never go against the family!") Psychology is important when conducting business, lol.

Most of these conclusions are implied, and it is possible there are multiple valid explanations. Coppola and Puzo argued much about the script and knew there were plot holes. So it is up to us to be imaginative enough to fill the gaps with a minimum amount of contradiction, lol.

[Bunny]

32. Well, your imagination works for me ZombyWoof!

Excellent synopsis of the plot! :thumbsup:

I knew Hyman Roth was pretty pissed about Moe Green, just didn't see how it fit in to the rest of the story.