Windows fucking SUCKS.

[Guy Fawkes]

I'm sorry, but I've had enough. I was going to dual boot into windows (with Gentoo as my other OS) but now I see how bad of an idea that is.

Now, I've been using windows for a long time- since it came out, in fact. Only in recent years did I start experimenting with Linux. But already I see that Linux has become far superior to Windows.

I'll give you an example: Windows Longhorn will have the ability to open 2 or more instances of the same file at once. Unix has had this capability for over 20 years.

I'm going to start a new Gentoo installation now. I fear that Windows fucked up the last one.

[billyskank]

1. You installed Gentoo. I'm duly impressed.

Gentoo is too hard for me! I use Slackware.

[Guy Fawkes]

6. Gentoo has some great documentation...

and the fact that its (IMHO) the best distro of Linux currently available makes it worth the time and effort it takes to install.

And if you want to take the easy way out, you can always genkernel.

[SeanQuinn]

13. Thank you from a former member of the gentoo-doc team.

We worked really hard on it, like we do right now in ubuntu-doc as well. It's very rewarding, fun work.

[qnr]

18. Nice job on it too. I used Gentoo for a while, before becoming 100%

SMGL.

[billyskank]

14. Easy? Relatively speaking...

I tried installing it on my brother's PC a couple of months ago. Went for a stage 2 install, and used genkernel as you said. (Compiling a custom kernel, we were unable to get his network interface to work). We got that far, but got compilation errors when trying to install KDE from portage. That was too much (after many hours of installation), and since it was only an experiment we gave up.

The documentation is OK for me to follow (with a few minor screwups along the way, due to me not reading properly) but it's the last distro on earth that I'd recommend to a newbie.

Installing Slackware and then tweaking the config to compile a custom kernel is far easier imho... Plus, Slackware totally rules. :)

[qnr]

17. The documentation is colorful, that's for sure :)

[AndyTiedye]

12. Use the Source - Luke

Most gentoo packages are in source form, getting compiled automatically
upon installation. This also means that the source code is easily
available for examination. There are a lot more packages available
for gentoo than for slackware.

Gentoo can outperform other distros, because it is built for the kind
of CPU you have, rather than "generic x86".

I have been using kuroo as a package manager on gentoo. Nice.

[48pan]

2. Linux isn't ready for prime time.

If you're not a geek, it is unusable. Windows works fine.

[cprise]

4. This is plenty usable -

http://www.xandros.com

Several people in my family have been happily using it for years. It stopped the "help me fix my computer" calls.

Some distros are more usable than others. Much.

[48pan]

7. None of them are good for the non-technical

They don't run the familiar programs and don't recognize new peripherals. Most people haven't even figured out that they don't have to hit the return key at the end of a line in their word processors.

Home users are way stupider than you think. If you tell them to hit the enter key, they type E-N-T-E-R and wonder why it's not working. Older people can't see more than a few square inches of the screen at a time. The difference between a left click and a right click or single and double clicks baffles them.

When Johnny plugs in his Ipod, it's supposed to work.

Linux is fine for nerds.

[Guy Fawkes]

8. You don't seem to know about Mandrake.

Mandrake is MADE for people who don't even know how to turn their computers on. It supports hotplug/coldplug, making it extremely easy to install peripherals. It costs a few bucks to get the full version, but if you couple it with Cedaga, you should do just fine running any and all windows programs- without needing to know jack sh*t about computers.

[48pan]

11. Trust me... I know all about...

Linux and its various iterations. I run Mac too.

Linux is for nerds. It is not ready for prime time. Anything different makes most users insane. They learn exactly what they have to to run "thier" programs and any change of any kind is utterly baffling for most of them.

Trying to get most versions of Linux to work with your wireless network and to share printers with the Windows network is like... well, forget it. It's out of the question if you can't read a manual.

[cprise]

25. MacOS is worse... or it WILL be soon enough.

When it gets pirated and cracked, and people learn it doesn't work with their PC add-ons then Leopard will be nicknamed 'Leper'.

Then MacOS reputation for "compatability" will plummet. I'll hate to see it happen but its inevitable.

[cprise]

24. You don't know what you're talking about.

At least I gave an example with actual users.

[Kellanved]

30. Once set-up, all those things work with Linux.

Windows manages to fail recognizing a component even after it has been properly installed.

As to the "left-click / right-click" thing: that has not much to do with Linux/Windows. The myth of the graphical OS is pretty established, but the important stuff happens underneath.
Take MacOSX as an example: it is based on BSD, which is far more obscure than Linux.
Nor is windows that easy to work with as you make it sound. Installing updates; sometimes the registry needs some tweaking, or a particular command is command line only (and I do much prefer the bash when it comes to command lines).
And that doesn't even count in the trouble a single mail can cause.


Not that I want to bash Windows; there truly is a perfectly sound explanation for about any odd behavior of Windows. Usually it is compatibility, quite often compatibility with old bugs.
I respect the Windows programmers for producing a running system nonetheless, but it is long past time to completely start from scratch again with the Windows API.
Proprietary extensions and redefinitions (read the MSDN documentation - it is completely insane) are no longer a sound way to keep the developers.

[AndyTiedye]

16. Ubuntu is easier to install than Windoze XP was

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/

Windows works fine.

I'm always seeing Windows users complaining about the Blue Screen of Death
and what SP2 did to their machine, and then there are the viruses.

For a really non-technical user, I'd recommend a Mac.

If that's too pricy, get a PC and install Ubuntu.

[qnr]

19. Yawn. n/t

[wtmusic]

3. A week with Mac OSX and you'll never look back nt

[Initech]

9. I can agree with that!

I bought my Powerbook last September and I'll never get another Windows PC again!

[qnr]

20. Mac is nice, but it just isn't for me. n/t

[Deja Q]

23. OSX = FreeBSD. Free for PC.

Many people haven't been looking back for a long time. :D

[Moochy]

5. Linux / OSX / Windows

For me, Linux is great, and as a Java developer I am way more effective using an IDE on Windows xp, Safari & IE on the mac(shudder) and using linux or solaris for the server code.

We have to use all three major OS's to be sure everything's kosher for these web apps.

I've seen the Integrated Development Environment (IDE) intelliJ running on linux and its way slower feeling than on Windows.
Probably some malconfigured X86 server, but who knows.

Plus, the practice of deploying your app on 3 different operating systems keeps your code nice and portable.

Java: Write once, debug everywhere.

[McKenzie]

10. dual booting with Windows and Linux can cause conflicts.

My local Linux User Group warned me about that and advised installing Linux on another machine on its own. The Xandros distro seems to co-exist quite happily with Windows though.

However, I have so much Windows software I'm reluctant to use Linux as my main OS. I also do loads of video editing and Linux isn't as good as the Windows 3rd party utilities for that purpose in my experience; others might disagree.

I also have my doubts over some Linux distros. Sure, all are based upon similar kernels but the source code isn't tested in as rigorous an environment as Windows. People debug the distros. Odd version numbers are best avoided though because they are beta software waiting for debugging.

If I could get my act together I'd go for a Mac. One, because it is a bloody good OS and two, it is superior to anything for multimedia/graphics work.

[qnr]

21. I do disagree, I've been editing videos professionally with Linux for

years. The Windows apps I've tried have been a poor substitute. That's just my opinion though :)

[McKenzie]

26. thnx 4 this

If I could edit video successfully with Linux I'd be tempted, largely to get away from Billy Boy and his empire. Which proggies do you use for editing?

Thnx

[cprise]

28. I've done OK with Kino

...but its at the level of, say, iMovie on the Mac.

The powerhouse editors for Linux are Cinelerra and MainActor.

[AndyTiedye]

22. Dual-Booting Works Fine

The only caveat is that if you hibernate the Windows installation,
and then boot up Linux, don't write on your Windows filesystem from
Linux.
It's OK to mount it read-only from Linux, but shut the Windows system
down completely before writing to its filesystems from Linux.

I have set up dual-boot systems using Gentoo, Debian, Ubuntu,
Slackware and Red Hat Linux without any problems. I have also
done it with several flavors of BSD Unix, but that is somewhat
trickier.

[McKenzie]

27. good info' there

I hardly touch Linux these days, mainly because I'm used to the Windblows point and shoot capability. Linux needs a bit more than that as you undoubtedly know.

Now I feel like a lazy, guilt-ridden schmuck! Maybe I should try harder as my schoolmaster used to say.

thnx

[AndyTiedye]

15. You May Be Able To Rescue Your Gentoo Install

It is possible that Windoze overwrote the bootstrap.
You may be able to put it back without reinstalling.

I have my work laptop set up for hextuple boot:

Gentoo (the one I use most of the time)
Ubuntu (easiest install by far. Default install includes open office)
Slackware 9.0 (never upgraded due to USB kbd problems w/ 9.1)
Debian Sarge (lots of packages)
Red Hat 7.3 (for some ancient software we're using at work).
Windoze 2000 (to configure Exchange mail filters and configure cryptographic tokens)

[Elidor]

29. I just love all this geektalk

I wish I was a big enough geek to install Linux. But unless it would run all of my Adobe apps and sound apps and synthesizer stuff, it'd be a waste of time.

Please carry on with the conversation. It just sounds fucking kewl!

(God, how sad to be found wanting for geekdom! I'm not geeky enough!)