I Saw A Book About Various World Religions at the Supermarket

[GiovanniC]

It was called "Why So Many Gods?", a title which intrigued me. I opened it up and it was a very colorful book with lots of large headings and a very "aimed at teens" feel to it. A quick skim showed that it had almost every world religion you can think of, and briefly explained the beliefs of each group.

I was just about to get it, when I noticed a section at the end of each religion synopsis called "The Trick".

"The Trick" explains why each religion is full of shit.

Except Christianity. For the Christian relgions (Baptist, Catholic, Protestant, etc.) it says "No trick here."

For, say, Hinduism, it says something to the effect of "Hinduism believes in many different gods, but there is only one God, which is why Hinduism is wrong."

For Judaism it says something like, "You can't just believe in part of the Bible. Either it's all true, or none of it is, and since we know that the Bible is all true, Judaism is wrong."

For Atheism, it says something like, "Atheists don't believe in God, but God exists, therefore Atheism is wrong."

The entire book was full of these proclamations denouncing all religions using lots of false logic and circular reasoning. I can tell based on the book's design that it will sucker in a lot of people, especially younger people. I'm 25, but if I hadn't read a few sections pretty carefully I probably would have wasted my money on it. It looked, at first glance, to be an easy-to-read reference guide on the various religions.

I shudder to think how many people will be suckered in by this book.

[patrice]

1. I would have bought it.

It's good to understand the minds of those with whom I disagree (so strongly).

[GiovanniC]

4. Just From Browsing the Book I Understand the Minds Without Paying

Their minds: If it doesn't agree with us, it's wrong.

How do you know? Cuz we said so.

[patrice]

9. You can never know enough about the opposition.

[GiovanniC]

12. I Don't Know What More I Could Gather From This Book

Honestly, it just didn't seem worth it to give these people money to get back something like, "Buddhism is wrong because they do not believe that salvation comes from God."

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. Maybe, from a used book store. Or loaned from a library.

No way in hell I'll give THOSE fuckers money.

[Deja Q]

59. What minds?

The entire Christian Bible is filled with doublespeak, contradictions, and hypocrisy. Never mind how its followers spin an already overly spun collection of fairy tales into something even more grandiose. That's the trick of Xianity.

[ihaveaquestion]

2. You should complain

to the store management and demand that it be taken off the shelves! Point out the offending statements and tell them how awful they are. They may not even be aware that they're in the book. Sounds like they're well hidden. If they don't agree, then complain to the store owners. If it's a chain the corporate headquarters should be notified, in any case. There might be copies throughout all their stores and they may all have been taken in. Which store is it?


If you get no satisfaction, post the details and maybe letters from others can be generated. Theocracy Watch might also be interested. http://www.theocracywatch.org/

[datasuspect]

3. no

that just don't right right: "demand that it be taken off the shelves!"

isn't that EXACTLY what reactionaries and fundamentalists do? except they "burn" instead or "demand."

[Bridget Burke]

6. The customer might point out that the book might offend other customers.

Unless the particular grocery store is really in the back of the beyond.

[datasuspect]

11. it's the risk you

take in a culture that at least aspires to the pretense of free speech.

just like i sometimes feel like i have the right to say what i want, so do they.

but there is a larger market for fundamentalist christian vomit: it's only because there are so many christians and "lost people."

[Bridget Burke]

16. I, personally, would not have recommended the removal of the book.

However, I, personally would have taken the book to the store manager & pointed out the offending chapter. After I'd called it an offensive piece of ignorant crap, I would have promised not to return.

[ihaveaquestion]

18. Yes

I have no problem be labled a liberal "reactionary." IMO, there's been too little "reaction" from the left of late.

From the description, it sounds like a subtle form of hate-lit.

The management should at least be made aware of it.

[datasuspect]

20. didn't you know

you're probably in the belly of the beast and it's gonna be a long time (if ever) before this christian stain on the body politic goes away.

they laugh at you, they pity you, they wonder why you hate god.

and all this because you have the temerity to think for yourself, to question, and because you refuse to blindly hate.

save yourself. make your own garden. hate to sound like i have a siege mentality, but i do.

last night on the simpsons they had a parental warning because the episode contained scenes of gay marriage.

and this is in a major teevee market in the north, not the bible belt.

just keep your head down and wear clean socks.

[GiovanniC]

23. I Hate To Agree, But I Agree

If the book was one that looked at all the religions and said that they were all crap because they believed in something that doesn't exist, it wouldn't be sold. But in this case, this book just condemned Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, Christian Science, Jahovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Atheism, Confucianism, Rastafarianism, Spiritualism, et cetera, et cetera.

So it's okay. As long as it doesn't attack Christianity.

All the other religions are just fake anyway, so who cares? That's the attitude that most people have around here, which basically means that they agree with the book.

[ihaveaquestion]

24. Sorry, but I reject such defeatist talk.

When we do nothing they win. Can you explain how you win by not trying?

Besides this isn't about the "body politic." A supermarket is a commercial operation and to be successful they must be responsive to the sensitivities of customers. If the only customers who voice their opinions are the xtian radicals, then those are the customers they will be sensitive to. We must speak up and let folks know we exist and our opinions and feelings are just as important as anyone elses.

[datasuspect]

29. news flash

they won.

sorry, but if i keep bashing my head against the wall either my head or the wall is gonna give.

one man's defeatism is another's being realistic

and if you haven't noticed, freethinkers are in the minority: they know we exist and they know we are their enemy and they will use every form of smear, discredit, and lying to make you look like an idiot.

the bullies own the playground.

you can tell them your point of view, but if you do it in a rational non-blustery manner (something that a progressive might do) rather than in an emotive, whining, grandiose, religious manner (something a regressive christian might do) guess which wheel gets the grease.

[ihaveaquestion]

33. With your attitude, what do you get out of posting to DU?

Are you just griping? Or is this your last thread of connection to the few rational individuals in the country.

Seriously, I don't get why you even care to read or post here.

[datasuspect]

37. what's with the attitude?

just because i don't think like you, i shouldn't read or post here?

did it ever occur to you that not every person shares your bushy-tailed enthusiasm and go-getterism and that they might share progressive/liberal ideologies possibly similar to yours?

[ihaveaquestion]

42. No "attitude" intended.

I didn't question your ideology at all. Unless it's a put on, your politics are obviously progressive/liberal. It just seems to me that if you've given up, you wouldn't be interested in a message board like this one and in particular posts such as this one. After all, your first post was one suggesting that nothing can or should be done.

[datasuspect]

44. oh i think SOMETHING(S) can be done

but they are certainly NOT within traditional channels. and no, protesting is not what i have in mind.

[ihaveaquestion]

47. What do you have in mind?

What is it that can be done that isn't protesting?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[datasuspect]

46. and please don't even go anywhwere near questioning my

politics. there ain't no "put on" here. you don't even know me. you should try that first before you go out on a limb like you have today.

anyway, i'm not the one with a disabled profile.

see those kinds of statements are pretty hurtful aren't they?

[ihaveaquestion]

53. Whoa, there. No insult intended.

It's just my suspicious nature to wonder about the intentions of folks who's posts come off as negative as yours do. I wonder about trolls attempting to spread discension in the ranks. Paranoia on my part.

And, about my disabled profile, it took me a while to figure out what you meant. I had checked 'yes' to hide the profile and should have checked 'no.' My bad.

No, I'm not hurt. I think we might have a basic misunderstanding of each other's motives. I'll leave it at that for now.

Peace. :hippie:

[datasuspect]

54. fair enough

peace

[Theres-a]

36. A warning on the Simpsons!?

:wow: "Jesus H. Christ on a raft!", as my gramma used to say.I'm sick of this theocracy crap.Yes we were founded on freedom of religion,but not freedom to practice only one!!!Freedom to pray in whatever way you choose right?

[datasuspect]

40. not sure if i should post or read here anymore

as i was informed further down, but here goes:

yes, a parental advisory on the simpsons. they used to use that device for disturbing movies/news stories.

now they use it to warn people that a show has scenes of gay marriage.

THINK what this says. what they are equating gay marriage to.

[Theres-a]

45. That's exactly what disturbed me.

Hurtful.And on such a mainstream venue.Doesn't bode well for the future of this country from where I'm sitting.

[GiovanniC]

5. There Was a Section, I Swear to God

That was about fanatical Islam that had the half moon with an Uzi next to it.

[youspeakmylanguage]

8. Doesn't work...

I ranted once to a Best Buy store manager when I found a DVD copy of "The Birth Of A Nation" in their family section. He looked at me like I was from another planet and stated that he had no control over the product on the shelves and that I should contact their corporate office. I then watched him walk over to a couple who brought in a broken vacuum cleaner and promptly kiss their asses from one side of the store to another.

I used to work for Best Buy, so the whole incident didn't suprise me.

[Tsiyu]

13. AS long as they'll carry F911

They can carry any other shit they like. What if someone (and I'm sure many did) complained about all Michael Moore movies? They wouldn't remove them (due to $$$$$$$$$$$) but if they did, you would be pissed that they took his movies off their shelves to appease a fundy.

Same principle. Applied to all.

[youspeakmylanguage]

14. If you think comparing MM's work to a KKK propaganda film...

...being left in the family section is a valid comparison then this discussion is over, as far as I'm concerned.

The only redeeming value of "Birth" is the historical significance of its artistic direction and production values. It has no business being released as a mainstream DVD product.

Would you register a complaint if you found a copy of "Mein Kampf" in the children's section of your local library?

<I'm not sure if "Mein Kampf" is spelled correctly. For obvious reasons I'm not going to Google it at work to find out...>

[Tsiyu]

17. Sorry, I had no idea what the film was about

I'm not real "up" on the KKK literature. There are a lot of films without redeeming value being distributed. And frankly, your tone is not warranted, but whatever, ysml.


I WOULD have complained that it was in the family section, but again, free speech is free speech. I'd rather know where my enemy is coming from. Makes it easier to expose the weaknesses.

[youspeakmylanguage]

19. "I'm not real "up" on the KKK literature..."

I'm not real "up" on the KKK literature. There are a lot of films without redeeming value being distributed. And frankly, your tone is not warranted, but whatever, ysml.

You're obviously not "up" on the history of American cinema, but that doesn't stop you from interjecting your own half-baked opinions with a snotty tone. Or insinuating that I would be "up" on the KKK. That isn't really appreciated either, but I believe in your right to speak your mind. It goes a long way to demonstrating personal character.

Roger Ebert can give you a primer on the historical significance of the film, but ask yourself it he would agree that it should be stocked in the family section of a big box retailer.

[Tsiyu]

21. Okay, whatever has pissed you off, it was not MY intent this morning

and no, my comment - the one you repeated in your title - was not intended to denigrate you or imply anything about you. I was indicating that I, PERSONALLY am not well-read on the subject of the KKK. Do you want me to hang my head in shame over that? It's only one of many subjects - like the history of American cinema - that I am relatively clueless about. Sorry I'm not as well-versed as you on that subject.


AS for the Constitution, I know about that. And when people start clamoring for censorship. I will stand up and speak my mind. You know nothing of my character. The fact that you would attempt to assault mine when i was merely stating an opinion ....well, some folks posts speak volumes about their social skills...

[youspeakmylanguage]

25. If you weren't well versed, why did you comment at all?

This discussion has nothing to do with the Constitution, as neither the 1st Amendment nor any other dictates what products a responsible retailer should or should not carry.

As for your "apology", we can argue all day about how you phrased your posts and what you insinuated therein. I'll assume it was an honest mistake. Suffice to say you may want to be more careful in the future.

[Tsiyu]

28. Why? Are you going to spank me?

Friend, this is the Lounge. If you want to get in a verbal Battle Royale with someone, may I suggest GD?

WE have lighter discussions around here, where anyone with a keyboard can weigh in. Not just the "experts" like yourself.

Obviously you are the only person, in your own mind( with that Roger Ebert Cinema Degree no less) who is qualified to speak about movies, so maybe you want a crown? What?

Get over yourself and lighten up.

[datasuspect]

30. it has everything to do with the the constitution and freedom of speech

the retailer can exercise those protections as he/she/it deems fit.

[youspeakmylanguage]

35. The 1st amendment bans government censorship...

...which has nothing to do with what a retailer chooses to stock.

Please provide an example of one retailer that was forced, by court order, to stock a product based on a 1st amendment argument.

If bookstores were required to stock every half-baked book known to man, each Barnes & Noble would be a 20 story skyscraper.

[datasuspect]

38. although the government

gurantees that protection, any individual person or entity can exercise that liberty.

anyway, you seem too much like a bully.

not very nice talking to you, not nice reading what you wrote.

have a nice one.

nice.

[youspeakmylanguage]

39. Sorry I stepped on your toes...

...apparently if you stick up for yourself in this thread, you're a bully.

...gurantees that protection, any individual person or entity can exercise that liberty.

How does this apply to our discussion?

[datasuspect]

41. sometimes it's not what you say

it's how you say it.

and i am guilty of this too.

[Tsiyu]

48. Again, you are in THE LOUNGE

And yes, you are a bully....but not for speaking your opinion - for jumping down people's throats when they express theirs, for indicating that only "experts" should have opinions, and for generally appearing to be unable to carry on "political discourse" ( funny how your blog talks about how "political discourse " is important, yet you stifle it here by insulting and bullying.)

Are you part of the problem, friend? Do a search for my past posts, Dude. You'll find plenty of discourse long before you popped up here with your "bad 'tude."

Again, GET OVER YOUR BAD SELF and try to get along with others. It will go a long way toward improving social skills in your life....

[datasuspect]

50. it needed to be said

but i can't get worked up like i could when i was younger. then i would need stronger bp meds.

[Tsiyu]

52. Thanks

I've been through too much "real life" bullying, I guess, so I actually was grinning when I posted that, even though my heart is sad over being "preached at" in that way.

Thank you so much for having my back. Have a great one, datasuspect!

[youspeakmylanguage]

58. Sure. Thanks for the memories...

*plonk*

[tigereye]

7. yikes I hate that kind of limited thinking

the arrogance of the folks who put that stuff out is astounding.

[Patiod]

10. Scary stuff - the "Joy of Sects" is the book you were expecting

Unfortuntately, it looks as if it's out of print, but check your library. Interesting look at the world's religions, without an "angle".

Still, it must be nice and easy to have such a black-and-white world view.

[GiovanniC]

15. I Really Liked That It Seemed to Be in an Easy-to-Understand Format

and language.

A lot of the books on comparative religion that I have are not very useful as a quick reference to get a brief snapshot of how, say, Shiite Muslims are different from Sunni Muslims, or what is different between Shinto and Buddhism.

That's what I thought this book was at first, so I'm glad I read a little first.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Yep.. Grocery stores and wal*mart carry a lot of Xian "literature" for

some bizarre reason.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. That's really dishonest.

In other words, typical.

[Tsiyu]

51. It seems like every grocery store has these Xtian selections

and I'm sure many have been misled by the seemingly "mainstream" titles.

Sickening, really. The fundies are in all-out assault mode. The best we can do is try to counter their bigotry by loudly and frequently putting them in their place as just "one" religion of many.

[MountainLaurel]

31. Subterfuge and mindf*cking

Are the only way these cretins can get new converts.

[Theres-a]

32. I have a recommendation for you

The book is "God's Breath".It's a compilation of texts with comments by different people.It doesn't have any slant either,that I could find.I hope you check it out.

[ihaveaquestion]

34. Check out the collection at the UUA Bookstore

http://www.uua.org/bookstore/

Lots of books on liberal religion and other liberal topics!

[Theres-a]

43. Thanks, I will.

:hi:

[Catshrink]

55. "You can't just belive in part of the Bible..."

This is very interesting: ""You can't just believe in part of the Bible. Either it's all true, or none of it is, and since we know that the Bible is all true, Judaism is wrong."

Isn't that what the Fristians do? They ignore the parts about helping the poor, etc. What about the part "let he who is blameless among you cast the first stone?" That really fits the family values repugs.

[GiovanniC]

56. Not Just That

But this book seemed to say that all Christianity is good and okay. But most Southern Baptists will tell you that Catholics are going to hell. And since the Bible is in some cases contradictory, it is impossible for it to ALL be true, so according to their logic, all Christianity is wrong.

[Catshrink]

57. That too.

The Fristians are "proof-texters" meaning that they take a verse from the Bible to bolster their point of view and ignore the fact that there are others that negate that. They pick and choose what they will believe but like this book said, say that other religions can't have it both ways.

I believe that the Bible is a guide and open to interpretation. Guess that makes me a commie fag heathen destined to burn in hell (at least as Fred Phelps might put it).

[NMMNG]

65. Cafeteria plans

The fundies/fristians love utilizing the cafeteria plan approach to the Bible. They'll say stuff like "you can't just believe in part of the Bible" and "the Bible is inerrant" etc. But they choose a very narrow range of what to adhere to, what to enforce upon others, and leave a huge chunk ignored. Judging not, helping the poor, not wearing clothing made of two different kinds of cloth, not wearing gold jewelry, praying in a closet rather than in public, eschewing riches, etc. all get forgotten under the fundie/fristian cafeteria plan.

[ghostsofgiants]

60. Why would atheism be in a book of religions?

[GiovanniC]

61. Because There Is an Agenda Being Promoted

[ghostsofgiants]

62. Haha, makes sense

[4_Legs_Good]

63. LMAO, now THAT is sinister

Wow! I would have been skeptical because of finding it in a supermarket, but then had I looked at it I probably would have fallen for it.

Anyway good eye! "The Catch" I love it.

david

[GiovanniC]

64. Here's the Amazon.com Description

"This book covers over 100 world religions, secular worldviews, cults, and occult practices from a Christian viewpoint with tolerance and civility. It tells the basic beliefs, short history, important aspects, and it identifies the religions in pop culture-all in a teen-magazine style of writing. The goal of this book is to educate teens to be able to identify the religions they come in contact with daily. All content has been reviewed by experts in Christian theology."


Here is a great review, too:

Do you know what a "presupposition" is? It's a statement based on a whole bunch of other beliefs that are not explicitly stated. So if I say that, for example, Judiasm "doesn't make sense" because Jews have to either accept Jesus as God or as a crazy person (this ridiculous statement actually came from this book!), I am hiding my presupposition that those are my only two choices. This book is FILLED with this type of assumptive logic. In order to accept any of the authors oppinions (stated as facts, of course), we must accept all of the biased beliefs that they conviently fail to share with us. The danger here, is that the book is directed at Christian teens, who may fail to effectively discriminate between the author's oppinions and fact. Hence, they may be tempted to adopt the author's arguments as valid without actually testing them. Where did Jesus ever teach that people shouldn't think for themselves?

Of course, inherent in all of this flawed reasoning is the basic presupposition that ONLY Christian beliefs are legitimate. Does the arrogance of this statement scare anyone? It should. To me, it smacks of The Crusades. Every chapter begins with a surprisingly objective (though often incorrect as other reveiwers have pointed out) overview of a given religion. "Cool", I thought, "Here is a Christian writer actually offering his readers an understanding of other faiths. I guess he must be pretty secure in his own faith." But...then you get to the end of each chapter and a section called "The Trick". Here's where it gets ugly. This is where the authors demonstrate their incredibly limited logical skills to basically dismiss the faiths of millions of others based on the thinnest reasoning imaginable. Oops! So much for the authors security in their own faith. Didn't their mothers ever teach them that you can't build yourself up by knocking others down? Again, the arrogance is nothing short of astounding to me. Imagine thinking that you could that casually determine that all of those millions of people, some of them extremely devout, are all basically, well, wrong. Do the words "Heil Hitler" come to mind?

What can I say? This kind of stuff, while seemingly innocuous enough, is the basis for broad intolerance. And intolerance is one of the greatest sins that Jesus preached against.


Another:

The whole book is based on one dangerous assumption. If there is a God he must be the God of the Bible. The book even references Pascal's Wager! Pascal's Wager is shaking reasoning at best. The reasoning the author gives for not believing Sikhism is "It just doesn't make much sense." Just because a Christian can't explain it doesn't mean it can't be explained. The "trick" for agosticism is basically, there is no point in believing you can't be sure about God's existance, so you might as well believe because it may save your soul. Again, this is based on the assumption that Christ must be the way, so don't consider anything else.

I would not recommend anyone to buy this book, Christian or not. It is a baised point of view that gives no validity to anything other than Christianity. ...