What contributes most to a good (or bad) movie or TV show?

[Bossy Monkey]

It always amazes me when a movie or TV program (not counting 'reality' shows of course) works at all because there's just so many things that have to go right, and it would be so easy for any of them to go wrong. As such, I tend to give a break to any film or show that moves me at all, having watched so much crap over the years that when something is good at all, I tend mostly to be surprised more than anything.

I'd do a poll, but obviously the answer would be All of the above or It depends. (Also Rabrrrrrr would be telling me how direction and writing are both intrinsically linked and inherently separate.:)) But watching movies and more especially TV (and more especially still 80% of the programming on the Sci-Fi Channel), I can't help reflect on what the hell makes a drama or comedy not work. Could a better director have made this dialogue believable? Would better actors make this premise less ridiculous? As a bitter, bitter, bitter, failed writer, I blames the writers.

Here's what would have been on the poll:
Direction
Writing: premise
Writing: plot
Writing: characters
Writing: dialogue
Acting
Chemistry
Casting (same as acting in some ways, but you know when they just get the wrong person for the part and however well s/he might act, it's still wrong. Young Jake Lloyd, I'm looking at you.)
Music (When it's really bad or extremely good, it can be the difference maker)
It's all Tom Cruise's fault

Of course, you're welcome to come up with other factors or criteria. If you say All of the Above, well and good. If your answer is more like It depends, though, it would be nice if you would specify which, whether or when.

[Merrick]

1. I was gonna say what Bill Hicks said...

Boobs.

TV exec: "And what will these boobs do?"

Hicks: "I dunno... jiggle?

TV exec: "I like it."

[Bossy Monkey]

2. Well, it rules out "My Dinner With Andre," which can't be a bad thing...

Kidding, I never actually saw "Andre"

[Richardo]

6. Then you missed Wallace Shawn's topless scene....

:scared:

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

3. The writing to start with

if the writer is given any leeway from the producers or other higher ups involved in the project. If whats written on the page is crap the movie to tv show stands no chance from the get go.

Acting/Casting comes next. If the people performing the actions and speaking the words either have no chemistry or little to no talent a finely written script can be ruined.

A good director can make up for casting/acting to a degree. A bad director can only hurt the production either because of a lack of visual flair or style, which might also deal with the DP.

As an aspiring editor, who would like to write on the side, I feel that how a project is cut together can severely help or hinder the projects chance for success. Editing that isn't "invisible," whether because of mistakes or because of overly flashy techniques, can take away from the story, which is what counts the most.

I count music and sound effects in with the post production elements I mentioned above. Neither of those should be so noticeable that it becomes distracting.

In the end, for me, a good story will suck me in. If the dialogue isn't perfect but the story is intriguing I will be sucked in (Episode III). If the visuals and sound are incredibly impressive but nothing else iinterests me (WoTW) then the project is a successful summer blockbuster but will be a forgettable film come next summer, if not sooner. If everything works then it is an absolute pleasure to spend my time and money on.

[Bossy Monkey]

4. I keep thinking that somebody ought to teach a film school course by

taking apart and putting back together really, really bad TV shows. Maybe screenwriters and directors could learn something from fixing, say, an episode of "Beyond Belief," the Fox traffic accident frequently replayed on Sci Fi. It's one of the things that most makes me think: Is it the acting? Is it the writing? Is it the ludicrous premise?

Good luck on your editing/ writing ambitions. Good way to get into directing, too!

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

5. It's definitely beneficial to learn what not

to do. Thats one of the few important lessons I learned in the screenwriting classes I took. The first class I took was a complete waste of time. The professor regurgitates Sid Field, which I read and was not to particularly impressed by. In the second class I took we read McKee which was helpful to put into words what makes a good story.

Any recommendations other than "Beyond Belief" for what would be good to look at. I watch quite a bit of TV but only recently started watching and loving entire series. When I watch something and don't like it, I usually don't bother continuing to watch it. That might be what would be helpful in learning from the mistakes of others.

As I said in my last post I believe it is a combination of all of these things. The more each one goes wrong the worse the project turns out.

Thanks, I've always given thought to whether I'd like to direct or not and I might someday.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. The worst sitcom I ever saw

was an early 1970s offering called The Corner Bar: stereotypical characters, lame jokes, poorly staged.

I think it lasted about three episodes, and even that was too long. I became disenchanted with a certain guy because he really liked that show and was disappointed when it was canceled.

If that misbegotten bit of trash is ever released on DVD, then I'll know they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

9. 95%, if not more, of sitcoms

could be studied for their sheer crappiness. I even fail to see the "great" ones (i.e. Friends, Everybody Loves Raymond) as anything special and actually consider them to be quite crappy.

[Bossy Monkey]

8. A good example that's on all the time (eg now) is Murder She Wrote

Generally it's a great show, but there are always one or two off notes that really grate. Part of this is because their target audience was, how to put this nicely, a little undiscriminating. Part of it is that it was just on so frickin' long and eventually the writers were going to run out of ways to get Jessica's nephew Grady into scrapes. But anyway, a show that is very professionally mounted, competently written and acted and with a great star that nevertheless manages at least one foolish casting boner per episode might also be helpful. It's on the Bio channel four hours a day (two of those repeats), and also A&E pretty frequently.

In terms of just miserable bad, there was Sci Fi's adaptation of Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea series, called "Legends of Earthsea." As Mrs. LeGuin said, "They've made Ged a honky!" If you can get a hold of it for free, do so. Big splahy glitzy production that a) had practically nothing to do with the books; b) was atrociously miscast; and c) took the "let's put in Irish music! Everybody loves Irish music!" approach to scoring a fantasy piece. A stinkburger.

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

10. As someone who enjoys sci-fi movies

I have never really gotten into sci-fi tv, with the exception of The X-Files. I never much watched the Sci-fi channel but it sure seems like most of what they put on is crap.

[Bossy Monkey]

11. It's a thing of perpetual bewilderment to me why they show so much crap

or why they find it so difficult to come up with good, or even interesting, programming. Offhand, I'd guess they need to double their budget for writers and half the budget for everything else. Until then, though, I think they should impose the Twilight Zone rule. They're Viacom; they own all the Twilight Zone episodes. I think they should show nothing at all but Twilight Zone unless and until they come up with something at least half as good as the worst TZ episode. That'll get rid of 90% of their programming except as you say for The X-Files, which they've already gotten rid of anyway.

[LeftyDarthBrodie]

12. Honestly, I fail to see the purpose of a sci-fi "channel"

Yes, every demographic has their place to retreat to on the cable dial but why not invest in some gret writers and give their shows decent budgets and have Viacom put the shows on CBS or one of the other twenty tv channels they own. Hell, come up with something and sell it to HBO or whichever pay movie channel is owned by Viacom.

I'm not a huge Joss Whedon fan but that man crap and his cult following will watch him. Sign that man up and give him a shot not to be treated like garbage. Maybe Chris Carter can come up with a good new idea for the first time in over a decade.

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. But they are intrinisically linked and inherently separate!

Unless you're Ron Howard, then they're separate, and linkned badly.

Thanks for props!

:woohoo:

I like when I'm mentioned.